Demonology and Haste

[Gnoblarl]

I have noticed a discrepancy regarding Demo and haste. The Elitist Jerks FAQ on Demo suggests prioritizing haste to a 1993 haste rating before prioritizing mastery, whereas the FAQ here does not make such a distinction, and suggests straight mastery. Which is the framework I should run with, either in your opinion, or in fact?

The reason I ask is that I am worried about prioritizing haste too much. The 1993 haste rating is to get the extra DoT tick, I am gathering. As long as you clip your DoT before that last tick, you aren't losing out on a tick and thus seeing extra damage. But, as is, I don't think I'm accurate enough to be getting all of my DoTs between the second-to-last and the last tick, and thus I am wondering if haste is really going to help me. Between casting HoG to refresh Immo and reapplying all of the rest of my DoTs (BoD at 44 sec, Corruption, etc.) I don't see myself maximizing all of the extra dps that the extra tick might get me. Any input on this issue?

[Deleted]

As far as i know you should try and reach certain haste thresholds depending on gear lvl:
- sub 390 - reach for 1573 haste for extra immolate tick and rest reforge to mastery
- 390+ - 1993 haste for extra corruption tick and rest reforge to mastery

Anyway to see which is better for you given the gear you currently have you should run a sim.

Edit: don't overlook the fact that higher haste also influences the number of sb's/incinerates you can cast during an encounter it doesn't only increase damage from dots.

[Sabrius]

They suggest the 1993 hast cap for the purpose of multi dotting, demo's ability to multidot is pretty bad compared to affliction and debatable destro. Mmo champion doesn't suggest 1993 in my opinion because Mmo is for the casual raider. You should stack pure mastery if you're under a certain gear level. Once you are at full 397(ej standards) I'd suggest going for the 1993 haste because it is logical to sacrifice some mastery for better dotting (aoe) and more meta uptime once your drop badwell chalice.

Tl:dr high level warlocks are recommended to have 1993 low level is pure mastery

Sincerely: Sabrius of Korgath.

[Gnoblarl]

Thanks. I would def consider myself a casual raider. I've got the full LFR set, and a 390 gear score, but I don't really try to push the limits (and my guild hasn't completed regular DS... it's kind of a scrub guild).

[Jessicka]

They suggest the 1993 hast cap for the purpose of multi dotting, demo's ability to multidot is pretty bad compared to affliction and debatable destro. Mmo champion doesn't suggest 1993 in my opinion because Mmo is for the casual raider. You should stack pure mastery if you're under a certain gear level. Once you are at full 397(ej standards) I'd suggest going for the 1993 haste because it is logical to sacrifice some mastery for better dotting (aoe) and more meta uptime once your drop badwell chalice.

Tl:dr high level warlocks are recommended to have 1993 low level is pure mastery

Sincerely: Sabrius of Korgath.

You go for 1993 Haste if you still have that much on your gear still once you're reforged for hit. You don't reforge other stats to reach that level of Haste.

[Beskar]

The only reason I'd ever reforge for 1993 is if I found myself within ~75 rating of it naturally... it's an absolutely terrible breakpoint to aim for.

[gracfuldeath]

The only reason I'd ever reforge for 1993 is if I found myself within ~75 rating of it naturally... it's an absolutely terrible breakpoint to aim for.

Would you agree/disagree that it's a terrible breakpoint to aim for in terms of a multi dotting fight? (like gunship) What would the max you'd personally sac mastery for to reach that point? (if you agreed :x and yes, you have to stay demo for said fight and not go afflic/destro :P)

[Deleted]

Would you agree/disagree that it's a terrible breakpoint to aim for in terms of a multi dotting fight? (like gunship) What would the max you'd personally sac mastery for to reach that point? (if you agreed :x and yes, you have to stay demo for said fight and not go afflic/destro :P)

Why do you have to stay demo for said fight? No mage or resto shaman/ele?

[StupidPanda]

The only reason I'd ever reforge for 1993 is if I found myself within ~75 rating of it naturally... it's an absolutely terrible breakpoint to aim for.

Someone somewhere calculated once that a full haste reforge was within a thousand dps of a full mastery reforge or something. *Sure you might be losing some mastery DPS by reforging to haste, but you're ignoring the fact that you'll get more impending doom procs, faster casts, etc.

[Sabrius]

You go for 1993 Haste if you still have that much on your gear still once you're reforged for hit. You don't reforge other stats to reach that level of Haste.

at high levels of gear you can reach 1993 haste without reforging anything into haste and everything into mastery. My warlock sits at 2.2k haste and something around 20 something mastery with 100% mastery reforged. You cannot do this at low levels of gear. that's all i was saying in my previous post. I could have worded it better. I never meant to imply reforging mastery into haste. that's just silly.

[gracfuldeath]

Why do you have to stay demo for said fight? No mage or resto shaman/ele?

Because the point of the question was that I wanted to know to what extent he would personally reforge towards that haste rating, if at all, as demo. That part about staying demo was to get an answer other than "I'd change specs"

[Beskar]

Would you agree/disagree that it's a terrible breakpoint to aim for in terms of a multi dotting fight? (like gunship) What would the max you'd personally sac mastery for to reach that point? (if you agreed :x and yes, you have to stay demo for said fight and not go afflic/destro :P)

I do it every week >.>
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=2431&e=2734

Now once I'm on heroic, I'll definitely consider it. But most people aren't running Demo for that fight to be honest, and you certainly don't need the breakpoint to be competitive, even if it might help. My point was more that 1993 is way overvalued generally, if anything 1804 is a bigger one to worry about most of the time (obviously Blackhorn would be an exception >.>)

[Beyz]

Once and for all I'm going to try to eliminate this stupid EJ claim about aiming for breakpoints. Because it's really bothering me quite a lot that so many people value them so high, despite them never being usable... or at least almost never

First of all, the mainstream simcraft evaluations are made from a 450 sec duration fight. For demonology however the time variable is interfering a hell lot with our scale factors. Just to give an example at this point of duration on our ultraxion kills my scalefactor on mastery is twice as high as haste. That's a damn lot.

Now to the thing about aiming at haste plateaus. The only point in time where you benefit from reaching one of these plateous are on leave-and-forget targets which actually happens to live for longer than 18 and 22 seconds. The only targets that exist in DS where this is true is on the warmaster fight. To be exact, the drakes that drop-off the shoulders only to land, what is it, 20 seconds later? Because if you refresh the dot before it expires, it will simply tick on with the current tickrate.

And now finally you got to realize where you want to improve your DPS. Which basically comes down to what the heck your guild seems to be struggling on. Because if it ain't struggling, the reason to minmax to this degree for every specific fight is pointless, you've got to find one reforge setup that benefits your raid the most during hard encounters.

[gracfuldeath]

Oh I agree it's overvalued by most. But seeing how it's mentioned so often, I was just curious on how much value some people personally have it for more specific scenarios. Like you said, you'd consider it. So I was just curious to see how much you'd consider it, numbers wise. .*

1804 is the immo aura tick, right?*

[Beskar]

Oh I agree it's overvalued by most. But seeing how it's mentioned so often, I was just curious on how much value some people personally have it for more specific scenarios. Like you said, you'd consider it. So I was just curious to see how much you'd consider it, numbers wise. .*

1804 is the immo aura tick, right?*

That's correct.

[Deleted]

im staying in the 1993 haste whit /aoe/ spec all the time , mostly cuss of the increase cast speed on filler ( reminds me a bit of destro)