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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Annelot View Post
    Ok so I tried playing some PvP! Not the world vs world and I went 30 points in arcane/air and took precision stats in ma gear. I went with scepter/dagger and I dine ''ok''. But sometimes I just get killed in seconds!

    Any idea on a better spec?
    Do this:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fEEQ...joGbNuak1MEZWA

    This build takes place mostly in fire(for damage) and lightning(mobility) attunement, you deal relatively big ammounts of damage while still having a decent HP pool / defenses. Its essential that you have Fire/lightning bound to an easily reachable key since the following will happen rather often.

    Ride the Lightning to the Opponent, Arcane Wave + Updraft simultaneously to trigger vulnerability and get knocked back.
    During the knockback switch to Fire and once you land Burning Speed to the opponent again (might need to adjust the distance a little before doing so but you are usually in exactly the right one.
    Ring of Fire, Fire Grab, Arcane Blast and standard Dagger play from here.

    Im not set on the Armor / Weapon Runes though

  2. #662
    I know i'm a tad late but I had to throw it out there.
    If you've reached lvl 50 you should know how a class works. If by the time you hit 80 you still don't realise that you can't weaponswap (and lose versatility due to this) you're playing stupid. Yea D/D requires you to be in melee, yes you can't swap to another weapon to deal ranged damage. Want to fix this easily go d/f or sc/d.

    If you're not willing to sacrifice d/d for another weaponset not being versatile is on you.

    Same goes for ppl not optimising their pets as rangers, or refusing to grab "defensive" skills as a warrior.

    P.S. with all the talk of wars/rangers/thieves doing more damage than eles I'd love to see stats about it. I wasn't under the impression that the gap was that big. Yes warriors can do tons of damage with HB but aside from that GS is lackluster. Rangers can deal great condition damage but it's pretty tough to keep them up solo on a boss. Thieves got amasing burst but once their cd's to restore initiative are down their output drops.
    I personally was under the impression that eles have some of the best sustained damage there is.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    If you're not willing to sacrifice d/d for another weaponset not being versatile is on you.

    Same goes for ppl not optimising their pets as rangers, or refusing to grab "defensive" skills as a warrior.
    One problem: Warrior with a greatsword and any other weapon set, or ranger completely without the pet is still massively more powerful, in terms of damage, survivability and just plain ease of play then the best elementalist who's not playing either d/d or staff. That's the reality of the class at the moment, and all the arguments that "it's your fault losers" aren't going to change that fact. You're either staff for support and AoE, double daggers for damage or versatile but junk in all categories.

    Other classes never have to make such a choice at this point of the game due to weapon swap and class viability. We have to.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    One problem: Warrior with a greatsword and any other weapon set, or ranger completely without the pet is still massively more powerful, in terms of damage, survivability and just plain ease of play then the best elementalist who's not playing either d/d or staff. That's the reality of the class at the moment, and all the arguments that "it's your fault losers" aren't going to change that fact. You're either staff for support and AoE, double daggers for damage or versatile but junk in all categories.

    Other classes never have to make such a choice at this point of the game due to weapon swap and class viability. We have to.
    Again I'd love to see stats about being massively more powerful. I doubt that in a 5minute fight the warrior will have done 100k ranger 90k and the ele 70k.

    You're attitude is just laughable. I'm good at one thing but not versatile or I'm versatile but not good at one thing is a normal design with which is nothing wrong.

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...me-how-to-play
    Second post is spot on, third goes a bit further to explain how you can play even better.

    And you're right other classes don't have to make that choice, they have to make other choices like do I bring a tank, heal, condition (what kind), burst or normal damage pet? Do I grab "support" utilities or utilities that boost my damage? (eles can give swiftness/heals regardless of utilities) and so on.

    The mechanic of the ele is simple and easy to understand your weakness is the versatility of your weapons, your strength is the versatility of your attunements...

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Again I'd love to see stats about being massively more powerful. I doubt that in a 5minute fight the warrior will have done 100k ranger 90k and the ele 70k.
    First of all, your numbers make me question you having touched the game beyond first few levels. At 80, even with healing gear, you should be hitting for triple digits even with staff "heal attack".

    Second, the relation in your numbers is WAY off. We're not talking a difference of only 30%. We're talking about a difference of that calibre amongst ranged classes. Melee-prioritising classses like warriors have that kind of differential on most ranged classes due to might mechanics ALONE. Then you have to add the "melee advantage" on top of it. Then you add the general OPness of warrior DPS at this moment on top of that, and you're not going to be looking at a measly 30% differential.


    Seriously, how have you managed to play the game at all without even understanding how might works and why it tends to stack near max on melee while remaining in low single digits on ranged?
    Last edited by Lucky_; 2012-09-13 at 11:56 AM.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    First of all, your numbers make me question you having touched the game beyond first few levels. At 80, even with healing gear, you should be hitting for triple digits even with staff "heal attack".

    Second, the relation in your numbers is WAY off. We're not talking a difference of only 30%. We're talking about a difference of that calibre amongst ranged classes. Melee-prioritising classses like warriors have that kind of differential on most ranged classes due to might mechanics ALONE. Then you have to add the "melee advantage" on top of it. Then you add the general OPness of warrior DPS at this moment on top of that, and you're not going to be looking at a measly 30% differential.


    Seriously, how have you managed to play the game at all without even understanding how might works and why it tends to stack near max on melee while remaining in low single digits on ranged?
    WTF are you on about? I've never even mentioned might...
    Give me statistics, real statistics datamined from combatlog on a dummy for all classes over a period run of 5 or 10minutes and SHOW me the %.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    WTF are you on about? I've never even mentioned might...
    Give me statistics, real statistics datamined from combatlog on a dummy for all classes over a period run of 5 or 10minutes and SHOW me the %.
    Thank you for telling us that you in fact never played the game, as you do not even know that there is no way to extract this information from the game on meaningful level.

    That said, it does require quite a bit of willful ignorance to ignore the damage differential between best and worst the classes at the moment, as it's plainly visible without exact numbers.

  8. #668
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    WTF are you on about? I've never even mentioned might...
    Give me statistics, real statistics datamined from combatlog on a dummy for all classes over a period run of 5 or 10minutes and SHOW me the %.
    If you wish to theorycraft or counter someone elses argument you're going to have to do it without this information, since it is not possible to get that from the game.
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  9. #669
    After 136 hours on my ele, I can't say that the class is gimped in WvW pvp (I don't do structured) but I can't endorse it for the newcomers either.

    I've done my fair share of keep sieges, keep defenses, group combat, and 1 on 1 combat. I'd have to say that a staff ele is definitely a force to be reckoned with both in keep fights and in chokepoint defenses (bridges, valleys, etc) because of our relatively powerful aoe damage/effects and the sheer number of them (2 in earth, 2 in water, 1 in air, 3 in fire) at 1500 range. You can turn the tide of battle all by your lonesome - whether by destroying the treb/cat in one meteor shower, taking out a group of arrow carts with a lava font, or cockblocking their zerg with the frost snare. You will not, however, do good damage. You might get lucky and get a bunch of people who clump up, then you can use your fire skills to great effect, but in an open field a warrior will outdps you anytime, anywhere. In fact, it feels like I do more damage on my level 17 warrior than on my level 80 geared ele, from similar range and similar safety (except, of course, warriors get much higher base hp).

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    If you wish to theorycraft or counter someone elses argument you're going to have to do it without this information, since it is not possible to get that from the game.
    Which is exactly my point, you feel Gimped as an ele it doesn't mean you are. And no it's not possible to track burning/bleeds through combatlog but straightoutdamage is no issue to track...

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Which is exactly my point, you feel Gimped as an ele it doesn't mean you are. And no it's not possible to track burning/bleeds through combatlog but straightoutdamage is no issue to track...
    The message isn't about "feeling" gimp but "being" gimp. Go and kill golems in the mists with different classes and see how well that goes with elementalist vs a warrior.

    Then go into exporables with a warrior and see how fast enemies melt when warrior is on them, in comparison to when you're on them. Mobs and ads work fine for this.

    Then go into WvW as a two man team and try to hold some less travelled points. See how fast people melt when you're on them, and when your warrior friend is on them.

    Really, you have to be purposefully not looking not to get the MASSIVE damage discrepancy. Nevermind devs themselves told you there will be one. Nevermind the might mechanics which are visible from your UI. Even regardless of those, you have to really force yourself not to realise the problem if you're playing the game.


    Hence my conclusion: you're not playing the game. Or you have an axe to grind.
    Last edited by Lucky_; 2012-09-13 at 10:24 PM.

  12. #672
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Is damage and survivability the only thing we care about? O_o
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Is damage and survivability the only thing we care about? O_o
    If you count control and healing as a part of survivability in addition to ability to take hits, then what else is there?

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Is damage and survivability the only thing we care about? O_o
    In the average hot join 8v8 and if you count mobility into survivability, definitely.

  15. #675
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Is damage and survivability the only thing we care about? O_o
    Well seeing as how Lucky_ put it the exact same way i'm thinking of it, yes, that is all we care about lol.

    Oh yeah, i also care HEAVILY on how pretty and explody my abilities are!! Ah i love scepter so much!! Entire landslides flying through the air and into the poor enemies face....
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  16. #676
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Well, I'm referring to survivability in regards to how everybody is saying "This profession is squishy" for every non-soldier profession, which obviously includes moves that mitigate that damage directly.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  17. #677
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Well, I'm referring to survivability in regards to how everybody is saying "This profession is squishy" for every non-soldier profession, which obviously includes moves that mitigate that damage directly.
    I actually see the adventurer profs being the most sturdy due to how much they can dodge around and avoid everything so easily...all in all though the 3 armor levels are about the same durability, scholars just have an active durability, adventurers have an evasive one, and heavy just has a passive.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  18. #678
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I actually see the adventurer profs being the most sturdy due to how much they can dodge around and avoid everything so easily...all in all though the 3 armor levels are about the same durability, scholars just have an active durability, adventurers have an evasive one, and heavy just has a passive.
    Well, that's what I've been feeling with personal experience. Although I generally have no reason to agree with Lucky's posts, I doubt he's a bad player, so when he makes the claims about Elementalist damage and survivability being significantly surpassed by other professions, I'd like to think there's some truth to it.

    Of course, then I see people making posts like this on the official forums, wrt posts saying that dungeon difficulty is directly impacted by group composition and rampant classism:
    … and then you said this and I’m like “What in the WORLD is this guy TALKING ABOUT?!” And then you say later in the thread to “ask Elementalists about that.” I AM a max level Elementalist. An Elementalist is one the BEST classes to take into a dungeon (assuming the Elementalist isn’t a scrub, but that goes for all classes really), so I have no idea where that tripe came from.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  19. #679
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Well, that's what I've been feeling with personal experience. Although I generally have no reason to agree with Lucky's posts, I doubt he's a bad player, so when he makes the claims about Elementalist damage and survivability being significantly surpassed by other professions, I'd like to think there's some truth to it.

    Of course, then I see people making posts like this on the official forums, wrt posts saying that dungeon difficulty is directly impacted by group composition and rampant classism:
    Personally, elementalist seems like the minimum requirements of skill is HUGE! not to mention the skill cap is so high compared to my ranger that it's like a condo compared to a skyscraper.... AND i can kinda confirm this via originally playing Ele in pvp and just getting shit on all over the place and me questioning whether or not the prof is even working, and then after playing a bit more and getting better going into pvp and just curb stomping people like i'm a god amongst mere mortals....

    EDIT: I think it goes without saying that this is NOT in tourney pvp...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  20. #680
    ele might be a tad harder to grasp but i don't think it requires anyone to be a genius to play one either.
    didn't play my engineer much but i have more trouble figuring out what and how i want to do with him than with my ele.

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