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  1. #21
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    I did.
    To finish, people how are bashing on the Mesmer aren't doing so in spite or hate but because they freaking love the original version and this new version did lose the reasons why they love it in first place.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbas View Post
    I did.
    To finish, people how are bashing on the Mesmer aren't doing so in spite or hate but because they freaking love the original version and this new version did lose the reasons why they love it in first place.
    /sigh

    I never stated that the profession will be playing exactly the same as the old version. Hell no profession will play the game as their old versions. What my whole argument is about barbas is people claiming that GW1 necro minion master will be more like GW2 mesmer then the GW1 mesmer.

    Neither GW1 playstyle of necro or mesmer still exist, however they have similar abilities and set ups that bring back that old classic mesmer feel as explained earlier, and besides the 3 illusions you get to have out it doesn't feel more like minion master then a GW1 mesmer (also explained earlier). You still have the interrupts, you still have the backfire, the conditions that saves lives. The actual feel of a classic mesmer is still there, just not the playstyle.
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  3. #23
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    It does feel like the minion master, the whole mechanic revolves around summon/shatter.
    Like I've said before with the backfire example, and I can give a few more if you want, the Mesmer feel, mind games and such are indeed gone.
    Interrupts are semi-there through conditions, interrupts, in the Mesmer case, are not only "interrupt this", they're away more deeply than that.
    Backfire is there but don't have any skills to play with it.
    Conditions are suppose to fill the hole left by hexes and they have not suceed at all doing this.

  4. #24
    It does feel like the minion master, the whole mechanic revolves around summon/shatter.
    That's 1 mechanic, mesmers don't revolve solely on this like minion masters did.

    mind games and such are indeed gone.
    They aren't. I would say they have more chances to fuck with the enemy then before. Just not in the way of GW1 as I already pointed out.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-02-24 at 06:31 PM.
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  5. #25
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    It's one mechanic sure, but it's the core mechanic.

    Care to give mind games examples? I don't see any. All I see is direct damage and condition stacking.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbas View Post
    It's one mechanic sure, but it's the core mechanic.

    Care to give mind games examples? I don't see any. All I see is direct damage and condition stacking.
    Clones are meant to be part of the mind fucking.

    Say you are about to die and mantra of recovery still needs to be charged. Pop Mirror images and then pop decoy. You will become invisible and your foe believes you are one of the clones. Quickly use blink to teleport backwards away from the action. Charge mantra of recovery, use it and get back in before the foe notices you and blind side him with either conditions or attacks. Use shatter if needed to buy some time.

    Like I said before, its not the old way of mind fucking from GW1 but you are still mind fucking the foe. Think outside the damn box out of guild wars 1, because this isn't GW1.

    You also do know that most conditions have direct relation to hexes. Such as confusion (does backfire damage), freeze (increases cd time on skills) and burning (DoT).
    Last edited by zito; 2012-02-24 at 06:54 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Clones are too random to be a mind game. And at this point it's so easy to spot which one are the real Mesmer that hurts, plus, apart from the invisibility tricks, you have to mimic their actions if you want to fool anyone which means a loss of dps and mobility.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbas View Post
    Clones are too random to be a mind game. .
    That's your personal opinion, I have seen people fuck up with clones when its obvious who the real mesmer was and I have seen people who haven't. It is determined by the player, but they aren't too random.

    If you don't know how to use them don't bother with them. If you can't figure out how to mess with someone this probably isn't the profession for you.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-02-24 at 07:11 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Are random in the sense that a player may or may not find who is the real Mesmer.
    If you don't use the clones you'll be in disadvantage, just like a Ele who doesn't change attunements, a Necro who doesn't use death shroud and so on.

  10. #30
    Are random in the sense that a player may or may not find who is the real Mesmer.
    It's not supposed to be guaranteed. This is where player efficiency comes in.
    If you don't use the clones you'll be in disadvantage, just like a Ele who doesn't change attunements, a Necro who doesn't use death shroud and so on.
    Missed my point again. If you are going to use something for the sake of using something don't bother using it because its going to be medicore trash, that goes with death shroud and attunement swapping.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-02-24 at 07:21 PM.
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  11. #31
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    Omg why are people so stupid.... 1stly clones use the same attacks a you, so if you and all your clone are bunched up doing the same spell how will the know whose "doing more damage"
    2ndly when mesmers make clones their victim loses their target, and if you are a good Mesmer you won't act like a player and act like a clone. You know how much fuck you'll fill peoples minds with if you act like a clone while surrounded by your clones??


    Fyi if you want a minion master play a necro and be a fucking minion master!! They have traits that increase effectiveness and amount of minions summoned not to mention they have a heal that's a minion, at least 3 minion utility slots (one summons 2 minions off the bat) and an elite minion. And last I checked any MM who had 3 minions that died from being looked at funny was an idiot and disgrace to Mm everywhere in GW1. So someoe wanna tell me why they're suddenly going to be the new MM?

    Ps before one of you uniformed people say "no new Mm" for the love of god go read the necro death magic traits and look at the skill info, or is no Cd on you minion skills and summoning a minion everytime you dodge roll or kill someone not Mm enough for you?
    Last edited by Durzlla; 2012-02-24 at 07:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  12. #32
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    I have to agree on you on that one zito.
    Wow Durzlla.
    Thanks for expanding what I said with one sentence. "you have to mimic their actions if you want to fool anyone".

    As for the rest, reading comprehension ftw!

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbas View Post
    I have to agree on you on that one zito.
    Wow Durzlla.
    Thanks for expanding what I said with one sentence. "you have to mimic their actions if you want to fool anyone".

    As for the rest, reading comprehension ftw!
    How does reading comprehension have anything to do with my post? I'm not replying to you, i'm not replying to zito, i'm just saying (because the whole mesmer = new MM thing popped up in this thread) that minion masters are still necros.

    You're probably going to say something along the lines of "Mesmers sacrifice their minions" blah blah blah, so do the GW2 MM.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  14. #34
    How to make illusions into a mechanic that forces opponents into a rock/hard place decision ; give them durations,up their damage to meaningful levels,make the shatter to your currently selected shatter when destroyed (thus the shatter bar becomes a toggle bar like attunements).The opponent has to choose between letting them live and tanking the damage they deal or destroying them and taking the shatter.There you have it,domination hexes in GW2 keeping in line with both the mesmer role and the new mechanics of the game.

    It also sidesteps the current conundrum of "crap my phantasm will be shattered as well as my clones and I just created him..." by making individual illusions shatter individually aaaand punishes mindless aoe spam (yeah I know it doesn't quite work like that) in order to nullify a whole class mechanic.Not to mention the whole TF2 Spy syndrome of 'godly versus noobs,lacking versus good players'.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agroculture View Post
    How to make illusions into a mechanic that forces opponents into a rock/hard place decision ; give them durations,up their damage to meaningful levels,make the shatter to your currently selected shatter when destroyed (thus the shatter bar becomes a toggle bar like attunements).The opponent has to choose between letting them live and tanking the damage they deal or destroying them and taking the shatter.There you have it,domination hexes in GW2 keeping in line with both the mesmer role and the new mechanics of the game.

    It also sidesteps the current conundrum of "crap my phantasm will be shattered as well as my clones and I just created him..." by making individual illusions shatter individually aaaand punishes mindless aoe spam (yeah I know it doesn't quite work like that) in order to nullify a whole class mechanic.Not to mention the whole TF2 Spy syndrome of 'godly versus noobs,lacking versus good players'.
    I don't think they should up the clones damage and that, but i'd like to see them apply a random shatter condition to whoever destroyed it to punish them for picking wrong/destroying your dps. However i think it should still be more of a mechanic you use to shatter to kinda wipe the board and start a new way to mind fuck them.

    I have a feeling good players will use their clones to a very nice, and extreme degree where noobs will just kinda be trying to pull them out and might shatter them, instead of having a devious scheme going the second they pull out their first illusion.

    Zito will probably be one of those people where you think you're going to win and then you die and he wasn't actually there... he seems like one of -those- mesmers...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Agroculture View Post
    How to make illusions into a mechanic that forces opponents into a rock/hard place decision ; give them durations,up their damage to meaningful levels,make the shatter to your currently selected shatter when destroyed (thus the shatter bar becomes a toggle bar like attunements).The opponent has to choose between letting them live and tanking the damage they deal or destroying them and taking the shatter.There you have it,domination hexes in GW2 keeping in line with both the mesmer role and the new mechanics of the game.

    It also sidesteps the current conundrum of "crap my phantasm will be shattered as well as my clones and I just created him..." by making individual illusions shatter individually aaaand punishes mindless aoe spam (yeah I know it doesn't quite work like that) in order to nullify a whole class mechanic.Not to mention the whole TF2 Spy syndrome of 'godly versus noobs,lacking versus good players'.
    Signets and traits up the damage and health of illusions. You are going to wanna shatter clones before you summon a phantasm for convince.

    Zito will probably be one of those people where you think you're going to win and then you die and he wasn't actually there... he seems like one of -those- mesmers...
    I have developed 3 weapon specs strictly for PvP, I just need to test some skills I have little info on like mantra's. So..... prepare to die!
    Last edited by zito; 2012-02-25 at 12:50 AM.
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  17. #37
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    Druzlla I was the one bringing MM to the table in this thread. I'm not going to say anything more regarding that, I already gave my opinion.

    Heck, they've the health bubble why not play with it? Giving some skill that makes the foe think they got more health than they actually have or the other way around, or the two of them, something along those lines would bring back some of the Mesmer flavour, imo.

  18. #38
    Heck, they've the health bubble why not play with it? Giving some skill that makes the foe think they got more health than they actually have or the other way around, or the two of them, something along those lines would bring back some of the Mesmer flavour, imo.
    The only thing you can view is the health bar, you can't view how much HP your foe has left or percentage.
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  19. #39
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    I meant, you cast skill x on hecky, hecky now think he got only 2000 health when in reality hecky has 5000 health.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbas View Post
    I meant, you cast skill x on hecky, hecky now think he got only 2000 health when in reality hecky has 5000 health.
    Seems meh to me, gives the foe a chance to waste his heal early but we have poison for that.
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