1. #2681
    Tree has the best winrate of all heroes. Irony?

    Sven can't be kited because he kills people in three hits. If you survive more than a few hits either you got ridiculously fed or he's an idiot. He gets a battlefury for FREE which means he can farm the jungle with ease naked. Means he can play support early game and very easily transition into a carry late game when he starts farming for carry items. If you want to call that a role, then there you go. He's a carry that doesn't need farm in his early game lane.



    I also agree to not play AP if you're looking for a fair game. AP was the joke mode of DotA1, no one I knew who played competitively ever played AP. It only caught on in DotA2 because it was the only choice. Play RD or SD and you will have a better time. If you really are better than the people you get matched with, pick a hard carry. If you have a new friend with 0 games played so you get matched with far worse players, you will notice it is a LOT easier to win if you pick Luna than if you pick Tide. It's the same in all MOBAs, the carry is just too important to leave to the worst player on the team. Supports are replaceable and, honestly, if the carry gets farmed enough, entirely unnecessary.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-21 at 11:07 PM.

  2. #2682
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Tree has the best winrate of all heroes. Irony?
    can someone explain to me why ? 0o
    i understand lycan
    and ursa
    and lich
    but tree?!

  3. #2683
    The Patient Varix's Avatar
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    Played my first game of Meepo today

    Went 11/6/8, game ended in 33 minutes. Meepo is a lot of fun, but way too stressful for me to play on a regular basis, call me a casual. The game was mainly won by our Enigma who had one 5-man Black Hole after another throughout the game. I felt like I was playing the piano after I hit level 16, I can't imagine what it will be like with Scepter Meepo too.

    I really enjoy Meepo though, I'll be honest. He is a very... different hero. His voice acting is great too, it feels great ganging up on one enemy hero caught out with all of your Meepos. Gotta give some more credit to that Enigma though. 5-man Black Hole, proceed to "Poof" spam, get rampage, win game.

  4. #2684
    i was just forced to play WR mid and damn quick phase boots and force staff helps soooo much getting these double shackles <3

  5. #2685
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Lysah you should be excited about the 6.75 notes. They're buffing the crap out of Gyro, looks like.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  6. #2686
    Dreadlord Nightfury Treann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Lysah you should be excited about the 6.75 notes. They're buffing the crap out of Gyro, looks like.
    huh?! what are they gonna do to the Gyro?
    "#Got99ProblemsAndTreannAintOne" ~ElyPop

  7. #2687
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    but tree?!
    I'm not really sure either. I consider him highly superior to Tide defensively, but it's rare to see someone play him well. It doesn't feel like I see him win much but when I check my friend's records with him they're all 60-70% wins.

    @pizza
    I'm pretty sure Gyro is already the highest burst AoE of any carry by far, what more does he really need? >_>

  8. #2688
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFury Treann View Post
    huh?! what are they gonna do to the Gyro?
    Two things that really stood out are he's going to 315 base speed from 305 and his missile will provide vision of the target the entire time.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-22 at 02:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    I'm not really sure either. I consider him highly superior to Tide defensively, but it's rare to see someone play him well. It doesn't feel like I see him win much but when I check my friend's records with him they're all 60-70% wins.

    @pizza
    I'm pretty sure Gyro is already the highest burst AoE of any carry by far, what more does he really need? >_>
    Yeah I've never seen a good answer to Tree's unusually high win rate. He just seems like a crappy version of Tidehunter to me. The only thing that would make sense to me is Tree's team using his invisibility constantly and pubs being too stupid to ward or buy dust.

    EDIT: What is the reason for Omniknight and Leoric no longer seeing use? Were they just popular due to a more limited hero roster?
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-22 at 07:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  9. #2689
    Tree forces enemy team to waste gold on true sight without the drawback of being a wasted carry pick when they do. Leech seed is a VERY strong move in general, especially early game, and his ult is the ultimate hard carry counter. Yes, you can BKB out of it, but you can't just hold your BKB forever and let supports like Rubick stunfuck you all day. So you use your BKB to go in and try to clear the support out real fast so you don't get chainstunned - ROFLROOTS wasted BKB dead PA.

    Tide is an initiator, Tree is a counter initiator. They have different roles. Of course you're going to get called a noob if you use roots before anyone has used his BKB in a fight.

    I'm not sure why omni/leo aren't common picks these days. Most lineups are ranged oriented, the current professional scene is all about focus poking for kills and retreating during cooldowns, doesn't give you a lot of room for aggressive heroes like leo/omni.

  10. #2690
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Tree forces enemy team to waste gold on true sight without the drawback of being a wasted carry pick when they do. Leech seed is a VERY strong move in general, especially early game, and his ult is the ultimate hard carry counter. Yes, you can BKB out of it, but you can't just hold your BKB forever and let supports like Rubick stunfuck you all day. So you use your BKB to go in and try to clear the support out real fast so you don't get chainstunned - ROFLROOTS wasted BKB dead PA.

    Tide is an initiator, Tree is a counter initiator. They have different roles. Of course you're going to get called a noob if you use roots before anyone has used his BKB in a fight.

    I'm not sure why omni/leo aren't common picks these days. Most lineups are ranged oriented, the current professional scene is all about focus poking for kills and retreating during cooldowns, doesn't give you a lot of room for aggressive heroes like leo/omni.
    I've never gotten a really straight answer on why a hero would rise up or fall down without changes to the game itself; just because a given team discovered a gimmick that took other teams off guard doesn't mean that new gimmick is the best way to play, or that the previous ways of playing have somehow been invalidated.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-22 at 11:32 AM ----------



    https://dotabuff.com/matches/42832766

    Enemy Profit going full on carry build, spending the entire game farming tells me as a hard support KotL (leaving creep waves and jungle for teammates) to "get carried" as we kill their ancient. Scorecard? This Profit has like 370 gpm. As a full support KotL playing as a 5, I have 320. Get carried, huh?
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-09-22 at 04:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  11. #2691
    Dreadlord Nightfury Treann's Avatar
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    That missile vision is kinda OP, it's like tracking with a Slardar or BH.
    "#Got99ProblemsAndTreannAintOne" ~ElyPop

  12. #2692
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFury Treann View Post
    That missile vision is kinda OP, it's like tracking with a Slardar or BH.
    I don't think it's gonna be true sight. The notes I was reading was saying it was like revision 17 of 34? I haven't been able to find notes that have a more recent source, though.

    The notes in general are a fucking mess, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to where given changes go, they definitely aren't grouped by hero.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  13. #2693
    leaked patch notes were (most likely) for internal tests only

  14. #2694
    The Patient hellgrazer's Avatar
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    i really want to see some morphling nerfs...

  15. #2695
    Quote Originally Posted by hellgrazer View Post
    i really want to see some morphling nerfs...
    If they give Morphling anything other than minor number nerfs, he'll probably go back to never being picked again in competitive games faster than you can say trend shift. I'd be sad, it wasn't long ago when I cheered for Morphling every game he was picked in in Joindota Masters after a long dry period.

    It's probably just me but I don't think almost any heroes really need nerfs, just looking forward to seeing some (Clockwerk) buffed and how the map changes play out.



    Manni | paragon.fi | Dota 2 forum | The golden rule: Listen to Lysah.

  16. #2696
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    It's probably just me but I don't think almost any heroes really need nerfs, just looking forward to seeing some (Clockwerk) buffed and how the map changes play out.
    yeah im also expecting buffs of underplayed heroes

    its funny how ppl scream morph OP while not so long ago he was trash pick

  17. #2697
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I've never gotten a really straight answer on why a hero would rise up or fall down without changes to the game itself; just because a given team discovered a gimmick that took other teams off guard doesn't mean that new gimmick is the best way to play, or that the previous ways of playing have somehow been invalidated.
    You might recall how I've explained that pros do NOT try new things in tournaments when money is on the line. DotA is pretty balanced, no hero is really that much better than any other, and every playstyle has a counter. You can stop wolf from jungling, in fact, a while back wolf was a joke pick in competitive play for this reason. AM has also gone through his joke pick phase, as well as morphling, as has been said.

    Although, morphling didn't used to get free stats from learning morph, which is the main change that took him from "meh" to "GG they picked morph." His ability to farm used to be anywhere from low to extremely terrible and he was shut down in lane by a number of heroes. Now he just morphs agility at level 3 and has 90 damage, he can just morph strength the second he gets jumped on. Silence needs to turn morph strength off and I'll be happy.

    Heroes like Tiny have been huge in the past, and you saw how quickly he got banned in TI2 when he got used again. It's not really about gimmicks, think of it this way. DotA is a giant game a rock, paper, scissors. Currently, the pros have rock down to an art. They both pick rock and they see who can be a better rock. When someone figures out how to play paper, they're going to start crushing rock over and over and over. You think the old rock players are going to start playing scissors? Nope, they're going to start copying paper and trying to simply be a better paper. Trying to come up with new strategies in the middle of tournaments is how you lose a lot of money.

    Heroes like Invoker will probably always be huge picks because they aren't really countered. Carries will come and go, however, as will supports. Hybrids are generally just too good at what they do to ever be bad picks by definition. Support carries are incredibly popular right now, but they always will be to some degree, just because the concept of someone who can put out consistent and reliable CC while also doing damage is exactly what you need to do to secure kills.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-09-22 at 10:05 PM.

  18. #2698
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post

    Heroes like Tiny have been huge in the past, and you saw how quickly he got banned in TI2 when he got used again. It's not really about gimmicks, think of it this way. DotA is a giant game a rock, paper, scissors. Currently, the pros have rock down to an art. They both pick rock and they see who can be a better rock. When someone figures out how to play paper, they're going to start crushing rock over and over and over. You think the old rock players are going to start playing scissors? Nope, they're going to start copying paper and trying to simply be a better paper. Trying to come up with new strategies in the middle of tournaments is how you lose a lot of money.
    I have to disagree here, most of the pro teams(esp chinese) do indeed draft only from the certain hero pool, but there are plenty of teams who come up with their own thing like Na´vi did with Juggernaut and Void picks during TI2.
    Or for example Axe was picked several times before TI2, during Defense or Dreamcast im not sure which one anymore.But every once in a while teams do draft unusually.


    On topic of Omni, during one of the talkdota´s someone asked Puppey why he wasnt picked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Q0AW0xRNk 08:20

  19. #2699
    You still don't see SB much.

  20. #2700
    How do you guys deal with the amount of russians lately? I'm not saying every one of them is a bad player, but when I go out for a match, I usually get put in a russian team where the guy calls mid before he even picks, proceeds to feed and just talks and swears in russian with another-two russians, thinking people understand them.

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