Mesmer Discussion Thread

[Meledelion]

You should see the official ranger forum... Each and every thread in there is almost as bad as this one!

You should try a ranger and then switch to mesmer or ele (supposedly the 2 worst classes after ranger) and then speak again...

Most rangers (me included) are upset because anet said a month ago "we're working in a big change for rangers, focusing on utilities" and now their "big overhaul" is 14points of which 2 or trait symbols (who cares) and 5 are underwater skills (nobody fights underwater + we already were really good underwater), a tooltip update on pet skill (tooltip showin the correct 4sec duration), a torch skill update (which nobody uses since u need to be in melee for it to be effective and our only 1hand melee weapons (sword) is broken as hell), whirling defence which again nobody uses since u need to be in melee aswell, an update in procrate of spirits which is awesome if there was a way of keeping spirits alive(there isn't) so we end up with 3 skill updates that can be considered "good" (can be but shouldn't) 2gs skills and warhorn.

The absolute worst thing is that anet said before the patch "rangers are in dire need of some love" and give us 14 bullet points, after the patch they say "rangers still are in dire need of some more love", which kind of should give away that this last patch did jack for rangers.

What I wanted to say but forgot to was this: I agree that mesmers intraclass diversity is limited, but atleast the class overall works. It's far more anoying to play a class that's being outperformed by every other class but have great intraclass diversity.
Since I know rangers best I'll stick to them for a comparison.

Ranger atm has 0 reasons to be brought, we can't heal, we can't buff, we can't condition (since we got no covers) and we can't dps. But you can really easily spot the difference between a trap ranger, a gs ranger and a bow ranger. Thing is you look at a ranger and go oh that's brown shit, that's black shit and that's a nice pile of red shit => they're all shit.

With mesmer you can go illusions, pure dmg, or condi (not great but heck) and nobody will complain since in pve you bring TW/portal/stealth and in pvp you bring moa/portal/stealth. Meaning ppl will look at you and say oh it's a mesmer, mesmers r good grab him. Without caring if you use scepter/sword or gs/staff,...

[zito]

You should try a ranger and then switch to mesmer or ele (supposedly the 2 worst classes after ranger) and then speak again...

His main is ranger

I agree that mesmers intraclass diversity is limited, but atleast the class overall works.

It only works because of clones at the moment. Stealth further pushes that limit. However anyone with a brain can figure out who the real mesmer is unless they do a decoy - stand still maneuver (which is contradictory of what a clone is suppose to be fyi). Since everyone else has decent aoe, one aoe and that stand still thing is ruined. People who are saying mesmer is too "strong" in PvP don't have half a brain.

In PvE shattering for mind wrack or cry of frustration is stupid when phantasms out perform both of those shatters and you will always have to shatter your phantasm if you want to shatter. Which is why I suggested 5 million times on the forums to seperate the f'en 2 illusions from each other.

[Meledelion]

It only works because of clones at the moment. Stealth further pushes that limit. However anyone with a brain can figure out who the real mesmer is unless they do a decoy - stand still maneuver (which is contradictory of what a clone is suppose to be fyi). Since everyone else has decent aoe, one aoe and that stand still thing is ruined. People who are saying mesmer is too "strong" in PvP don't have half a brain.

I find this funny for two reasons
1. it works, it doesn't matter why it works if it works.
2. Many teams are running confusion mesmers due to their ability to "deny" 2man teams to use skills for significant amounts of time (glamour confusion build). It has the ability to aoe confuse multiple foes with more than 5stacks of confusion in seconds. Add a thief (all teams are) to the mix and tadaa the enemy is dead without having been able to do anything (due to the mesmer). Another strong point is/was the MOA.

Also it's not about being too strong, it's about being viable. I don't care for mesmers being to strong or not, you simply can't deny mesmer still is viable. Rangers (for instance) are not.

I find it weird that you claim mesmers aren't strong in pvp when nearly all teams are running atleast one mesmer. Have a look http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/.../page__st__420 here if you don't believe me.

[zito]

I find it weird that you claim mesmers aren't strong in pvp when nearly all teams are running atleast one mesmer. Have a look http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/.../page__st__420 here if you don't believe me.

I'm not saying they aren't strong. I don't need to repeat my point anymore, go back and read my point.

1. it works, it doesn't matter why it works if it works.

It does matter why it works because then it plays out everything that doesn't work.

Rangers (for instance) are not.

I find a few good rangers who could stomp me with a longbow. Not everything with ranger is bad just like mesmer. I am addressing things in the mesmer thread that are broken and could help diversity when if ever they get fixed.

[Teabaker]

Mesmers are incredible broken in 1v1, sPvP and WvWvW against anything anything non-bunker. Together with thief and bunker-speccs, they destroy the fun of sPvP for any other specc or class.

[Meledelion]

I'm not saying they aren't strong. I don't need to repeat my point anymore, go back and read my point.

How far back do you want me to go? to here

Mesmer is currently unplayable.

or do you mean here

snip for size

or maybe

Mostly everything is broken.
Ok they are looking into berserker and not Image or Iswordsman
lol

, I'm gonna gues you meant this one

Mesmers were the most wanted in WvWvW because of their ability to get everyone in walls. In Spvp we are strong in our pigeon hold builds. We lack build diversity and group utility diversity that is my main point.

which is kidna BS since everything you complained about (and I linked for your convenience) is "we're not strong/unplayable/mostly broken".
You continued with

It only works because of clones at the moment. Stealth further pushes that limit. People who are saying mesmer is too "strong" in PvP don't have half a brain.

Saying you're trying to make the class more diversified within itself whilst your shouting from the rooftops how broken mesmers are, are two very different things. Just saying you're doing something doesn't make you actually do it.

In response to the rest of your post:
If your car only works if you use your left foot to accelerate and your right foot to break, you better just do it that way instead of saying "oh shucks my car is completely ruined" especially when ppl with other cars can't even start their engine.

If you're being stomped by rangers with a Longbow (and then implying that longbow isn't bad) makes me crack up. Top teams haven't used longbows on rangers since BWE3 due to how subpar the damage of it is in comparison to other weapons. Add to this that ranger is being viewed as the worst class ingame atm (confirmed by devs) you can come to the conclusion that longbow rangers are the weakest of weak.
The only way you can die from a longbow ranger is if he's a beastmaster but this has it's own limitations I won't go into since this is the mesmer thread.

Larynx was correct when he said:

This thread is the perfect example of why developers shouldn't take balance suggestions from forum posters.

Between me posting Teabakers post came up, his point is valid and the same as the one I made here:

2. Many teams are running confusion mesmers due to their ability to "deny" 2man teams to use skills for significant amounts of time (glamour confusion build). It has the ability to aoe confuse multiple foes with more than 5stacks of confusion in seconds. Add a thief (all teams are) to the mix and tadaa the enemy is dead without having been able to do anything (due to the mesmer). Another strong point is/was the MOA.

P.S. "In the land of the blind, one-eye is king"

[Bovinity Divinity]

Do we really need a class thread to turn into a, "My class is crappier than yours!" slap-fight?

[Meledelion]

we don't, we simply need ppl to acknowledge that what they're doing and what they're saying they're doing are two vastly different things...

[Lane]

Okay, I have to ask, did any GS mesmers get the chainsaw skin and if so do you have any in-combat screenshots of it?

[zito]

Updated the description for Blurred Frenzy to indicate that it gives evasion through “Blur,” instead of “Distortion”.
Phantasms will now properly have all boons applied to them via player traits.
Phantasmal Disenchanter can now be cast at the correct distance.

No zerker fix
No image damage fix
Phantasm now have a delay before their first attack


/sigh

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 03:28 PM ----------

Fyi, the delay on first attack has been present since BWE2. It is there for balance reasons to give enemies a moment to react to the powerful summon.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...ted-after-12-3

Sorry Jon, but from playing every BWE and Mesmer since the start. There was no delay in attacking.

/sigh

[Durzlla]

Zito, it appears you're casting illusions on yourself instead of the enemy... I've been playing Mesmer off and on since BWE2 and have ALWAYS noticed this delay, the only phantasm the delay wasn't super noticeable on was the iduelist, but they still had one.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 11:54 AM ----------

John peters has said with the next update (12/14/12) both berserker damage will be fixed and phantasm delay will be at .25s, they were going to do 0s but that broke stuff with the phantasms.

AND THE MESMERS REJOICED!!

[Meledelion]

And the rangers cried since they still won't be viable whilst classes that are borderline OP get fixed first...

[Durzlla]

And the rangers cried since they still won't be viable whilst classes that are borderline OP get fixed first...

Rangers aren't broken, this is an L2P issue, I've been dominating just fine on my ranger... And either way our Opening Strike traits got fixed

[Meledelion]

Rangers aren't broken, this is an L2P issue, I've been dominating just fine on my ranger... And either way our Opening Strike traits got fixed

Sure it's a L2P issue, plz PM me some tips.
For dungeons you are useless since buffing/debuffing can be done far better by:ele,mes,nec,thief,war,guard,engi
dps can be done better by war, guard, thief, ele, engi, mes.

You're probably "hanging on" but you're no where near competitive with other classes when you run on a ranger.

[Durzlla]

Sure it's a L2P issue, plz PM me some tips.
For dungeons you are useless since buffing/debuffing can be done far better by:ele,mes,nec,thief,war,guard,engi
dps can be done better by war, guard, thief, ele, engi, mes.

You're probably "hanging on" but you're no where near competitive with other classes when you run on a ranger.

What? Mass Rez and condi purge 4 times in a minute? What? 100% regen uptime for allies + very good condi remov, what? Aoe group healing on a better CD then healing rain? 50% uptime on protection for allies? What we can do even more then that and I don't feel like typing it/I think zito and Kel don't want ranger talk in Mesmer thread? Please tell me how we're gimped... Oh yeah, I'm also the last one to finally drop in my groups, always (well unless I'm a dumbass and jump off a cliff because I'm not paying attention)

And since when does DPS matter in GW2? I've always gone for survivability + constant damage and constantly outperform the one hit wonders you mentioned under the "do better dps" cause it's kinda hard to dps when your ass is firmly melded with the dirt on the floor!

Edit: btw I'll PM you when I get home, PMing on my phone just leads to headaches

[VibrantViolet]

No zerker fix
No image damage fix
Phantasm now have a delay before their first attack


/sigh

Lovely, isn't it? Last night, I was in fotm, and I said in guild chat, "Something is wrong with my class. My phantasms are really messed up," and they thought I was traited wrong or something. I hadn't changed my traits at all. One of my guildies checked the forums, and low and behold, I wasn't crazy! Pretty upset about these bugs.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...ted-after-12-3

Sorry Jon, but from playing every BWE and Mesmer since the start. There was no delay in attacking.

/sigh

EXACTLY. I noticed the only time they had a delay was when I wasn't traited to give my phantasms fury. When they had fury, they didn't delay. Even the delay they had without the fury trait was minor, less then a second. He's just trying to cover his ass instead of stating the fact they fucked up.

[zito]

Zito, it appears you're casting illusions on yourself instead of the enemy... I've been playing Mesmer off and on since BWE2 and have ALWAYS noticed this delay, the only phantasm the delay wasn't super noticeable on was the iduelist, but they still had one.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 11:54 AM ----------

John peters has said with the next update (12/14/12) both berserker damage will be fixed and phantasm delay will be at .25s, they were going to do 0s but that broke stuff with the phantasms.

AND THE MESMERS REJOICED!!

A .5 sec delay I don't really count as a delay, its hardly noticible. If that's what I would be complaining about I wouldn't be complaining. Don't assume people complain to complain. Every patch to fix a mesmer bug creates another mesmer bug that takes awhile to fix. It's down right stupid.

I don't like jon's explanation on why phantasms have a delay "because they are a hard hitting move". Well... so a theifs 8k backstab should have a delay then? Phantasms are now in line with other attacks, they can be dodged, blocked, blinded, los, everything else like a normal attack. So why does it need a delay? I can understand a delay if phantasms and illusions in general could still be summoned if los or blinded but they can't.

So why is there a delay now?

[Durzlla]

A .5 sec delay I don't really count as a delay, its hardly noticible. If that's what I would be complaining about I wouldn't be complaining. Don't assume people complain to complain. Every patch to fix a mesmer bug creates another mesmer bug that takes awhile to fix. It's down right stupid.

I don't like jon's explanation on why phantasms have a delay "because they are a hard hitting move". Well... so a theifs 8k backstab should have a delay then? Phantasms are now in line with other attacks, they can be dodged, blocked, blinded, los, everything else like a normal attack. So why does it need a delay? I can understand a delay if phantasms and illusions in general could still be summoned if los or blinded but they can't.

So why is there a delay now?

Because they persist for freaking ever, and destroy healthbars like they go out of style? And I'd hardly call a .25s a delay... Which is what they're set to in the next patch (they've already said this on official mes forums)

I don't think blind and Los should affect phantasms tbh and I only use then as canon fodder, it was cooler when mesmers were able to just have their phantasms everywhere...

[zito]

Because they persist for freaking ever, and destroy healthbars like they go out of style? And I'd hardly call a .25s a delay... Which is what they're set to in the next patch (they've already said this on official mes forums)

A lot of skills destroy health bars without being a summon. A simple aoe or just a quick tab target destroys phantasms. At this point it's better to run a phantasm shatter build PvP wise. For their first attack and that's it, any kind of cleave or aoe and no more phantasm.

Speaking of a time line this is how it went:

-Phantasms get a delay because its a hard hitting move even though every class has a hard hitting move that is not a summon and can't be killed (if aoe is going down don't even bother summoning a phantasm).

-Phantasms could still be summoned on los and other things so the delay was justified.

-Months later it was stated it was never intentional for phantasms to persist when los and other methods so it was nerfed. Delay not justified

-Instead of fixing it in beta for a 0 sec delay (which would result in them having to actually fix "other things breaking" which should be fixed regardless) we get a unjustified delay in our attacks over other's.

Granted it's .25 seconds... Actually it's not .25 seconds because they did this to counter the new delay bug they acknowledged. So we get left with overnerfed phantasms.

[Meledelion]

What? Mass Rez and condi purge 4 times in a minute? What? 100% regen uptime for allies + very good condi remov, what? Aoe group healing on a better CD then healing rain? 50% uptime on protection for allies? What we can do even more then that and I don't feel like typing it/I think zito and Kel don't want ranger talk in Mesmer thread? Please tell me how we're gimped... Oh yeah, I'm also the last one to finally drop in my groups, always (well unless I'm a dumbass and jump off a cliff because I'm not paying attention)

And since when does DPS matter in GW2? I've always gone for survivability + constant damage and constantly outperform the one hit wonders you mentioned under the "do better dps" cause it's kinda hard to dps when your ass is firmly melded with the dirt on the floor!

You use spirits=fail since they're dead in one sec+u have to sac all your traits for them, regen prot and might can be maintained easily by eles+condi removal +power+blind+weakness+burn+bleed+vuln same goes for wars/engineers and necros (buff wise i mean) and they don't even need to sacrifice their elites/heals for it.
List all you want there's more than 4classes that can do w/e you list better

Regarding your second part check https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...rst#post923772 think about it (what is said in there counts for other classes aswell btw)

Your idea about "dead dps=0dps" is awesome (in wow) where you have the trinity. In gw it doesn't fly