Which Weapons to use ( Combat pve)

[Martyn 470]

Hey guys, quick question

Just the other day I finally got my "The Sleeper" and " The Dreamer" after weeks of shard collecting
I've been told so many things by so many diffrent people about what weapons to use

The current weapons I have are
"The Sleeper"
"The Dreamer"
"No'kaled, the Elements of Death" ( Normal mode)
"No'kaled, the Elements of Death" (Raid Finder)
"Electrowing Dagger" (Normal)
All are enchanted and gemmed fully

I've heard so many diffrent things from Ingame friends and IRL friends about what to use, and I looked at the sticky post about the p1 daggers and couldn't see a difinitive answer

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...pysappy/simple
Is my armory, I think im BIS from normal mode except the boots, which refuse to drop when I attend the raid

Any other advice is Well appreciated

Thanks!

[Torne]

why would you NOT want to take sleeper and dreamer?

[Deleted]

I did hear something about the Axe beening better. but agien i am no rogue so i dunno

[Vishiz]

Naokaled and the dreamer until you can get a heroic Electrowing dagger from hagara. Then you would go with the nokaled and the heroic offhand.

As your ilvl increases the damage from No'Kaled will become a lower and lower percent of your damage so there may be a point where the normal nokaled is < the sleeper/dreamer combo. But you should have your oranges before you reach that point, which are better than any other setup.

The difference between Nokaled + the dreamer and just using the sleeper and the dreamer is around 150dps, so either setup will work.

http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com is basically the accepted site for this kind of information.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ishiz/advanced <- My armory.

Also it might help to add that on heavy cleave fights, The sleeper and the dreamer will be > than nokaled since Blade flurry does not duplicate the proc form Nokaled.

So while nokaled might be better for single target fights by a small margin. I would just keep the sleeper and dreamer on unless you can come to a middle ground on reforging.

[Aenok]

Our Combat Rogues uses the normal mode axe from DW and "The Dreamer" as off-hand; we are 5/8H, if that means anything.

[Sesshou]

Naokaled and the dreamer until you can get a heroic Electrowing dagger from hagara. Then you would go with the nokaled and the heroic offhand.

That must depend on your gear. Shadowcraft showed the dreamer ahead of the 410 dagger from hagara for me (only by like 150 dps, but ahead is ahead).

But yeah the axe is still in general ahead. I think the sleeper wins out if you are doing a significant amount of cleave damage due to the proc on the axe not working with bf

[evac]

i would just use the 2 daggers unless you're working on like heroic ultrax then axe / dreamer

[JustaBigBird]

i would just use the 2 daggers unless you're working on like heroic ultrax then axe / dreamer

What kind of logic is that?

[Deleted]

What kind of logic is that?

Logic that all other encounters have a cleave element in them or don't matter (Morchok).

I recommend the same, something like 200 DPS is simply not worth the hassle unless you need to squeeze every possible bit of damage.

[Krugbuu]

Naokaled and the dreamer until you can get a heroic Electrowing dagger from hagara.

Hit the nail on the head.

[Sesshou]

Hit the nail on the head.

Depends on gear. Shadowcraft shows with my gear dreamer>410 electrowing by over 100 dps when paired with the axe (with reforges being optimized for both options).

[Vishiz]

I loaded his gear into shadowcraft and checked before I posted anything

[Sesshou]

I loaded his gear into shadowcraft and checked before I posted anything

Well ok, but seeing as how hes 1/8 heroic, his gear is likely to change a good bit before he gets his hands on a 410 electrowing so he should still check with his gear [when he can actually make the choice].

[Vishiz]

Well ok, but seeing as how hes 1/8 heroic, his gear is likely to change a good bit before he gets his hands on a 410 electrowing so he should still check with his gear [when he can actually make the choice].

Covered all of that in my post too >< I believe I was pretty thorough in my examination.

And also went through his shadowcraft. If you got every piece of gear possible from zonozz, yorsahj, and ultra (assuming 10 man and you do hm hagara as your 5th hm). Hagaras dagger will still pull out in front of using the dreamer in your offhand. by a whopping 2 dps. Sure it might not be worth it. But I believe the question is pretty vague so either answer really works.

TO answer this question to the fullest of it's extent.

Morchok: No'kaled + dreamer
Zonozz: The sleeper + dreamer (If you have a lot of cleave time on the claw, otherwise No'kaled)
Yor'sahj: The sleeper + dreamer (If you have a lot of cleave time on the black adds, Otherwise No'kaled)
Hagara: The sleeper + dreamer ( possibility for no'kaled here, pending how long tombs are up )
Ultraxion: No'kaled + dreamer
Warmaster: The sleeper + dreamer (again, if you have a lot of cleave time, which you should or your guild hates you )
Spine: The sleeper + dreamer ( Should be sub for this anyway)
Madness: No' kaled + dreamer (unless you do a lot of cleaving, which on heroic, you probably will)

[RehabOC80]

Not to steal the thread....but does P1 Dagger pull ahead of LFR No'Kaled? It has more initial Agility on the Axe + the Proc, but the Dagger does have a measly 2 agil stacking to 100, and more DPS(I assume top end damage might be more as well w/ the 45% SS/RvS)

[Olianda]

No, LFR Nok is better than the P1 Dagger. As people above have said, in cleave situations, the dagger is better.

[Kael]

Not to steal the thread....but does P1 Dagger pull ahead of LFR No'Kaled? It has more initial Agility on the Axe + the Proc, but the Dagger does have a measly 2 agil stacking to 100, and more DPS(I assume top end damage might be more as well w/ the 45% SS/RvS)

There's a stickied thread about this very topic in the rogue forums, but since Shadowcraft has been updated, that's your character's best source. The only thing to keep in mind is that the daggers will win on cleave fights, as the poster directly above you just pointed out, regardless of SC single-target results.

[Sesshou]

Covered all of that in my post too >< I believe I was pretty thorough in my examination.

And also went through his shadowcraft. If you got every piece of gear possible from zonozz, yorsahj, and ultra (assuming 10 man and you do hm hagara as your 5th hm). Hagaras dagger will still pull out in front of using the dreamer in your offhand. by a whopping 2 dps. Sure it might not be worth it. But I believe the question is pretty vague so either answer really works.

You missed some combinations then. Switch his boots to the hm yorsaj boots and check it again (obviously switching his mh to the axe as well). Dreamer will edge it out slightly. So again, he should check with his gear when that option becomes available rather than trying to apply a blanket statement.

[RehabOC80]

There's a stickied thread about this very topic in the rogue forums, but since Shadowcraft has been updated, that's your character's best source. The only thing to keep in mind is that the daggers will win on cleave fights, as the poster directly above you just pointed out, regardless of SC single-target results.

No, LFR Nok is better than the P1 Dagger. As people above have said, in cleave situations, the dagger is better.

Well, everyone was stating Norm Nok, not the LFR version. Even the Sticky doesn't say much about the LFR version, the argument is always seemingly P1 and Norm, or P2 and Norm. I understand they're prob close enough to only be a few DPS apart, but I couldn't find much on the LFR version of the Axe.

SC also doesn't seem anymore updated than it was a couple weeks ago. When I have the P1 Dagger in OH and check the MH to see which is an upgrade/downgrade...it still puts the Dagger well below even Blue 2.6 Weapons from Heroics.

Edit: I see what you mean in SC. I was looking at it in just the weapon Slot/DPS...not realize the graph on the side actually does show a proper increase/decrease depending on weapon selection. Shows 429 DPS w/ LFR Axe > P1 Dagger, which seemed a bit high.

[Sesshou]

I believe the problem you are seeing with the weapon selection tab's ratings is that it doesn't factor in the 45% bonus until you actually equip it. Its similar to how an amazing item with expertise on it will show up lower than it actually is if you are expertise capped when you pull up the slot's selection list.