Are You Happy About No Trinity?

[korruna]

Which just isn't true at all. I suggest you actually take a look at abilities and how they work.

I did look at them. I don't think you did though. You mentioned the Elementalist only having one button to group heal with. Let me correct you there since you are very misinformed.

An Elementalist equipping a Staff in Water Attunement has 3 spells that provide healing. That's 3 buttons on your 1-5 bar which they have access to without specializing into anything. (source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Water_Attunement) Also, while in Water Attunement, all nearby allies are healed continuously.

And take a look at their traits: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List...ntalist_traits
They have an entire Trait line dedicated to adding more Healing to their abilities.

Most of their Utility skills that can heal are based on their Attunements as well (i.e.: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Elementals)

Want to name any other Profession which supposedly can't provide group healing? You can't. Why? Because there isn't one.

I love people who have no idea what they're talking about trying to argue!

[DrakeWurrum]

That's not what I mean by tanking:

It's not gonna be a tank in the wow sense, where you got taunts and one person can hold threat the entire match. But I have looked at the support slot skills and traits for guardian and they have alot of abilities that will allow them to protect other members, redirect damage, put up barriers, port to the lowest HP target and heal them, ect. Their traits allow them to specialize further to boost healing, or toughness and damage reduction.

Basically specializing your class to be able to assist your allies more, absorb or reflect damage, protect the low hp targets, ect.



I didn't say guardians are the only class with defensive abilities, every class has access to tanking, healing, or support/cc.

That's... lol, that's not tanking. If you want to call it tanking to make sense of it for yourself hey, fine, whatever floats your boat.

But it's not tanking.

[Borzo]

It's not gonna be a tank in the wow sense, where you got taunts and one person can hold threat the entire match. But I have looked at the support slot skills and traits for guardian and they have alot of abilities that will allow them to protect other members, redirect damage, put up barriers, port to the lowest HP target and heal them, ect. Their traits allow them to specialize further to boost healing, or toughness and damage reduction.

I'd call that control and support. That's not tanking, and most people who've ever played an MMORPG would NOT consider that tanking either. So why call something that's not tanking "tanking"? What's the point? Why use words incorrectly when there is no need for it? All you do is confuse other people.

[Fencers]

Some one brought up an interesting point of comparison a while ago about the whole tanking thing in GW2. They basically said "tanks" [soft quotes around that] will be akin to Bruisers in MOBAs [League of Legends, DOTA, etc].

That's a very good way of thinking about tanking in GW2 I feel. At least conceptually. Anet themselves have a blog post where they use the word "tank" in a loose sense and specifically say it's an aspect handled in GW2 as it was in GW1. That is to say, "tanking" is at best body blocking and CCing for brief intervals as mobs get caught on terrain.

However, do not mistake that as the mechanic 1:1 of what tanking is in WOW/EQ like MMOs where the role of tank both required and the exclusion of the other 2 roles. It's as important to know why tanks are tanks in Warcraft & the like as it is to know of how that is absent totally in Guild Wars 2.

One can not tank.

One can take a hit.

These are not the same mechanics.

[DrakeWurrum]

One can not tank.

One can take a hit.

These are not the same mechanics.

Oh thank god, somebody who understands the distinction! O_O

[Olianda]

Not at all, I LOVE being a Healer. I love being able to control if people live or die.

Plus I can't dps for my life, except on my rogue.

[DrakeWurrum]

Not at all, I LOVE being a Healer. I love being able to control if people live or die.

Plus I can't dps for my life, except on my rogue.

DPS in GW2 will be nothing like DPS in WoW. You'll do fine if you just give it a shot.

In addition, what you really love is supporting your team-mates, which includes healing. So you could, say, play a Staff Guardian, with traits and skills aimed primarily at buffing and supporting the team in various ways.
Or you could play an Elementalist that specializes primarily in Water Magic.

While you wouldn't ever be a dedicated healer, where the only thing you're doing is healing your allies who took damage, you can still fill a similar role.

[terrahero]

Not at all, I LOVE being a Healer. I love being able to control if people live or die.

Plus I can't dps for my life, except on my rogue.

You dont "dps" you play your character. While playing you fullfill the 3 roles in GW2. Sometimes you need to actively use support, sometimes it happens passively. For example, placing a Healing Turret vs An attack that hits the opponent and applies a small heal to an ally of it hits.
Same with Control, some attacks have built in Blinds, Slows or various debuffs that Control an enemy and make him less effective. But there are also a whole bunch that you use on demand.

Gameplay is more akin to an Action game. You need to hit your opponent, avoid his attacks and if the situations calls for it use active support/control abilities.

You cannot play GW2 and say "well i dont like DPS, so im just not gona do that" or "Well i never liked being a Healer, so im not gona use any active-support abilities". Because you are gimping yourself and your group. And the game is a little more focussed on attacking and being a Damage dealer. Because even as someone who completely forfeits his on demand control and support, he will still do some passively simply as an effect from his attacks.
Infact, id wager someone who goes purely on a "i hit stuff"-tour will give just about as much Support as someone who goes on a "ima stand here and just heal"-ride. Atleast the Damage dealer also inflicts damage. And someone that uses both will blow the "ima dps" and "mrHealems" out of the water.

So from what i can tell, attacking stuff is pretty important. If anyone does not want to partake in that aspect, this is probably not the game for you.

[Speedy92286]

That's not what I mean by tanking:


Basically specializing your class to be able to assist your allies more, absorb or reflect damage, protect the low hp targets, ect.



I didn't say guardians are the only class with defensive abilities, every class has access to tanking, healing, or support/cc.

You might not think traits will make a difference, but then why add them in the game? Their existence makes me think that people will still specialize in something.

Players do switch between roles, different weapons do different things, like a sword/shield is prob more defensive, while a staff might have some healing and buffs, and a 2h sword more offensive/cc. You also have the 3 support skills on the right which you can change around that can further make you more heal oriented, more defense oriented, or support cc breaker. Then finally traits which let you boost certain stats like healing, toughness, precision, buff durations ect., further making you more specialized.

What you are thinking of is "supporting" your allies. The heals, protection abilities, and other ways to support are all there so ANYONE can help out the group. No one is going to be dpsing/tanking/healing. Those roles do not exist in GW2. There are only three kind of abilities in GW2: conditions, support, and damage. Conditions can be "buffs" (boons) "debuffs" (mostly called conditions). Most classes can do this. The Guardian is the boon master, just like the Necro and Mesmer are the condition masters. However, every class can put a condition on an enemy.

Support is very vague, but every class can support the group. Depending on how you build your character, you are more supportive or less supportive. For example, my necromancer is going to be giving health passively to my allies as I do damage. That is a trait. I want to live a long time and would like to help my allies with wells (like a light well) and passive healing as I gain life. This is NOT anything close to being a healer. My Guardian will be having a focus on having a lot of life and being able to support my guys through shields, boons and generally being behind me as I play in pve and pvp. I am not a tank or a healer for protecting my allies and preventing them from taking damage.

Damage is just that. DAMAGE. Every class does damage. The most supportive Guardian in the world can do decent damage and is expected to. A water traited elementist will attune into fire to do damage when the group does not need passive healing or any sort of support. A thief who is specced only for damage (which can theoretically happen if you really want to) can support the group by putting conditions such as cripple (root) and blind (make the next attack miss).

Everyone is expected to support, do damage and generally stay alive. The more you help the group the better. The more you dodge and avoid attacks the more likely you are to succeed. You are not a tank because you can take a hit slightly better than a ranger. You are not a healer because you have abilities that say "heal". You are not a dps because you put 30 points into power. The trinity is gone; now all you have to do is adapt.

[Snow White]

Not at all, I LOVE being a Healer. I love being able to control if people live or die.

Plus I can't dps for my life, except on my rogue.

You can still help your teammates live or die by helping to control enemies and using aoe heals for the whole group.

besides dpsing in GW2 as someone already said isn't like dpsing in wow. You wont be watching your rotation, standing still and staring at recount. You'll be watching your teammates and the fight, you'll be in the fray reacting to whats happening.

Try it out, I bet you'll love the excitement.

[Protoman]

I'd call that control and support. That's not tanking, and most people who've ever played an MMORPG would NOT consider that tanking either. So why call something that's not tanking "tanking"? What's the point? Why use words incorrectly when there is no need for it? All you do is confuse other people.

That's... lol, that's not tanking. If you want to call it tanking to make sense of it for yourself hey, fine, whatever floats your boat.

But it's not tanking.

You should both expand your preconceived definition of a tank beyond what you see in WoW. Someone trying to protect their allies, using defensive abilities that reduce damage taken, and spec traits for inc vitality and toughness....is playing the role of a tank.

Tank is not defined by a taunt or holding agro, its simply someone who is trying to protect their party and take the damage. Just like a healer is someone who tries to heal their party, and support gives buffs or CC, and a DPS does damage.

While you wouldn't ever be a dedicated healer, where the only thing you're doing is healing your allies who took damage, you can still fill a similar role.

And just like you can fill a similar role of healer by being a guardian with a staff and using support abilities, you can play a similar role to a tank by using a mace and shield and trying to take the hits and put up shields or reflect damage taken by your allies.

Tank, heals, support, dps......every class can do them all, but not all at the same time....you will be playing a role, with traits, gear, and weapon catered toward your role.

[DrakeWurrum]

You should both expand your preconceived definition of a tank beyond what you see in WoW. Someone trying to protect their allies, using defensive abilities that reduce damage taken, and spec traits for inc vitality and toughness....is playing the role of a tank.

Tank is not defined by a taunt or holding agro, its simply someone who is trying to protect their party and take the damage. Just like a healer is someone who tries to heal their party, and support gives buffs or CC, and a DPS does damage.

In the holy trinity, that is what tanking is defined as. When you soak damage in any MMO, people say you are "tanking" not just in WoW. Do you define a Mage polymorphing the enemy as tanking?

No. You don't. But there you are, protecting allies from taking damage, right?

Traits and gear will NOT be able to give you the kind of stats necessary to fulfill the role of being a dedicated tank or a dedicated healer. You want to see a Guardian try to tank? Excuse me, I'm about to go pull up a video link for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Of5n2SI#t=214s

Watch that Guardian "tank" blink directly into a group of 3 enemies, and watch his HP *PLUMMET* because he is trying to tank. It doesn't take him long to die, and guess what? His heal, and everybody's group healing likely, is all on CD.

The really funny part is watching him sit there, trying to bring himself back from the downed state while getting hit by AoE damage, with NONE of his team-mates helping to rez him! *just rolls on the floor laughing*

If you look around the 6-minute mark, what you will be watching is absolutely chaotic combat while this "tank" is trying to somehow get the enemy mobs to attack him and not his allies, and utterly failing to do so.

[Borzo]

You should both expand your preconceived definition of a tank beyond what you see in WoW. Someone trying to protect their allies, using defensive abilities that reduce damage taken, and spec traits for inc vitality and toughness....is playing the role of a tank.

Tank is not defined by a taunt or holding agro, its simply someone who is trying to protect their party and take the damage. Just like a healer is someone who tries to heal their party, and support gives buffs or CC, and a DPS does damage.

Let's try to be a bit reasonable here.

1) This is a WOW-based discussion forum. There are probably 15-20+ million people who have played WOW. They have a very specific definition of a "tank". That kinda "tank" is not gonna exist in GW2 -- at all. So why use the word "tank" when 20 million people will misunderstand it? That's just being irresponsible, careless, and misleading.

2) All classes in WOW can protect allies and have defensive abilities, and can spec for things like stamina or dodge. But a mage or rogue or priest will never be a "tank" no matter how hard they try.

3) Being defensive and protective doesn't make a character a "tank". Almost all combat-based video games allow for these abilities... does that mean every combat-based game ever made also has "tanks"? What's the point of stretching the definition so far that it includes everything? It becomes useless and meaningless then.

4) Why not just call it "protecting"? Or howabout try why ANet has called it: Control and Support.

And just like you can fill a similar role of healer by being a guardian with a staff and using support abilities, you can play a similar role to a tank by using a mace and shield and trying to take the hits and put up shields or reflect damage taken by your allies.

Mace and a shield won't let you tank. A shield gives you some extra defensive abilities, but you still won't be able to tank.

You can play support, sure, but you still won't be able to heal anyone who thinks they can tank either.

Tank, heals, support, dps......every class can do them all, but not all at the same time....you will be playing a role, with traits, gear, and weapon catered toward your role.

No class, at no time, will be able to tank, or heal someone trying to tank. It's just not gonna work. There will be control and there will be support. But those 2 things aren't the same. And in fact, you WILL be able to do control, support, and damage at the same time, because many abilities have multiple effects that - for example - let you heal and snare and damage all at the same time.


You're trying really hard to fit a square peg into a round hole... for no reason. I just don't see what the point is?