Possibility of largest city in US history to file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy

[Spectral]

Illustratively, Stockton suffers from having 94 retirees with pensions of at least $100,000 a year - more than twice as many as some comparably sized California cities.

Frankly, there should be no such thing as a $100K pension. It makes no conceptual sense.

[Lysah]

My good old California, land of dreams. Luckily daddy LA will consume the rest of the state and carry us all to immortality.


And what's this, unions are a bad thing? No way!

[Eliandal]

And when the situation gets dire, what do you hear? The rich! The rich aren't paying their fair share! It's all... very frustrating.

We just went through a situation similar to this with the Ontario budget. As our government is a minority one currently, they needed support from obne of the two other parties. The NDP (a left-leaning VERY unionist party) agreed to support the budget if (in part) the government imposed a 2% 'surtax' on those people earning over $500 000.

I'm NOT against fair taxation, and in no way will this hurt those earning that amount - but that same party (the NDP) is screaming at the government because they dared freeze government employee wages (and up here we're lucky - only 54% of our budget goes toward paying wages/pensions - and that's considered atrociously high, are unsustainable)

I guess what I'm trying to say in my rambling way is that I as well am frustrated by all this targetting of 'the rich'. Sure the "1%" are getting away with alot - but the next 24% are doing just as well - and if you check them out - alot of them (at least up here) and unionized positions!

[tyco782]

I'm 28-years-old, and have been working for years in the private sector. In my OP, I clearly state that I'm all for people getting a fair shake, but when salaries and pensions get so high that they gobble up 80% of a city's entire budget? And then the city is on the brink of bankruptcy, and the city workers refuse to give ground on pensions and benefits that outsiders call "unheard-of" in their generosity? I think you're misinformed about the gravity of what's befallen states like mine.

Like you, I am 30 years old and have been working in the private sector for a few years now. I am currently living in Texas where the economy is doing well due to an oil/gas boom. The state government is having revenue issues, but IMO those can be easily solved and are not nearly as big a problem as you are facing. City of Houston specifically is currently experiencing a budget shortfall to my knowledge.

I don't plan on waiting to see if social security will be around in 2045 when we retire. I tend to manage my own retirement funds. I would not trust putting my money into a local, state, or federal retirement fund or pension if I worked for the government. I also would not trust a private company's pension, as we have seen recently what the creditors of Dodge/Chrysler have received for the generous bonds.

In other words, when you make a deal with the devil, expect to get burned. Those people who executed menial work for the government and now receive $100,000 a year in pension benefits must have thought and foreseen something like this would happen. It is common sense. Cut their pensions.

[walexia]

It's real simple.

If money going out is more than money coming in, you lose money. That means money will eventually run out.

Most Americans do this
Most Governments do this
Most unions do this

I would think that people, after years of schooling, would have learned this...on day one because if you live outside your means you will eventually have to pay for it.

The "bad" economy is not an excuse.
"It's more complicated than that," isn't an excuse

Unions are poison in our society. I guess I'm just dumbfounded by how many people can't seem to understand such a basic concept. A 10 year old kid can understand this.

Edit:
Thank you Maneo! You nailed it on the head. Finally an person who can see the issue(s).

I like the way you explained this. As a future technician,I try to examine things with primary focus on the most important aspects first especially on issues as complex as this one.
(Again please correct me if i am worng , just my assesment of the situation)

The pension system of stockton is not working as people want it to.They need to change it, but first involve some economists and mathematicians to make a proper system.I feel that the reason stockton is in this situation is that the people who designed the previous system failed to account for a lot of variables that have lead to their current predicament .What bothers me is that this system was very important and involved alot of peoples money , how was it so badly designed?

The unions demanding pays and benefits that the system cannot support are also to share the blame,The government should have just said "Hey our current system cannot support those demands, it will collapse in the future if we agree with your demands"The unions need to realize that current systems are in place to protect peoples future investments.Like any other system, If it was to change in one area there was to be some compensation elsewhere to balance the sytem, or where the unions demands fulfilled unconditionally??

Ow well,the damage has been done, what it can do for now is try their best from making the situation worse , telling new hire's that the pension system will not be guaranteed to support them as it was suppose to for older workers.

secondly by declaring bankruptcy what does that mean for the city? will they ignore the excess retirees's and start spending money according to their previous set budget allocation?.If so then i guess alot of retiree's will be told that their pension can be no longer be funded by the government at the moment and they will be placed on a waiting list till one of the first retiree's currently on pension dies.

[PizzaSHARK]

People are so fixated on the evils of Wall Street and "The 1%", they don't even realize that the same greed is right next door to them in their own city. They may not be living an opulent lifestyle, but they are living on unreasonably high salaries and pensions and benefits for what they do. And they're bankrupting cities and states across the country, especially in states like California and New Jersey.

And when the situation gets dire, what do you hear? The rich! The rich aren't paying their fair share! It's all... very frustrating.

Firemen, policemen, soldiers, teachers, postal workers, they all deserve better pay than what they're getting in most places given the nature of their jobs, especially the first four.

I think it's ridiculous we pay athletes seven figure salaries by teachers scrape by on less than 30k in a lot of places. But that's just the way of things.

[Foosha]

Firemen, policemen, soldiers, teachers, postal workers, they all deserve better pay than what they're getting in most places given the nature of their jobs, especially the first four.

I think it's ridiculous we pay athletes seven figure salaries by teachers scrape by on less than 30k in a lot of places. But that's just the way of things.

Do you even realize how much hard work it takes to be a professional athlete to get those salaries? And "we" don't pay the athletes salaries like we do teachers, police, postal workers etc... If you don't want to pay towards their salaries, don't buy the tickets, don't watch their games, don't buy their merchandise.

[Packers]

Im sorry what? People who work their whole life, most into thier 60's put into a retirement fund or pension deserve it, Becuase your some 20somthing year old have havnt put shit into it doesnt entitle you to talk down on those who worked for their retirement. The whole 1% movement is just a bunch of lazy ass hippys who dont want to work to earn money.

$100,000+ a year for a retired police officer

Oh yeah dude, he deserves it. He REALLY does.

LMFAO!!!!!!

[goodwrench]

Frankly, there should be no such thing as a $100K pension. It makes no conceptual sense.

You have to have it to get employees at all. You are competing for the same people as other citys that offer it. My dad is a perfect example, he worked for Stockton PD for over 15 years as a Sgt and left of the San Joaquin Sheriffs Office because Stockton didnt offer a reasonable salary. I work as a technician for a law enforcement agency for the state and I make more than a Stockton PD officer with a higher pension, I was in the background process for SJSO when I got picked up by the state, and I wont go work for them. People qualified for law enforcement are few and far between, and Stockton is far and away one of the worst and most dangerous citys in the world. Here is some food for thought, our dispatchers make more than Stockton PD Sgt's do. The PD is smaller now than when my dad joined in 1977, and a of of that is because there is still demand for officers by other citys so they are lateraling or outright quitting.

Bottom line is that 999 out of 1000 people on here aren't qualified for law enforcement, and out of those that are only 1/2 will have any interest, and of those most will have other skills that they can make the same money working elsewhere. I work with officers that are engineers, accountants, lawyers, and other professions where you can make significantly more than the $120,000/yr that a police officer pays.

[Maneo]

Just wanted to share this, regarding the Union for Federal Employees.

Now before I start let me state, I make a comfortable living and I am not bitching and whining that I deserve more ... just want to put things in perspective.

I work as a defense contractor in a specialized field with 11 years experience, a Bachelors in a related field to my employment as well as a Associates. Currently working on another associates that is less directly related to my career field but could still be considered related.

I make 65k a year, with 600 plus dollars going out a month in medical insurance for me and my family. I receive 3wks paid time off a year including sick days. Currently I do not contribute to my 401k cause honestly I don't think it is really going to matter 10 yrs from now.

My job security if you could call it that is iffy at best, every year ESPECIALLY with the current administration I am in jeopardy of loosing my job, cause the only place the Democrats are willing to cut money is defense. Never mind the fact that only 4% of our GDP is spent on defense and even if we brought defense spending to 0% it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference in our current economic bind.

Ok sorry that is another subject all together.... anyhow .. Job security iffy.

Now on to a good friend of mine who basically does the same job ... but as a GS (government service).

He has 8yrs experience in the same specialized field, no bachelors, and is just starting to work on his associates in a completely unrelated field.

He makes 90k a year, pays next to nothing for insurance, and contributes next to nothing for his pension (by the way he will be able to draw on that in 12 yrs cause of his 8yrs of military service). He has one 5 weeks off a year, and as much sick time as needed. It basically will take a act of congress for him to loose his job, he mentions fellow employees falling asleep on the job, not producing ... screwing around etc ... They still have jobs, still get raises etc

Now he is my friend and I don't want to see him loose his pay or benefits or anything but honestly the government workers salary and benefits need to be brought down to the equivalent in the civilian world. They also need to be able to loose a job for being screw ups.

---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 01:03 AM ----------



I am not even going to bother .. going into how wrong this statement is.

Both parties are to blame for our current economic situation... both the demoncrats and repubelicans can't stop spending the tax payers money.

To be fair I wanted to post that I recently have applied to a GS position. My pay is going to go up a minimum of 30k a year possibly higher, with the increased benefits listed above.

Although I will reap the rewards of being in the GS system if awarded the position. I here by swear that I will not bitch, whine, complain, or cry when and if the U.S. govt pulls its head out of its ass and starts paying its employees comparable wages to the private sector.