American Education, anyone wanna help out a swede :P

[Wells]

this self-esteem based nonsense only teaches kids that they don't even have to try to make it.. the kids themselves know they don't understand the content... but get a pass anyway..

yeah man how dare we teach kids to have self esteem. We should just treat them all like fuck ups, self fulfilling prophecy be damned.

it's incredibly politcally correct and left-wing biased.. I've learned far more about US history trolling my political friends on Facebook than I ever did in school..

Our history classes aren't left wing biased, that's a load of crap. They're American biased and corporate biased.

[Vanyali]

yeah man how dare we teach kids to have self esteem. We should just treat them all like fuck ups, self fulfilling prophecy be damned.

Self-esteem is one thing. The other is false confidence.

We had to proof read in college. I'd read the papers of people that didn't know what a run-on sentence was. When I'd say/ write run-on they literally had no idea what that meant. Comma use? Forget it. Spelling? You wish. They're, their, there? Nice to know they're all the same. In a non-formal setting I can understand these mistakes. In a formal, I-just-got-out-of-high-school setting.. what the fuck, man.

Someone pointing out mistakes in papers and saying "you're NOT good at this, this is how you can improve/ where you're bad" (in a much better way, of course) is better than patting someone on the head and telling them they're good and no one else is better.

[Kasierith]

Self-esteem is one thing. The other is false confidence.

We had to proof read in college. I'd read the papers of people that didn't know what a run-on sentence was. When I'd say/ write run-on they literally had no idea what that meant. Comma use? Forget it. Spelling? You wish. They're, their, there? Nice to know they're all the same. In a non-formal setting I can understand these mistakes. In a formal, I-just-got-out-of-high-school setting.. what the fuck, man.

Someone pointing out mistakes in papers and saying "you're NOT good at this, this is how you can improve/ where you're bad" (in a much better way, of course) is better than patting someone on the head and telling them they're good and no one else is better.

That's the entire point of a freshman dropout class. Get an introductory class, have everyone funnel through it.. and keep the average just at passing. Most colleges have them (usually math classes, though the one I went through was organic chemistry), and they essentially drive in a wedge between people who are willing to work hard and those who, when confronted with a difficult class that's complicated and a step up from high school, decide to drop out.

[Roose]

The American education system is caught between a rock and a hard place right now. Teachers are underpaid, overworked, and expected to teach kids. The problem is by teach parents mean straight A's no matter how dumb their offspring are. If a teacher gives a bad paper an F the parents go in and start yelling at the teacher.

Picture really does sum most of this up.

[Vanyali]

That's the entire point of a freshman dropout class. Get an introductory class, have everyone funnel through it.. and keep the average just at passing. Most colleges have them (usually math classes, though the one I went through was organic chemistry), and they essentially drive in a wedge between people who are willing to work hard and those who, when confronted with a difficult class that's complicated and a step up from high school, decide to drop out.

This was in the higher level, major-specific classes :\

Hell, if I hadn't found my way to the internet, and more specifically to writing for large amounts of my time, I would have zero grasp of grammar and likely spelling. My junior year of English consisted of playing cards and other games as the teacher didn't emerge from her cave (yes, she had an in-class cave of her desk and books stacked on top it to hide from the class...). While I had AP English before that, it focused more on vocabulary and understanding literature more than grammar or even how to write. And by understanding literature I mean that we would have in-class discussions on it and MAYBE a paper... but usually just discussions and in-class assignments that were graded more on how much than content.

[obdigore]

This was in the higher level, major-specific classes :\

Hell, if I hadn't found my way to the internet, and more specifically to writing for large amounts of my time, I would have zero grasp of grammar and likely spelling. My junior year of English consisted of playing cards and other games as the teacher didn't emerge from her cave (yes, she had an in-class cave of her desk and books stacked on top it to hide from the class...). While I had AP English before that, it focused more on vocabulary and understanding literature more than grammar or even how to write. And by understanding literature I mean that we would have in-class discussions on it and MAYBE a paper... but usually just discussions and in-class assignments that were graded more on how much than content.

In my AP English Class my Junior year, we would read out loud from whatever book we were reading in class at the time. The teacher only called on about 3 people to read out loud because they were the only ones capable of reading and pronouncing the words without stuttering. This is Advanced Placement, not even the 'normal' class. It was not difficult books or concepts either.

It seemed like somewhere between grades 6 and 8 they are supposed to teach you 'how' to write. Grades 9+ they assumed you knew.

[Wells]

Self-esteem is one thing. The other is false confidence.

We had to proof read in college. I'd read the papers of people that didn't know what a run-on sentence was. When I'd say/ write run-on they literally had no idea what that meant. Comma use? Forget it. Spelling? You wish. They're, their, there? Nice to know they're all the same. In a non-formal setting I can understand these mistakes. In a formal, I-just-got-out-of-high-school setting.. what the fuck, man.

Someone pointing out mistakes in papers and saying "you're NOT good at this, this is how you can improve/ where you're bad" (in a much better way, of course) is better than patting someone on the head and telling them they're good and no one else is better.

What does this have to do with teaching kids self esteem?

Kids, like everyone else, live up to what we think they are. If you treat a kid like he's stupid or a fuck up or a criminal in training that's what he'll act like. You treat him like he's hard working and capable and that's what you get.

That doesn't mean you don't have to actually make sure they're learning of course.

[Kasierith]

In my AP English Class my Junior year, we would read out loud from whatever book we were reading in class at the time. The teacher only called on about 3 people to read out loud because they were the only ones capable of reading and pronouncing the words without stuttering. This is Advanced Placement, not even the 'normal' class. It was not difficult books or concepts either.

Mmmm.. I took AP Comp, not AP lit.... that was, not fun. Wrote a 1 page essay every day, and a 5 page due every other week, just for the homework aspect.

[Lefthandpath]

its funny you know, most folks are complaining about american education. almost as if NOT complaining isnt an option. saying something bad about america = the new black.......even for americans.

not that there isnt any room for improvement, but the fact is, in poor communities the quality of education aint great, and in rich communities, the education is second to NONE. and heres the kicker folks: you can say that about any country in the world.....funny how that works aint it?

there are several factors involved, but the bottom line is america is not a homogeneous society. theres a lot of variety in the U.S.A., so when you wanna make sweeping generalizations about "american this, or american that" you are simply statomg that you dont understand america at all.

[obdigore]

its funny you know, most folks are complaining about american education. almost as if NOT complaining isnt an option. saying something bad about america = the new black.......even for americans.

not that there isnt any room for improvement, but the fact is, in poor communities the quality of education aint great, and in rich communities, the education is second to NONE. and heres the kicker folks: you can say that about any country in the world.....funny how that works aint it?

there are several factors involved, but the bottom line is america is not a homogeneous society. theres a lot of variety in the U.S.A., so when you wanna make sweeping generalizations about "american this, or american that" you are simply statomg that you dont understand america at all.

I'm pretty sure this is about public schools. Public Schools are below standards compared to most of the rest of the first world. And we spend a lot more money on them as well. It is related to American parents thinking that 'teaching is a schools, and only a schools, responsibility.'

Get involved. Read to your kids. Help them. Make sure they do your homework. Having a child is a 'rest of your life' commitment. Meh.

[Derpules]

In my AP English Class my Junior year, we would read out loud from whatever book we were reading in class at the time. The teacher only called on about 3 people to read out loud because they were the only ones capable of reading and pronouncing the words without stuttering. This is Advanced Placement, not even the 'normal' class. It was not difficult books or concepts either.

Were you in my class... ?

[vindicatorx]

Short background, Im studying to become a english teacher in Sweden and we have a course called "American cultural studies" so atm we are reading about education in the US (and other things there as well)

So Im wondering if any of you american guys/girls can share with me some of your experiences of the education is. Whether if you are in school atm or how it was when you were in school.

Good things?

Bad things?

Typical things maybe you think other countries like Sweden doesnt have or maybe should have?

And so on..

Would appreciate very much if some ppl can share their experiences in school that might help or enlighten me for my work in this subject

Thx in advance /Scy

Biggest problems in public education unless you are taking all College prep classes you are in day care for the most part. Most teachers get tenured meaning that unless they have sex with a student or drop some racial slurs and get caught on tape they can't get fired. Meaning for the most part any tenured teacher really doesn't give a shit about your education they are waiting to retire. Where I am from I took the college prep classes which are did absolutely nothing in helping me prepare for college. Good things I can't really think of any except for the few teachers who actually gave a shit and they usually are the ones who get laid off first as they are younger and still think they can make a difference. We have the "No child left behind" thing also which means the majority of the students who actually want to learn something are held back so the kids who don't give a shit don't look as stupid.

[Wells]

I'm pretty sure this is about public schools. Public Schools are below standards compared to most of the rest of the first world. And we spend a lot more money on them as well. It is related to American parents thinking that 'teaching is a schools, and only a schools, responsibility.'

Get involved. Read to your kids. Help them. Make sure they do your homework. Having a child is a 'rest of your life' commitment. Meh.

The problem isn't public schooling, its our public schooling and more importantly our culture.

[obdigore]

The problem isn't public schooling, its our public schooling and more importantly our culture.

Didn't I say just that in the post you quoted me on?

[Martinussen]

Does this sum up atleast one problem of the US educational system?

[NeutralGuy]

I agree with it seems that the teachers/school all care about results and not actual knowledge. After reading a few articles about education in the US it seems to be so much about the money which in turn is related to the whole RESULTS FTW issue.

But anyone who has anything positive to say about how education is over there? =D

The education is great if you want to succeed. Problem is kids these days do not care.

---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 11:32 PM ----------

Teachers ARE NOT overworked. Underpaid is even a hard argument as their benefits are pretty good. I wouldn't mind paying them more but to say they are overworked is a joke.

---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 11:34 PM ----------

not that there isnt any room for improvement, but the fact is, in poor communities the quality of education aint great, and in rich communities, the education is second to NONE. and heres the kicker folks: you can say that about any country in the world.....funny how that works aint it?

there are several factors involved, but the bottom line is america is not a homogeneous society. theres a lot of variety in the U.S.A., so when you wanna make sweeping generalizations about "american this, or american that" you are simply statomg that you dont understand america at all.

Education is better in richer neighborhoods because their parents care more about their children. Plain and simple.

[Velkeri]

Good thing. I had some great high school and college teachers. Mainly my 12th year English teacher he really loved his job and treated each person in his class as an individual and actually got around to making friends with all of us. He was a great guy I still email him from time to time. He really loved his job and he taught me a lot about the origin of the English language that i felt like i was dumb for not knowing before.

Bad thing. The students. Seriously most of us here on mmo-champion are damn well respectable and educated people but im sure you guys have your stereotypical american that only cares about MTV and the jersey shore and stuff. Its mostly right in my case. Seriously i would guess about 78% of my class cares nothing about the world outside their little lives, that watching to what mtv says is cool and learning about what people tell them is right. It seriously got on my nerves so bad that people of my generation (not all just most of my graduating class) disrespect our history not only as a Nation but as a world as a whole. Seriously if its not on jersey shore then they dont get a S***. Also teachers tend to press homework and studying for test too much. The way this is wrong is most students just memorize answers with out really learning. This is why I loved my 12th year english teacher so much he actually made me crave knowledge like i never did before.

As an up and coming English teacher I would ask but one thing from you sir. Dont make your students study because of the test, make them study because they want to actually learn.

[Kasierith]

The education is great if you want to succeed. Problem is kids these days do not care.

Teachers ARE NOT overworked. Underpaid is even a hard argument as their benefits are pretty good. I wouldn't mind paying them more but to say they are overworked is a joke.

Education is better in richer neighborhoods because their parents care more about their children. Plain and simple.

Wrong on many levels. First, teacher benefits are terrible if you're not in a university. First, you have a time investment outside of work.. finish a long day of school, talking for 8 hours, what do you do? Start on the paperwork from today's class or start on tomorrows. That is excluding afterschool events and students calling late at night. They aren't that bad off in other benefits... but there's really nothing that stands out as especially good. It is an incredibly high stress job currently under high media scrutiny, does not have very much room for advancement in either position or salary, depending on the school can cause you to teach something you have no interest in, and requires constant interaction with a dynamic population where you are expected by every parents to get to personally know every single student that passes through.

As for education being better in richer neighborhoods... taxes. Public schools are financed according to the district they are in; I believe it is property taxes though I may be wrong on the specific category.

[Kraddark]

Our education system is essentially dying because of rules and systems put up in the past that no longer work.

First you have the teachers unions fighting for the rights of teachers. That is great and I really appreciate what a lot of teachers do but of course you have the bad ones. The union has made it illegal to pay good teachers more and bad teachers less. Then you have teacher tenure where its basically impossible to fire a teacher. This creates teachers who work really well for the first two years and then give up when they are granted tenure. Because its impossible to fire teachers the principals trade them with other schools for other bad teachers. Its really sad.

I'm not blaming teachers but the quality of the teacher is REALLY important when looking at the quality of the education.

You also have tracking. They split up students early on into three sections and they are assigned different classes accordingly. The first group are the kids who do well and are expected to become CEO's and lawyers. The second group are skilled labor like accountants. The last group are the field hands. This was put in place back near world war 2 when there were plenty of factory jobs but in today's market it falls apart.

This really is unfair and should be taken out. I know a lot of charter schools have been assigning all their students the same classes.

We waste money. We promote bad teaching habits. We treat students unfairly. Everything is basically in gridlock.

[DigiSith]

Short background, Im studying to become a english teacher in Sweden and we have a course called "American cultural studies" so atm we are reading about education in the US (and other things there as well)

So Im wondering if any of you american guys/girls can share with me some of your experiences of the education is. Whether if you are in school atm or how it was when you were in school.

Good things?

Bad things?

Typical things maybe you think other countries like Sweden doesnt have or maybe should have?

And so on..

Would appreciate very much if some ppl can share their experiences in school that might help or enlighten me for my work in this subject

Thx in advance /Scy

My background is in higher education, so I'm no expert on the K-12 system but the master's program I went through included people from all levels of education (from K-12 to higher ed to corporate training) and I learned a great deal about the challenges facing k-12 and I assume that's the area you're primarily interested in.

I would recommend being a tad more specific about what you'd like to know or what is most relevant to the course you're taking. The U.S. educational system is very complex and changes drastically depending on where you are. There elementary, middle, junior high, intermediate, high schools. There's magnet schools, charter schools, and schools such as the brain-based schools popping up all over. There's still schools were K-12 is taught in the same building. We have public, private-for-profit, and private non-profit. And I'm pretty much just starting to scratch the surface of things that we could talk about and I'd be glad to talk about any of them as I find our educational system fascinating sometimes but it may be more helpful to your studies if refined what you'd like to know a bit.

To provide a bit that you may find useful, other than just my can you clarify response, here are two videos of Sir Ken Robinson that I think have some very valid points about some of the negative aspects of our system.

EDIT: Never mind about the videos as I can't post any yet. Search YouTube for "RSA Animate Changing Education Paradigms" and "Sir Ken Robinson Do Schools Kill Creativity?"

You can search around and find a longer version of the first and possibly of the second but he makes some very valid points in both videos.

As far as some "good" things in our system would be the realization by a lot of teachers that the system is no longer current or the most effective. Schools are popping up that embrace brain-based learning and/or do away with traditions like age-based curriculum.

There's tons of things that can be pointed out either way but if there's something specific you want to learn about let me know. I'll try to remember to come back and check this thread as it's been pretty interesting so far. You can also send me a PM and I'll give you my email address and I'd be happy to help any way I can.