I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[Deleted]

I don't really like breaking down posts in smaller bits, but there are multiple things I want to address.

But to elaborate: why is it such a problem? Mainly: WvWvW and hard bosses in dynamic events. During a siege in WvWvW a Guardian is pretty much useless, both on offense as defense. You can do some supporting (which not every prefers) but that doesn't net you a gold contribution, which doesn't encourage this at all. All you're left to do is spam the gate for 5 minutes. During a defense, the best place to be is on the walls, raining death upon the attackers, which the Guardian just can't do. At all. You could jump down but if the attackers are even a little bit competent, you're death in 20 seconds.


Protecting allies does not (in any way) exclude ranged abilities. The Guardian can still be about protection even with a decent ranged attack on the Scepter.

The range of the Scepter is laughably short. Any competent player can easily stay out of range while still attacking you. Not to mention that the Scepter is probably the least interesting weapon, apart from the Hammer. The spamable attack from the Scepter is also incredibly slow and can be easily outran or dodged. The Staff is also only moderately ranged. The first attack has a very small range. It's a good attack for short range AoE damage, but it isn't a viable ranged option. The second ability on the Staff has the longest range available to a Guardian (and a short cooldown if you don't explode it), but once again goes way too slow to be useful. The Symbol also has good range, but is easily avoided.
It's perfectly possible to create a build that has no problems with ranged. I did make one (dubbing it: fuck you, ranged!), and it worked great. (Sword/Focus+Greatsword, Bane Signet, Signet of Wrath, Judge's Intervention), but the build had one enormous downside. My support capabilities (or battlefield control, for that matter) went down the drain. You can effectively deal with ranged, but you lose everything this profession is supposedly about.

EU servers was full so I didn't make it into WvWvW - however during hard boss fights or Ettrin dynamic events I didn't have a problem staying ranged with the scepter. I could stay at the same range where as most ranged were.

About the ranged type of support - No it doesn't mean that you cannot do that as a Guardian, but my interpretation of the Guardian, it's not the way of support that I had in mind while first looking at the profession.

I do not really agree about the range of the scepter. As said above the range at hard boss fights with the Scepter was for me -boring- yes but I still felt capable of doing my support with my virtues and shouts - and it was not the type of support I wanted to do.

I think we all know that Guardian need a long-range rework or revamp, what I was going at is that, you can easily comprehend the "feeling kited issue", and that was my whole point, and yes you can be range it's boring BUT YOU CAN - Staves range is poor yes. The Scepter might be unappealing but it is a ranged weapon and it had a pretty long range, the same as Rifle as Warrior - At least that was what I tested with my Warrior friend, vs. the Ettrins and Destroyers in the 15-25 Human Zone, and vs. Ice Elementals in the Norn 15-25 zone.

[Ynna]

In PvE the Scepter has only one problem: it's boring. In PvP it has a lot more problems which all boil down to: as soon as your immobilize runs out all of your skills are easily evaded.
The only "long-range" option on the Staff has the exact same problem.

[Deleted]

For PVP I used staff for "you shall not pass" wall on the ground to block some places and avoid chasing by enemy team but mostly what I was doing in PVP was try not to die at all. I was using mace and shield (later swapped for 1h sword and shield) and that was great. Damage was okay from mace (slightly bigger with sword tho dunno why) but skills are amazing. Pushing people from points, blocking attacks, heal and awesome crits after 3 attack combo. Use all that with virtues and I had fun time in PVP.
My build (can't remeber exactly): http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#g;aap...ZbX;ceYa;ZgiQY

Skills for survival and control with greatest condition removal I've seen in this game. And for the elite skill: OMG amazing! Heal every1 to full hp and heal them all the time with boons and stuff for party.

Here is the good one fight me vs 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv-fU...ailpage#t=146s

Guardian profession is amazing

[Ynna]

Bring on the Guardian longbow...

I'm advocating changing the first and second skill on the Scepter. 1 could become a ranged projectile that actually moves faster than a drunken turtle. 2 should be a ground-targetable Symbol.

Either that or a Rifle.

[Loaf Lord]

Anyone else depressed they didn't change the guardians traits? Bleh

[Ynna]

Anyone else depressed they didn't change the guardians traits? Bleh

I wouldn't say depressed, but the traits do need a bit of work. I posted my problems with the traits on the official forum, and other players as well. Let's hope they do something with the feedback.

[Loaf Lord]

I wouldn't say depressed, but the traits do need a bit of work. I posted my problems with the traits on the official forum, and other players as well. Let's hope they do something with the feedback.

Meh, depressed was a hyperbole on my end, but it did irk me. I'm still hoping they'll make changes, I usually like being the magic warrior archetype and would like to continue that trend, but if things stay the same it looks like the warriors gonna be my main.

[Ynna]

Well it's not like the traits make the Guardian unplayable. They're just stupid. Especially the Zeal-line. I just can't say that enough.
The Guardian is still a great profession, despite the flaws.

[Deleted]

I would love to see Guardian get to use bows, and when you shoot with it, blue glow will surround it like the other weapons when you hit with them -w-'

You can never have enough glow..

[Klazmaunt]

I would love to see Guardian get to use bows, and when you shoot with it, blue glow will surround it like the other weapons when you hit with them -w-'

You can never have enough glow..

I think a Crossbow would be a neat addition. Guardian only, seems more of a defensive weapon than a longbow. Unfortunately I don't think they'll want to create a new weapon, designs, skills, etc. for one class.

Easiest solution is to rework the staff skills to make it more long ranged/support than it is.

[Deleted]

Well it's not like the traits make the Guardian unplayable. They're just stupid. Especially the Zeal-line. I just can't say that enough.
The Guardian is still a great profession, despite the flaws.

I took a bit more of an in-depth look at the traits myself yesterday and I've come to the same conclusion. The traits that are available just seem incredibly bland, lackluster and boring compared to other professions such as thief or necromancer. I'd like to see them add more interesting stuff. They cannot build 1 line around symbols when it's such a small part of what a guardian is all about. I'm curious to see what they have in mind for the next beta builds and the final release.

[Ynna]

whats wrong with the zeal line?

There are traits in there I can see myself using, Fiery wrath, greatsword power, eternal spirit, zealous blade, scepter power. Ok so some are a bit situational, but I can see they have uses. not everything has to be 100% awesome all the time.

Is there anything specific you don't like about the Zeal line? Or any of the others?

The biggest problem with the Zeal-line is that every minor trait is about Symbols. At best, this boosts two of your skills (at worst none). The Zeal-line doesn't complement a pure damage build, while it should, since it provides Power and something with conditions. The Major traits are okay, but the actual good ones aren't that plenty.
The Radiance-line has decent minor traits, but it provides little synergy with the provided critical strike increase, unlike, say the equivalent Warrior-traits.
The other lines are quite a bit better, and I only have relatively minor problems with them. The Virtue-line should have its last minor trait placed first, to complement damage builds better, but that could be a balance issue.
I also have an overall dislike of traits that only affect one weapon, but that could be a conscious decision by Arenanet. I don't like it, but at least I can understand it. (For example: Right Handed Strength -providing extra crit chance to every one-handed weapon- is something I do like.)

[WorldofWorkcraft]

Every class needs updates...Guardian wise, I'd say the Staff should just be updated. Maybe make the staff have an AoE toggle for shortish range (~600-900) and a 1200 single target. The line no one can pass should become a bigger line, or arc.

I don't want to see a bow added...especially a blue glowy bow. I'll just see:


I think they can just tweak sceptre or staff skills to accommodate to people's wants for range and the ability to nuke on a wall...Personally, I'll be fine manning a siege weapon and waiting until the gate breaks down while defending from a flank.

I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first.

[Ynna]

fair enough, but I found guardians could put out hefty damage and had pretty decent on demand burst, combined with decent survival ability. I never felt gimped so long as I was not kited to hell and back....or when I was on walls being useless in WvW.

Like I said before: the traits don't make the Guardian unplayable. They're just not designed all that well. I'd say the lack of ranged is a bigger issue than the traits, but they both need fixing.

[Deleted]

Like I said before: the traits don't make the Guardian unplayable. They're just not designed all that well. I'd say the lack of ranged is a bigger issue than the traits, but they both need fixing.

Agreed, the traits feel very lackluster. The profession itself is solid, but I'd like to see some more creativity with the traits.

[solarbear]

Think they need to make the Staff long range and make it fun to play. Just so Guardian has something to do in WvWvW sieges. It is the easiest weapon to do this with because there is no offhand defensive skills to take into account and balance around.

Personally, would prefer a longbow as Staff has sissy written all over it.

[Ynna]

Personally, would prefer a Longbow as Staff has sissy written all over it.

The Staff is all kinds of awesome. That's just a fact. :-)

I'd really hate to see serious changes be done to the Staff, because the abilities themselves are fine, they mostly need some tweaking.

[Deleted]

For those who did PVP guardian what kind of damage were you doing? For me I would regularly hit around the 1k-2k mark, but I have seen warriors crit for 11k+

[Ynna]

For those who did PVP guardian what kind of damage were you doing? For me I would regularly hit around the 1k-2k mark, but I have seen warriors crit for 11k+

I did some PvP, but I honestly didn't really look at the actual numbers. But when I used my defensive load-out, I'd do quite low damage. When I later switched to a pure damage load-out (as pure as a Guardian can be anyway), my damage seemed roughly equal to what I was able to put out with a Thief. Focusing on damage, my opponents went down pretty fast.

[Ojimaru]

For those who did PVP guardian what kind of damage were you doing? For me I would regularly hit around the 1k-2k mark, but I have seen warriors crit for 11k+

That's about what I got with my Radiance/Valor build using Sword Chain attacks, which in retrospect was absolutely subpar. Warriors are able to hit those number mainly due to the synergy of Sigil of Intelligence and Sigil of Doom with their Eviscerate. The same doesn't work with Guardians because our burst damage comes from multi-hit abilities, i.e. Whirling Wrath and Zealot's Defense. This isn't actually as bad as it seems since a Warrior running the above combo can easily be thwarted by Blinds, Aegis, etc.