Mesmer Discussion Thread

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-24, 02:59 PM

Actually, with zito's idea, phantasms might need a buff, simply because you'd be limited to one "weapon" phantasm and one "utility" phantasm (which may not be slotted at all), whereas currently you can have out three phantasms on a suitably long fight where you're lucky enough that they're not being targeted.

**Durzlla** · 2012-09-24, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

Actually, with zito's idea, phantasms might need a buff, simply because you'd be limited to one "weapon" phantasm and one "utility" phantasm (which may not be slotted at all), whereas currently you can have out three phantasms on a suitably long fight where you're lucky enough that they're not being targeted.

This may just be me... But I've never had a fight kind enough to allow me to have 3 of the same phantasm.... Now 3 phantasms totally, that's easy, Mage, warlock, defender boom, 3 casts done, not the same though!!

**Kelesti** · 2012-09-24, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Durzlla

This may just be me... But I've never had a fight kind enough to allow me to have 3 of the same phantasm.... Now 3 phantasms totally, that's easy, Mage, warlock, defender boom, 3 casts done, not the same though!!

Not in PvP, but in PvE getting three swordsmen on a fight usually isn't that difficult thanks to the evade. Average up time is 2.4 up at a time. By the time one goes down (they benefit from their own pulsing regeneration), the cooldown to replace it is halfway over.

There are of course fights where it's not do-able (Flame Effigy's fire, most of Sorrow's Embrace). But outside of them, it's just a matter of time, and time is something I have.

**Durzlla** · 2012-09-24, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kelesti

Not in PvP, but in PvE getting three swordsmen on a fight usually isn't that difficult thanks to the evade. Average up time is 2.4 up at a time. By the time one goes down (they benefit from their own pulsing regeneration), the cooldown to replace it is halfway over.

There are of course fights where it's not do-able (Flame Effigy's fire, most of Sorrow's Embrace). But outside of them, it's just a matter of time, and time is something I have.

Eh, my build doesn't benefit as much from me trying to keep phantasms up all the time due to how much harder they are to keep up, and all that sort of thing, granted i always try to keep ONE out, especially the mage, he just flat out helps everyone!! But with the staff i tend to only keep one mage unless i'm in a group with condition heavy players in it (you know so i don't need to rely on placing the conditions on myself)

**zito** · 2012-09-25, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Durzlla

Eh, my build doesn't benefit as much from me trying to keep phantasms up all the time due to how much harder they are to keep up, and all that sort of thing, granted i always try to keep ONE out, especially the mage, he just flat out helps everyone!! But with the staff i tend to only keep one mage unless i'm in a group with condition heavy players in it (you know so i don't need to rely on placing the conditions on myself)

Hense why phantasms should be separate, for you they are nothing more then shatter tools. With my idea you get your shatter tools and keep your mage.

**Durzlla** · 2012-09-25, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by zito

Hense why phantasms should be separate, for you they are nothing more then shatter tools. With my idea you get your shatter tools and keep your mage.

Eh, i like being able to shatter my phantasms it makes way for new illusions, however if they were to go with the whole your phantasms chain into their own shatter then i'd have no issue with it, infact it'd hardly phase me.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Durzlla

Eh, i like being able to shatter my phantasms it makes way for new illusions, however if they were to go with the whole your phantasms chain into their own shatter then i'd have no issue with it, infact it'd hardly phase me.

Well, you'd be able to shatter your clones AND your phantasms.

**Durzlla** · 2012-09-25, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

Well, you'd be able to shatter your clones AND your phantasms.

like i said, if it gives phantasms a chain skill by all means i'll take the change, because then i can choose when i wanna shatter my shield or my sword, which is just a win win instead of shattering both

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Durzlla

like i said, if it gives phantasms a chain skill by all means i'll take the change, because then i can choose when i wanna shatter my shield or my sword, which is just a win win instead of shattering both

Far as I can tell, you wouldn't be able to have both out, since zito is suggesting to limit to one weapon phantasm.

**Durzlla** · 2012-09-25, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

Far as I can tell, you wouldn't be able to have both out, since zito is suggesting to limit to one weapon phantasm.

Um... what? Sword = phantasm, Shield = army of clones

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by Durzlla

Um... what? Sword = phantasm, Shield = army of clones

Oh, thought you meant Warden.

I guess he uses axes, but Mesmer tends to use it as a defensive shield against ranged attacks. :P

**Durzlla** · 2012-09-25, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

Oh, thought you meant Warden.

I guess he uses axes, but Mesmer tends to use it as a defensive shield against ranged attacks. :P

Ah i use it like i do whirling defense on my ranger (same skill) as an offensive D, it makes them leave me alone, 12 stacks of vuln + additional damage, and then the reflect ruins most peoples day..

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 04:24 PM

I think, however, going off zito's idea... that rather than limiting to a certain number of phantasms, just restrict each phantasm to only summon one of itself at a time. So like, you can have a Sword and a Berserker both out, but you can't have two Swords or two Berserkers.

**zito** · 2012-09-25, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

I think, however, going off zito's idea... that rather than limiting to a certain number of phantasms, just restrict each phantasm to only summon one of itself at a time. So like, you can have a Sword and a Berserker both out, but you can't have two Swords or two Berserkers.

Then it becomes use phantasms on cd again.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by zito

Then it becomes use phantasms on cd again.

Eh, not really. There's no point to use your Sword Phantasm again if you can't have a second one out, because you already have one out.

If you're only limited to one, you'd still end up using the Sword on cooldown if you plan to consistently shatter it, so it's no different from yours - you're just not restricted to only having that one Phantasm.

I mean, it's either this, or buff phantasms, because you know everybody who enjoyed having all 2+ out at a time would bitch and moan.

**zito** · 2012-09-25, 06:27 PM

If you're only limited to one, you'd still end up using the Sword on cooldown if you plan to consistently shatter it, so it's no different from yours - you're just not restricted to only having that one Phantasm.

You won't be shattering it on cd, my shattering effect I added wasn't intended for something like that its more of situational.

also no changes for mesmers :/

**Kelesti** · 2012-09-25, 06:34 PM

One phantasm, period. No shield/sword phantasm, just one. Change up some of the clone summoning skills or even traits to replace some of the non-damage ones (disenchanter?), and buff Defender's survivability, because he's replacing a DPS Phantasm. But Phantasms and clones should not be competing for the same limiting effects (cap at 3, Mind Wrack lolz?)

Shattering either needs to ignore the single Phantasm that we'd be limited to, or give it an added effect: Swordsman is 10 stacks of Vulnerability. Defender is Protection. You get the idea

Both Phantasms and Shatter need to feel like they belong to the same profession, instead of the binary nature of one vs. the other. That even if you don't trait into shatters, hitting the button still feels like a reward when it counts, or that if you like shattering all the time, that Phantasms aren't just a replacement for a clone on the meter.

---------- Post added 2012-09-25 at 12:38 PM ----------

Originally Posted by zito

also no changes for mesmers :/

No bug-fixes for Necros either. This was a "Fix the world" kind of patch, it seems, more than profession touchups.

**DrakeWurrum** · 2012-09-25, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by zito

You won't be shattering it on cd, my shattering effect I added wasn't intended for something like that its more of situational.

You wouldn't be shattering it on CD with my suggestion either. I get why you want to limit it to exactly one, but I think it would be better to limit to one per phantasm-summoning skill, otherwise they will all clash with each other.

Random aside: I'm hating that Illusionary Leap only has a 600 range. :<

**Kelesti** · 2012-09-25, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum

You wouldn't be shattering it on CD with my suggestion either. I get why you want to limit it to exactly one, but I think it would be better to limit to one per phantasm-summoning skill, otherwise they will all clash with each other.

That way, having a Phantasm out is punishing. You're only ever getting one, not a Berserker and a Swordsman, a Warden and a Defender, just one. If you're weapon swapping to grab a new phantasm, it's because it's better suited to the situation at hand, rather than just because you already have just the one up.

**nevermore** · 2012-09-25, 09:52 PM

Gonna break the flow of the conversation for a sec... My 'main' was a Guardian but I really didn't like playing it so started levelling a Mesmer, she's currently 32, done my first dungeon and OH GOD I'm havin a blast. <3

This was my mesmer appreciation moment.

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