[Megathread] DotA 2

[Jester Joe]

November 14, 2014
"Head to the update page to get your first peek at a deal with incalculable ramifications, then come back next week to learn more."

Where is that, on the actual update logs for the game?

Who checks those?!

Oh, it's also right under the comic.

...who reads that?!

[PizzaSHARK]

Oh Valve, showing yet again that your time doesn't follow normal logic. Figured at least by now they'd post day 2 of the update.



Honestly this is something that threw me off about Dota at first. If you told me Blink would be good on Slark when I first started I would be like "But he already has bounce, why would you waste the gold on something he can already basically do on his own?" but now I could see that working. Now I'm gonna go get blink on Anti Mage and Queen of Pain obviously though

Because blink is probably the most overpowered mechanic possible in an RTS or RTS-like game. It makes Stalkers really difficult to balance in SC2, and there was a reason it was a hero ability in War3. Being able to instantly move from point A to point B in any direction is enormously powerful when a great many things in RTS-like games is balanced by the time it takes to move from point A to point B.

Blinker probably needs another price nerf. It's just so cheap for how incredibly powerful it is since it doesn't have MP cost anymore. Lack of stats doesn't matter much when it provides a "stat" you can't get anywhere else. Force Staff is slower, shorter, and has a longer cooldown and only moves in one direction for same gold cost. Lothar's is much slower, has a longer cooldown, noticeable mana cost, and is almost 800 gold more expensive. Right now it's pretty much blinker or don't get any of those at all unless you're a support that's getting force staff for a specific reason (pushing people out of cogs, etc.)

[Omertocracy]

Now I'm gonna go get blink on Anti Mage and Queen of Pain obviously though

[veiledy0]

Blinker probably needs another price nerf. It's just so cheap for how incredibly powerful it is since it doesn't have MP cost anymore. Lack of stats doesn't matter much when it provides a "stat" you can't get anywhere else. Force Staff is slower, shorter, and has a longer cooldown and only moves in one direction for same gold cost. Lothar's is much slower, has a longer cooldown, noticeable mana cost, and is almost 800 gold more expensive. Right now it's pretty much blinker or don't get any of those at all unless you're a support that's getting force staff for a specific reason (pushing people out of cogs, etc.)

Blink Dagger nerf wouldn't cause other items to get picked up more. It would only cause Blink Dagger to be picked up less. That's why it'd be a lot better to buff the other items instead, so all 3 are very good.

[PizzaSHARK]

Blink Dagger nerf wouldn't cause other items to get picked up more. It would only cause Blink Dagger to be picked up less. That's why it'd be a lot better to buff the other items instead, so all 3 are very good.

Sure it would. Blink dagger would no longer be clearly superior to the other items.

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

Blink could use some nerf and I don't think it would be bad if force or shadow blade wasn't buffed either. The items have their value, but not in every situation and games which end up with 8/10 heroes having blink daggers, some of them having even force on top of that became really common and that seems really bad to me. It's fun item, but when everyone needs it to stay relevant, it defeats its purpose.

[EqualWin]

oh im so sick of PA already, i dont enjoying playing her. and shes always picked on the enemy team, im forced to counter her or get rekt.


and now theres a fkn arcana gj

[PizzaSHARK]

oh im so sick of PA already, i dont enjoying playing her. and shes always picked on the enemy team, im forced to counter her or get rekt.


and now theres a fkn arcana gj

Blatantly OP heroes are picked very often in allpick, more news at 11.

[EqualWin]

it wasn't that bad, but now she's going to have arcana 100% pick rate.


if you ask me i find slark better than PA, both are picked a lot

[Jester Joe]

oh im so sick of PA already, i dont enjoying playing her. and shes always picked on the enemy team, im forced to counter her or get rekt.


and now theres a fkn arcana gj

But that PA arcana is beautiful.

I want it actually. Also to be fair, Legion Commander only suffered from the "must show of arcana!" phase for a bit, I'd suspect eventually using her just for the arcana will die out.

I'd also go out on a limb and say that it's not just because she's "OP" she's picked, but because she's rather simple to pick up, but can be difficult to master to a degree. She's not a carry that depends on needing huge farm to even come online like some of them are, she's good once she hits level 6 basically. Also I've said it before, but that crit animation is so satisfying.

[Crackleslap]

Aawww yis, another hero returns!

Except it's Oracle.

People won't know how to play Oracle.

Oh boy.

[Omertocracy]

Aawww yis, another hero returns!

Except it's Oracle.

People won't know how to play Oracle.

Oh boy.

Press R, lose game?

[Crackleslap]

Press R, lose game?

Talking about his other abilities.... Using them in the wrong circumstance.

[PizzaSHARK]

PA arcana looks kinda lame, if you ask me. Like a glowy green version of LC arcana, honestly.

Interesting to see BM and Nix added to CM. I wonder if people will try to use Nix at all... hero just feels really weird right now. Almost no incentive to ever put more than 1 point into Icarus Dive, Sunray is... kinda bad... and I feel like Supernova is probably too easy for even semi-coordinated teams to kill. Agh's upgrade feels more like a griefing tool than anything else, but I guess it might be useful with heroes whose true ults are regular skills (Dirge etc?)

Too bad... I really wanna like the hero, but he just feels really weak right now.

[Crackleslap]

PA arcana looks kinda lame, if you ask me. Like a glowy green version of LC arcana, honestly.

Interesting to see BM and Nix added to CM. I wonder if people will try to use Nix at all... hero just feels really weird right now. Almost no incentive to ever put more than 1 point into Icarus Dive, Sunray is... kinda bad... and I feel like Supernova is probably too easy for even semi-coordinated teams to kill. Agh's upgrade feels more like a griefing tool than anything else, but I guess it might be useful with heroes whose true ults are regular skills (Dirge etc?)

Too bad... I really wanna like the hero, but he just feels really weak right now.

This is why you combo Supanova with another spell. = death.

[Deleted]

Imo aghs on phoenix can be very good even without heroes that can utilize the cooldown reset (TB comes to mind, naga maybe, dirge), but it requires teamwork and good timing, so not so great for pubs, I can see how it could be great in pro games though.
Overall though I expected it would work differently - either that there were two suns with reduced dmg (or not being able to be damaged from both at the same time) or that phoenix himself would stay out of the sun and only ally went in, allowing him to better cover him with the birds attack speed slow. This way...I don't know, it's not wasted gold because there are not that many items phoenix benefits from, but it's just not as good as some other heroes' aghs.

[PizzaSHARK]

This is why you combo Supanova with another spell. = death.

Yeah, but it's a goddamn 6 second channel for only a 2 sec stun at max level. I'd almost rather they just remove the damn stun and reduce the channel time or something, at least then it'd be more useful. Right now it's either you drop it on top of some kind of other massive AOE (wombo combo), where the stun/damage probably makes almost no difference anyway, or you have to use it pretty much purely defensively because it's so piss-easy for the enemy team to kill the sun if they're even the least bit coordinated.

I feel like Icarus Dive not worth putting more than 1 point into and Sunray being almost entirely useless are bigger issues with the hero, though. When +2 stats is more attractive than two of your abilities, you know something's wrong with that hero.

[veiledy0]

Supernova is probably too easy for even semi-coordinated teams to kill.

Ofc it is if you just use it 'cause you're gonna die. Lay an array of spirits, Tornado+Meteor/Jakiro Ult+Liquid Fire over it and see how easy it is. Use it on top of the Rosh pit where no one can reach you, etc. It's a zoning ability countered by bkb, pretty much like every support's ult is anyways.

[StrawberryZebra]

Yeah, but it's a goddamn 6 second channel for only a 2 sec stun at max level.

-snip-

I feel like Icarus Dive not worth putting more than 1 point into and Sunray being almost entirely useless are bigger issues with the hero, though. When +2 stats is more attractive than two of your abilities, you know something's wrong with that hero.

Its also worth mentioning that Supernova also deals as much as 600 damage over its duration, and has a very large radius too. It will deal some pretty heavy damage if you can channel it fully. You can safely channel it out of line of sight or in a position that forces enemies to either retreat or to eat a lot of extra damage from your team if they commit to killing you. Its not a brilliant ult by any stretch of the imagination, but its certainly useful.

Sunray too can deal some very impressive damage over the full duration, especially if you manage to get multiple enemy heroes caught in it. Its pure damage and based on the enemies maximum health, allowing you to deal some serious damage to tanky heroes, especially the ones who are likely to buy some extra magic resistance like Pudge or Centaur. The healing effect is pretty weak, but the best case scenario, IE hitting all of the other 9 Heroes in the game, for Sunray is disgustingly good.

Phoenix's biggest problem is that he needs someone else to help him set up his damage for the largest possible effect. He (She? It? Whatever) is not alone in having this issue. Given the choice even guys like Earthshaker or Sand King would want another Hero helping set them up for maximum potential damage, not to mention people like Lich and Venomancer love having setups too. Unlike the above though, Phoenix is of limited effectiveness without allies to help him out, teams tend to get out of his AoE fast if they're not forced to stay there, and the absolute worst thing that can happen for Phoenix is when teams spread out to avoid his Ray. Thats not to say he's going to be totally useless, but he's far more dependent on having the right sort of team setup than other more versatile heroes are.