[Megathread] DotA 2

[Ultraviolet Harmonies]

Reading on the wiki, it's saying Leoric's aura stacks with all other lifesteal effects. This seems to imply that Vlad's would stack with it, which would mean all friendly melee units in range of Leoric would be getting 46% lifesteal, on top of the bonus armor and mana regen. Assuming that's true, seems like it'd make for a hilarious thing to do if your team was built around a melee carry being your 1 (Anti-Mage?) Soul Ring, Phase Boots, and Armlet for the early and mid-game, and I guess more support-oriented items after that - the Vlad's, Drums if no one else bought them, maybe a Mjollnir for pushing power or HH to counter the enemy carry?

It does stack. Additionally, it also stacks with one lifesteal Unique Attack Modifier (MoM, Helm of the Dominator, Morbid Mask, Satanic, Satanic Active):


However, it may not be the most optimal of auras to stack just because you can. Vengeful Spirit, Rexxar, Nevermore, Lycan all provide auras that are at least as (sometimes even more) potent, and they might fit in your composition better.

[PizzaSHARK]

It does stack. Additionally, it also stacks with one lifesteal Unique Attack Modifier (MoM, Helm of the Dominator, Morbid Mask, Satanic, Satanic Active):


However, it may not be the most optimal of auras to stack just because you can. Vengeful Spirit, Rexxar, Nevermore, Lycan all provide auras that are at least as (sometimes even more) potent, and they might fit in your composition better.

Yeah. I'm just looking for excuses for people to use B-tier heroes more frequently instead of the same ten or fifteen heroes that make it through the banning phase every game.

Rexxar and VS would be good picks if you wanted to assemble a ridiculous aura-whore team since neither of their auras is exclusive to melee or ranged and both of them are solid picks to begin with. I think the biggest hurdle, aside from being a gimmick-based team (lifesteal/auras), would be finding a way to lane everyone comfortably. With Leoric, BM, and then your melee carry (unless you want to build Leoric for that role), that's three melee heroes already. Unless you can jungle one, that might make laning uncomfortable.


About the only place I can think of to put Zeus in would be as a really shitty version of Leshrac. The vision and true sight he provides are handy but it seems like those alone aren't reason enough to pick him over other options... it seems really unlikely both QoP and Lesh would get banned out.

---------- Post added 2012-08-28 at 10:08 AM ----------

Visage is really fun, all of his skills are pretty good. Familiars are hard to micro but rewarding, but maybe a little too squishy. I think they could use some extra armor, but maybe it's intentional for them to have the durability of a wet kleenex.

Had a Leoric on our team that laned with me, took aura at level 2 and maxed it before stun, and flamed me the entire game for dying to KOTL wave while I was microing familiars on the other side of the map, never mind that my mad SC2 micro skeelz got that lane a triple kill. Then he claimed that I was "to dumb" to see the obvious brilliance in taking a percentage-based lifesteal aura that applies to creeps during the laning phase, since that 10 HP you recover every time you make a last hit is definitely enough to counteract eating nearly every single fucking one of KOTL's waves.

Christ, I hate people sometimes. But Visage is really fun, and seems like he's got a lot of potential as part of a good team. His W is fucking nuts and if you play it right, his E makes him virtually impossible to kill with quick bursts. Surprised Tranquil Boots aren't his recommended duds when his E encourages not sticking around in the middle of things.

[Lysah]

Zeus does more damage than Leshrac to a single target...where Leshrac needs to be near melee range for edict to do anything, zeus can sit behind trees spamming lightning bolt. With his passive, simply casting arc/bolt/ult in the middle of the enemy team can easily dish out 700 or more damage a person, depending on their max health, and at near instant speed as well. Zeus is also a fairly reliable mid, simply because bolt at level 5 can send someone to the fountain in two casts. He doesn't get picked because the game is based around the first 20 minutes and he's slow slow slow and therefore can't gank well. I would say he and Lesh do fill similar roles, Zeus just has a lot more range and more reliable damage.

I think Leoric is a lot better than DK. DK gets no damage boost from his skills, Leoric's kit is almost perfect for what I would expect of a carry. Free lifesteal, free crits, a free aegis, and he STILL has a spammable stun/slow. He falls through where a lot of other strength carries fall through right now, games are being played early and he takes a while to become unstoppable. DK wins in picks because he can get a soul ring and spam flame breath to farm a lane even 1v2, and of course because he can farm ancients, although that can still be stopped fairly easily.

Leoric used to be a big thing, look forward to the future I suppose. As the rest of the heroes get added and people eventually man up and try new things you can expect any of the old favorites to become high picks again.

[PizzaSHARK]

Well, I'm not sure I'd consider DK to be a true carry. I guess he does decent damage in the midgame when flame breath damage is relevant and he has decent attack damage simply by virtue of being a STR hero, but in the late game it seems like he's really better just building into a tanky hero that runs in and keeps everything stunned and slowed. His stun has ridiculous uptime and he gets free Skadi in an AOE starting at 16, combine that with his passive... he's pretty tough to kill. Focus on screwing with the enemy team, let your team's real carry worry about butchering everyone.

[Lysah]

I would say that elder form is just ridiculous enough to make DK a considerable carry. Pure ranged cleave and a crippling slow combined is absurd. I just carried as him yesterday! Although my team was pretty much going to win without me...

Elder form has always been ridiculous, I used to tell my friends they had until enemy DK hit level 16 to have fun because it was all over after that.

[PizzaSHARK]

I would say that elder form is just ridiculous enough to make DK a considerable carry. Pure ranged cleave and a crippling slow combined is absurd. I just carried as him yesterday! Although my team was pretty much going to win without me...

Elder form has always been ridiculous, I used to tell my friends they had until enemy DK hit level 16 to have fun because it was all over after that.

Yeah, pretty much the same with an Anti-Mage getting farm. Once he gets a certain few items... well, fun's over, time to hide in fountain.

KOTL is crazy good, swear his mana restore is OP as hell if you have teammates that really benefit from it. We had a BH that was pretty much spamming shuriken on cooldown because I'd just follow him around like a lost puppy and constantly top him off.

[Kurdiern]

Zeus does more damage than Leshrac to a single target...where Leshrac needs to be near melee range for edict to do anything, zeus can sit behind trees spamming lightning bolt. With his passive, simply casting arc/bolt/ult in the middle of the enemy team can easily dish out 700 or more damage a person, depending on their max health, and at near instant speed as well. Zeus is also a fairly reliable mid, simply because bolt at level 5 can send someone to the fountain in two casts. He doesn't get picked because the game is based around the first 20 minutes and he's slow slow slow and therefore can't gank well. I would say he and Lesh do fill similar roles, Zeus just has a lot more range and more reliable damage.

I think Leoric is a lot better than DK. DK gets no damage boost from his skills, Leoric's kit is almost perfect for what I would expect of a carry. Free lifesteal, free crits, a free aegis, and he STILL has a spammable stun/slow. He falls through where a lot of other strength carries fall through right now, games are being played early and he takes a while to become unstoppable. DK wins in picks because he can get a soul ring and spam flame breath to farm a lane even 1v2, and of course because he can farm ancients, although that can still be stopped fairly easily.

Leoric used to be a big thing, look forward to the future I suppose. As the rest of the heroes get added and people eventually man up and try new things you can expect any of the old favorites to become high picks again.

Lesh brings a AOE stun if he's competent as well as some of the best pushing in the game. Plus massive AOE. Much prefer him over Zeus.

[PizzaSHARK]

Lesh brings a AOE stun if he's competent as well as some of the best pushing in the game. Plus massive AOE. Much prefer him over Zeus.

Yeah. Seems like every game I see with Lesh results in that team being like 5k gold ahead at 15 mins due to Lesh just getting free towers and automatic kills if he catches anyone away from creeps. I'm not even sure how you're supposed to deal with it without basically giving Lesh's team free lane wins,

[Lysah]

Get a hero like SB (I know he's never picked, part of the reason Lesh seems so good) who can not only tank his damage but still jump on him and lock him down and Leshrac is done for.

[Ichy]

Yeah. Seems like every game I see with Lesh results in that team being like 5k gold ahead at 15 mins due to Lesh just getting free towers and automatic kills if he catches anyone away from creeps. I'm not even sure how you're supposed to deal with it without basically giving Lesh's team free lane wins,

Love Lesh- one of the few INT heros I can play well- granted he is a "noob" friendly hero. Others are Shadow Shaman n Voodoo

Get a hero like SB (I know he's never picked, part of the reason Lesh seems so good) who can not only tank his damage but still jump on him and lock him down and Leshrac is done for.

I've worried about this while playing Lesh and think after booster/Staff getting a shadow blade helps negate it, plus makes running fast heros down "safer". Your thoughts?

[Lysah]

I would recommend other items for movespeed, Lothar's is an initiation and gank item primarily.

[PizzaSHARK]

I would recommend other items for movespeed, Lothar's is an initiation and gank item primarily.

Just get BKB and SB is no longer relevant. BKB is a pretty common item on Leshrac, anyway.

Saw TongFu manage to lose a game today where they actually managed to pick Naga Siren. It's pretty amusing - she's banned in nearly every game (last stats page I looked at said she was banned in 89 of 96 possible games, and was almost always the very first ban), but when she gets picked her winrate is awful. It's certainly not because she's weak - there's a very good reason she's first ban in all those games.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 05:40 AM ----------

Wondering: Think putting 1 point into Tether early on and going spirits/stats on Wisp would be good? Tether gains a pretty nice 0.5 sec stun per level, but nothing else. The movespeed bonus is the same 20% at lvl 1 as at lvl 4, and so is the duration. Taking those extra stats would help Wisp be a little more tanky, and it just doesn't seem like you're gonna land many Tether stuns at low levels due to lack of boots or positioning items like Force Staff.

Like... Tether, Spirits, Spirits, Stats, Spirits, Relocate, Spirits, and then maybe at least one or two more level of stats, and then maybe alternate Tether and Overcharge. It just feels like the stun on Tether usually doesn't come into play without positioning tools or a setup disable to chain it off of.

[Valedus]

BKB won't stop a SB with a MoM and BKB from Greater Bashing you into oblivion, assuming SB refers to Spiritbreaker. The way you have to deal with a Leshrac on the enemy team is ganking him and killing him in teamfights before he can ever get his bloodstone. Without Bloodstone, he doesn't have the mana regen to keep his ult up for long, and he doesn't have the health to survive sustained damage from multiple targets.

No, I level Tether and Spirits. The fact that it is an aoe stun (hits everything you run through, makes him an amazing babysitter for anyone with another slow or stun. Especially because when you hit 6 your stun is something like 1.6 seconds, which isn't bad at all when you have an early game 3-4 v 2 on another lane.

[Lysah]

SB will also kill Lesh repeatedly before he ever gets BKB, it's not like you can start the game with that item =p

But, this is another case of heroes seeming absurdly strong because their counters are never used. OD shoves Invoker down pretty hard, if you've never had him drain 90% of your mana instantly and been immediately out of the team fight because you can't cast anything then you're a lucky person.

[Kurdiern]

OD is also a pick that either ends up Useful or Useless. Kind of a risky counter for such a solid hero like Invoker.

[Lysah]

I find a support OD who goes for mek/bloodstone, as silly as it sounds, quite useful. The aura is nice, he can actually be fairly tanky, and by buying items like bloodstone you still have mana for your orb to hit absurdly hard. Your ult won't one shot their entire team, but it'll drain their int heroes of almost all of their mana instantly, and you are so much less glass cannon.

And astral prison is extremely useful offensively and defensively. Can totally cancel out a luna ult, for example.

[PizzaSHARK]

I find a support OD who goes for mek/bloodstone, as silly as it sounds, quite useful. The aura is nice, he can actually be fairly tanky, and by buying items like bloodstone you still have mana for your orb to hit absurdly hard. Your ult won't one shot their entire team, but it'll drain their int heroes of almost all of their mana instantly, and you are so much less glass cannon.

And astral prison is extremely useful offensively and defensively. Can totally cancel out a luna ult, for example.

Yeah, but so can Disruption - so just take SD instead. Invoker doesn't seem like a hero worth trying to counterpick; he's too well-rounded, and a hero like OD who might counter him with ulti is very, very fragile in lane and extremely susceptible to ganks. Even if you laned him mid opposite Invoker, I'm pretty sure he'd lose to Invoker, especially if Invoker went the goddamned stupid Exort/Quas build.


I played Visage and was really, really underwhelmed by his familiars. Fragile, huge bounty, they're melee range with relatively poor damage, and almost no vision radius (it's like 200 or 300.) It's a good ulti, but for the amount of micro it requires (on top of Visage himself requiring a lot of micro), it feels a little underwhelming.

[Lysah]

SD is absolutely a lot weaker than OD.

Also the familiars are definitely fairly bad for how hard they are to use.

[Hermanni]

SD is absolutely a lot weaker than OD.

In what sense, exactly? SD won't carry with rightclicks but OD can't solo enemy carry naked. What do we compare to determine which is weaker? Their relative weakness to Windrunner?

You two should have an argument of some kind and the guy with more definitely fucking obviously indescribably superior, um, arguments, could be declared winner.

[Lysah]

In what sense, exactly? SD won't carry with rightclicks but OD can't solo enemy carry naked.

You two should have an argument of some kind and the guy with more definitely fucking obviously indescribably superior, um, arguments, could be declared winner.

More armor, more movespeed, builds into items that give him more health, generally. A bloodstone SD will still get flattened, a bloodstone OD can hit you for 400 a shot. At the end of the day, one is a carry and one is not.