[Megathread] DotA 2

[Hraklea]

The people who win tourneys are not even the best players, because the best players don't go to tourneys.

Yeah, I'm the best soccer player in the world, I can own Messi easily, I just don't like to play in public.

[Silent]

Man all this talk about Wind Runner really wants me to play her now :<
You got ganked and managed to run away, but they're still chasing you ? Np! Shackle Shot them and laugh

[Deleted]

man this really makes me want to play dota 2, i have been trying to get in the beta forever but with no luck, if anyone has any tips on how to get in (i have sgned in for the beta test obviously) i would be glad to hear them. Or if anyone happen to have a spare key lying around.

[Freezymcgee]

man this really makes me want to play dota 2, i have been trying to get in the beta forever but with no luck, if anyone has any tips on how to get in (i have sgned in for the beta test obviously) i would be glad to hear them. Or if anyone happen to have a spare key lying around.

When you fill out the beta app make it appear as though you have been playing the game for a long time and are super pro

[Duilliath]

Also I just finally realized your avatar is a wolf.

Took you long enough

[Thigrai]

Took you long enough

My life has been a lie! :O

[Lysah]

To be fair, the esports part of Dota 2 (even though the game is still in development) is thriving. Hell, Na'Vi won one million dollars for placing first in the Dota 2 international tournament last year, and the runner up won 250,000 dollars. I remember watching one of Na'vi's matches with Purge commentating, man those are some good players. That all said, you are right about Windrunner taking a bit more experience in order to properly shackle players, especially if that player is practiced in avoiding it. Personally I think a character like Dragon Knight is easier to start off as.

Yes, but this is a misconception of the community. Because we sit on forums about LoL and DotA2 all day and watch nothing but streams we get the impression that the world revolves around these games (I'm being intentionally hyperbolic here to make a point).

A million USD really isn't much money, even a million people isn't that much of a fan base. Compare a million gamers to the hundreds of millions of people involved in "real" world sports. I don't mean to say that there is no backing for these titles as mediums of entertainment, I mean that it is much easier to discern the "top" of a sport like football (whichever) when the entire world is involved with it. How many people participate in esports tournaments? You want to assume that these are the best players - but you have no proof. No evidence, only circumstance. There is no qualification, theoretically, any team could form up and be in the next major tournament that you've never heard of. In fact, how many of the current teams did you know existed before you saw them in tournaments? I don't even mean necessarily for DotA2; this can apply to WoW raiding, CS, LoL, SC2, anything. The "best player" changes around quite a bit in this community. Ask yourself if this is because it really is so hard to stay on top of a relatively small community, or is it because the people you thought were the best last year really weren't, just the people who are the best this year weren't playing against them.

DotA isn't a very hard game, and WR isn't the toughest hero. I don't recommend her for newer players because she has a very, very specific role she fills. Besides, in public games people are going to see a low presence int and expect you to ward and chicken, prepare to be flamed every single game when anything goes from for anyone. You're bot and top is feeding? You didn't buy them enough wards and gank enough. Your partner bot is doing poorly? You ruined his lane and didn't counter ward with all the gold you supposedly have even though you're letting him last hit because he's a carry. And so on. Newer players should be experiencing heroes who aren't so, dare I say..."important." DK was a good example, he has a very useful hard CC as well as an AoE nuke, and he is also a very *strong* hero that will have an easier time laning in most situations. You don't have to be expected to know how to support, or to carry, you can kind of do everything with him.

For completely new players. She's not talking about tournament play.

I don't want to waste my team beating a dead horse, but this isn't at all what I mean. I've written it out a few times now but I've decided not to post it, people have proven they can't understand. I'll just say that you're comparing apples and oranges and I'm over here talking about cars.

[Duilliath]

I don't recommend her for newer players because she has a very, very specific role she fills.

...

I don't want to waste my team beating a dead horse, but this isn't at all what I mean.

I'll leave it at that.

[Jinto]

I suggest everyone go watch his replays and then read his comments. Makes it so much more hilarious.

[Hermanni]

When you fill out the beta app make it appear as though you have been playing the game for a long time and are super pro

They want new players in the game as well, even if you rate yourself as a complete noob in the survey you still have a chance to get in. If you don't get lucky with the invitations, you could try some others places like the playdota.com daily key draw.

[Freezymcgee]

They want new players in the game as well, even if you rate yourself as a complete noob in the survey you still have a chance to get in. If you don't get lucky with the invitations, you could try some others places like the playdota.com daily key draw.

Yeah this would be the most logical, just myself and a couple friends filled out the app like that and we all got invites in week~, maybe just luck

[Jaxi]

Yes, but this is a misconception of the community. Because we sit on forums about LoL and DotA2 all day and watch nothing but streams we get the impression that the world revolves around these games (I'm being intentionally hyperbolic here to make a point).

A million USD really isn't much money, even a million people isn't that much of a fan base. Compare a million gamers to the hundreds of millions of people involved in "real" world sports. I don't mean to say that there is no backing for these titles as mediums of entertainment, I mean that it is much easier to discern the "top" of a sport like football (whichever) when the entire world is involved with it. How many people participate in esports tournaments? You want to assume that these are the best players - but you have no proof. No evidence, only circumstance. There is no qualification, theoretically, any team could form up and be in the next major tournament that you've never heard of. In fact, how many of the current teams did you know existed before you saw them in tournaments? I don't even mean necessarily for DotA2; this can apply to WoW raiding, CS, LoL, SC2, anything. The "best player" changes around quite a bit in this community. Ask yourself if this is because it really is so hard to stay on top of a relatively small community, or is it because the people you thought were the best last year really weren't, just the people who are the best this year weren't playing against them.

1) I thought you were comparing Dota 2 amongst only the esports community, not to the sports community at large. At that rate, I don't even consider computer games a sport, so there would be no comparison at all for me.
2) While it is true to say that a person is not necessarily the best simply because they win a major tournament, it is fair, however, to judge that person as one of the best players BECAUSE they do engage themselves in the tournament of elites and triumph. Usually we value players not because their statistics show that they are the "best," but more because they win the end all game. I mean hell, Eli Manning making the claim that he is one of the top 10 quarterbacks because he's won two superbowls is pretty bold considering he led the league in most turnovers back in 2010. This player is still one of only eleven quarterback starters to win two or more superbowls, and thus considered one of the greats! Is he a better quarterback then let's say Aaron Rodgers? You would be hard pressed convincing me that he is, but at the end of the day his 9-7 team triumphed in the tournament, and that is what matters for the league. The same can be said of the Na'vi and the other tournament winners.

[Fencers]

When I filled out the beta form said I knew nothing about DOTA nor had much experience. Got a key like 3 days later.

[Hermanni]

1) I thought you were comparing Dota 2 amongst only the esports community, not to the sports community at large. At that rate, I don't even consider computer games a sport, so there would be no comparison at all for me.
2) While it is true to say that a person is not necessarily the best simply because they win a major tournament, it is fair, however, to judge that person as one of the best players BECAUSE they do engage themselves in the tournament of elites and triumph. Usually we value players not because their statistics show that they are the "best," but more because they win the end all game. I mean hell, Eli Manning making the claim that he is one of the top 10 quarterbacks because he's won two superbowls is pretty bold considering he led the league in most turnovers back in 2010. This player is still one of only eleven quarterback starters to win two or more superbowls, and thus considered one of the greats! Is he a better quarterback then let's say Aaron Rodgers? You would be hard pressed convincing me that he is, but at the end of the day his 9-7 team triumphed in the tournament, and that is what matters for the league. The same can be said of the Na'vi and the other tournament winners.

This is starting to sound like a broken record but I'll chip in one more time. Of course you can get good by just playing casual - in fact, you can get really good from just playing casual. But the truth is, Dota is a team game where individual performance only gets you so far. Even if you're capable of consistently stomping everyone in Matchmaking with any hero your skills are admirable but limited. To have the skills to beat a consistent high-level team, you need to play against them when they're trying their best and that is only possible in a tournament or a high-level scrim or inhouse. To prove yourself is another matter. And if you could consistently perform in scrims and inhouses, why wouldn't you take the logical next step and try yourself out in some tournament? It makes no sense. The best Pudge player in the world probably isn't Dendi but some wc3 era veteran, but does anyone care if someone can land more hooks in a random game somewhere?

The bottom line is you're not among the best in Dota when you can beat the good players - It's when you can beat the good teams.

And I know I was never suggesting Mirana and Windrunner to be great beginner heroes, because they really aren't. New players a lot better off starting with Tidehunter or Lich or Skeleton King, but no matter what hero you give them they won't be able to force their perhaps slightly more skilled opponents out of their lanes with any hero. You don't make anything easier for anyone by making eccentric but vague statements and backing them up with even more vague comments with a hint of superiority.

Thing is, however, that I did help a friend who had virtually no experience in the genre learn the game. He started off with Tidehunter or Lich in most games, but when he got the basics down he started picking Windrunner in every game he could, and he not only improved a lot but also was effective in all games. When you got the basics down, you can learn a lot about the game by playing a flexible intermediate-difficulty hero like Windrunner or Mirana - hopefully at least how to avoid arrows and shackles.


Edit: While I'm at it, the VOD of the Mousesports vs. EG game from last night is now online - a bit slow in the first minutes but easily the most exciting game I've watched in a while http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E2Nc...ature=youtu.be

[Deleted]

How exactly do you see if you got a key? Because I really don't use Steam that much (still from the good old Counterstrike days).

[Kurdiern]

Game was amazing. EG vs Mouze, showed it to my friend who doesn't play DotA2. He got pretty psyched by it. One of the best matches I've ever seen really.

[Servion]

How exactly do you see if you got a key? Because I really don't use Steam that much (still from the good old Counterstrike days).

First you open library, on the top right corner, theres a mailbox, click on that. Normally when you get a gift, it usually pop on when you have steam open, GL.

[Duilliath]

Signed up for the beta.

[Jangri-]

Saw the EG vs Mouz live. It was downright epic. And that veno, ohh man

[Kurdiern]

Saw the EG vs Mouz live. It was downright epic. And that veno, ohh man

He's going for a record. Poor EG.Maelk xD