Thief: Multiple Designs for Steal

[Ryph]

I've been reading around on the forums about the issues of Steal, Stealth, and Pistol OH are the main things being negatively discussed concerning the thief. Lots of good suggestions are in a lot of these threads concerning these 3 things, but I have not yet to find a noteworthy solution in terms of stealing. The consensus for Stealth is that when traited, it becomes way too strong offensively. And for pistol OH, it just doesn't stack up with dagger OH.

My issue with stealth is that ANet is kind of looking straight forward with its design, and it has a terrible RNG factor that could potentially decide some fights just because you got a crap item. One of the coolest systems I've ever seen in a game with a thief is from Final Fantasy Tactics. You had the choice on a thief whether you wanted to steal gold, armor, item, weapon, or even "heart", which meant if the other character was the opposite sex you could effectively turn them over to your side. I thought it was a genius idea.

For GW2, I think it would be awesome for us to have something like that in place. We don't have lots of weapon choices, and our Steal mechanic as is is pretty lackluster. The Mesmer for instance has their whole setup of building clones and then shattering them. They have a range of selections when it comes to what kind of shatter they want: One that puts up confusion, one with a reflection shield, one that damages and even one that stuns. 4 variations of a mechanic.



Steal could be as follows:
F1 = Steal Weapon Could be either the weapon the player has equipped or a random one as it is now. Just use it to attack, much like how Steal functions now

F2 = Steal Utility Could be a set utility for each class or maybe whichever ones they currently have equipped.

F3 = Steal Boon Self Explanatory. Would work much like Spell Steal does for Mages in WoW. Just steal a random buff that the enemy has on them for yourself. With Traits, this could steal multiple buffs.


The way this system would work is that whenever you use a certain steal, the others will start their cooldown. Steal currently works that only when you USE the item does the CD start. With 3 types, the others could be starting their CD while you choose the best time to use the weapon, utility or boon. You wont be able to use THAT Steal until you use the item, but if you choose to Steal Boon when you have a weapon in your F1 slot, you can do that and then you lose the weapon but gain a boon.

I ultimately think this would be a more active style for Thief and it would make the player choose wisely. Some boons are only active for a few seconds, and some utilities are only good in certain situations. I think the first 2 should be from a specific set of items/utilities because that way it's easier from a design standpoint and also a player's.

Much of what ANet does is extraordinary and innovative. But having Steal be what it is now is pretty bland and uncharacteristic considering how awesome their design team is for this game. We're thieves, let us have a great flexibility when it comes to stealing. Some of us may want that hammer to bash someones face, or that awesome flame turret from that engineer, or a few of us may want to take that Retaliation or Might from the Guardian who just gained it.

I'm open to suggestions for these of course but I honestly feel having multiple variations of steal would be a good way to solve this steal problem. Of course its only beta right now but number tweaking for Steal isn't really what it needs. It needs flavor and I think what I proposed is a good idea for that to happen.

[Deleted]

How would a Thief steal a boon? Physically I mean?

[Deleted]

I think the steal we have now is pretty unique. We steal an item, but that item is pretty powerful, it's not like total RNG, that you might just steal a rock that does 0 damage. From a Moa, you steal feathers which blinds the next guy you use it on, from one of these walking oaks you steal a big stick which got a big knockback.

I think steal is a really cool and iconic ability, and it isn't too RNG that gives you weak items.

Also, stealth. In Guild Wars 2, stealth isn't as 'iconic' as in other games, where your character is invisible all the time, but rather for some seconds to make your opponent confused. Your abilities makes you pop in and out of stealth, in combat. Some skills changed when you enter stealth, and becomes more powerful or whatnot.

[Armond]

How would a Thief steal a boon? Physically I mean?

Well, they wouldn't, they'd do it magically. The original assassin was very much a hybrid of physical and magical ability, and the thief reflects this with skills such as Shadow Refuge, Shadowstep, Dancing Dagger, and Shadowstep.

[Loaf Lord]

Well, they wouldn't, they'd do it magically. The original assassin was very much a hybrid of physical and magical ability, and the thief reflects this with skills such as Shadow Refuge, Shadowstep, Dancing Dagger, and Shadowstep.

Yeah, I assumed they utilized some kind of shadow magic. How else could a thief freaking shadow step to wherever his arrow lands? Their description says they use the "covert arts", which is ambiguous enough to assume there's some magic involved.

[Autumn xD]

I like this idea because, as you said, the current system has too much RNG.
However, I'm still on the fence with the current design because I haven't seen much stolen abilities. The only one I've seen is Blind+Stealth, which I definitely find appealing.

[Deleted]

or smoke and mirrors.

[Ryph]

Yeah, I assumed they utilized some kind of shadow magic. How else could a thief freaking shadow step to wherever his arrow lands? Their description says they use the "covert arts", which is ambiguous enough to assume there's some magic involved.

Beat me to the punch on how they would steal buffs and whatnot. Something that always bothered me for my Rogue in WoW was that it never felt like I was thieving around with him. And then when DK's got Dark Simulacrum which gave them the ability to "steal" a spell, I was further pissed. From what has been shown and see thus far with Steal for Thieves, it's things that are kind of like the proverbial "cherry on top" for your sundae. The main use of Steal now is for the Shadowstep and Stealth, the item you get is that cherry. Sure its sweet but it doesn't really do much and you wouldn't care if they left it out.

Right now from a theoretical view and from seeing limited footage of a thief in pvp, the Thief is solely based around the power of Stealth. There's no denying that it's very powerful, and I know from playing my rogue for so long in WoW that I know how to weave in and out of stealth to get off cheapshots, garrotes, etc so playing a Thief thats built around that kind of setup would be natural for me. And from how it is now, I would dump on people with it.

I want ANet and beta players to hopefully see this thread to kind of get their minds thinking about it. Take away the potency of Stealth attacks(Ini Regen from attacks, damage in stealth) and make Steal a tactical choice. In the IGN video of the Thief, he stole a Whirling Axe from a mob, that basically just spun around doing good damage. The problem with these types of items you get is that you are put in melee range. The thief has very low health and armor, so staying in melee range is not a good idea. You can see from videos that a Thief's health drops rather quickly. I don't want to have a whirling axe when i go against a warrior, because they're going to unload on me and kill me.

However, I'm still on the fence with the current design because I haven't seen much stolen abilities. The only one I've seen is Blind+Stealth, which I definitely find appealing.

This is nice, but we have abilities that already do this for us. It's not really that unique but it is indeed helpful. But if its all RNG, then thats a bad thing. You winning or losing just because you lucked out on getting a feather or you didn't get one? That's not fun for both players on either side. This game isn't going to be like wow where there is basically only ONE spec for PvP/PvE for all the classes. Traits and weapon setups will bring a lot of variation to the classes, and having 3 types of Steal can bring tactical choice to a Thief. It all depends on what you come against and reacting to it, which is all about what this game is: Reactive Play.