[Megathread] DotA 2

[LiiLoSNK]

I'm gonna tank my support personal ratings so people never want me to fill that role.

Cause that's the Dota 2 Dream.

[Lysah]

BUT WHERE ARE MY IMMORTALS III



Announcing more stuff we have to wait on, am I the only one not excited

[LiiLoSNK]

On the bright side, since dota 2 will be going back into beta, valve won't have to waste time renaming the currently mislabeled dota 2 folder. They can spend those precious few extra seconds working on your immortals.

[M1r4g3]

I thought it was some nice fanmade ui lol. did not expect that many changes from source 2 also CUSTOM GAMES AFIHNSABGFQIUBRGEIGBVTIWVNJORKIW

[EqualWin]

bought one chest and got dk set, its so good and the hud too holy shit. Along with dota 2 reborn the new ui is go fkn good cant wait til we get it, best day ever top lel

[Deleted]

Well, my first time ever in low priority after like 3000 hours.

Can I just afk jungle every game, or can the low priority time extend if I get reported down here too?

Edit:
NVM, it appears that the other team just agrees to feed with couriers etc. and lets the opposing team push to base. I feel like this isn't what volvo had in mind when they came up with low priority.

[Kralljin]

Specifically from my 14 games of experience with tusk, he's actually not that easy to kill and can still come back into the match even if you somehow start out as something like 0-3 (I've had this happen when being too over confident). Snowball outlasts so many snares, slows, and spells in the game that it can be used pretty well defensively. You have a miniature Fissure to separate you and any melee enemies, and you have a controllable aoe movement/attack speed slow.

While Snowball can be used defensively, you usually use it go get closer to the enemy right away (or simply initiate).

There are items like Silver edge or Blink which allow you to not use Snowball as Gap Closer but you need those items first, if you go Phase / Bottle / Drums, you already spent nearly 4k Gold, if a game doesn't go well that is quite a lot for a hero that usually sits on a lane where he can't farm.

Also, you cannot always use every skill defensively, if you initiate on someone and the gank goes wrong, Snowball and Ice Shards may be on Cooldown, leaving you with the option to run away with Sigil, which may not work out if the enemy has any disable available.

Also you don't really need items for him to do well early. As soon as you hit level 6, anyone under 100% life is a potential solo kill.

You don't need items early on, but later on you need items that Walrus Punch does serious damage to highly armored targets.

Sure you can keep focusing on squishy supports, but if they survive your Snowball / Iceshard / Punch combo, you have a problem, if you go on something like Lion and he survives you end up hex'd + stunned and roll over you with his Ult.

[LiiLoSNK]

Yea if things go south or you make tons of mistakes, I can see how tusk would be at quite the disadvantage. Taking advantage of how strong he is early game is vital to playing the hero correctly, it seems like.

[PizzaSHARK]

Why do people think WR is a good offlane? She's been a terrible, easily bullied offlane for years. They made offlane retard-proof to the point that virtually any hero can do it (seriously, people do fucking offlane Pudge and succeed), but that doesn't make WR any better at it. She's still super easy to bully and doesn't have much potential to kill the enemy safelaner when the supports rotate elsewhere.

[Kralljin]

Yea if things go south or you make tons of mistakes, I can see how tusk would be at quite the disadvantage. Taking advantage of how strong he is early game is vital to playing the hero correctly, it seems like.

Point is that Tusk has hardly any impact on the game if things go wrong, Tusks major strength are ganks, which he can't pull off if he's underfarmed.
His Teamfight ability is not that great, he dies even faster in Teamfight + his impact isn't that great.

And Tusk can't really farm well to recover, while Ice Shards and Snowball can clear out Creep waves and camps pretty fast, it's too mana intensive.

Which also leads to the point that if your team plays too passive, you can't do much as Tusk, Supports do not wander around solo that often during early and unless you have a big level advantage, they will not die to a full combo and require a few right klicks to die, during which they obviously fight back / run away which will give the enemy team an easy chance to kill you.

If you fall back with Tusk once, the potential to come back is quite small.

Why do people think WR is a good offlane? She's been a terrible, easily bullied offlane for years. They made offlane retard-proof to the point that virtually any hero can do it (seriously, people do fucking offlane Pudge and succeed), but that doesn't make WR any better at it. She's still super easy to bully and doesn't have much potential to kill the enemy safelaner when the supports rotate elsewhere.

She has a Long range Damage spell & Escape Tool, what do you want more on an Offlane hero?

Also, i can hardly see how enemy Support heroes can easily force her out of lane, unless we're talking about Tri lane.

WR can kill enemy Carries if they're squishy, Shackleshot + Powershot has a decent kill potential and Windwalk even allows you to dive towers.
Next to it, a Melee Carry can do shit vs. WR, Ranged Carries have issues trading blows with her because Windrun.

The question if you can do Offlane simply depends on the enemy support, if you have passive Omni or ES sitting there, almost any Hero can go Offlane.

She's a good offlaner because she can take serious advantage if the enemy support is playing too passive and fight back if he's very aggresive.

[LiiLoSNK]

And my point is, by playing correctly, its hard to fall behind because of how strong he is. Being 13-1 in the highest skill bracket proves this.

It's hard to see where you are coming from because I never play bad enough to fall so far behind.

[Kralljin]

And my point is, by playing correctly, its hard to fall behind because of how strong he is. Being 13-1 in the highest skill bracket proves this.

Yes, because nonranked Pub games at any difficulty prove anything.

It's hard to see where you are coming from because I never play bad enough to fall so far behind.

Now that's a great argument, "I don't play bad so there's no problem".

[LiiLoSNK]

Consistently winning solo queues against good people with a ridiculously high k/d/a kinda proves something. How else would you like me to prove to you that you don't know what you're talking about?

[Lysah]

I like Tusk, but he doesn't scale very well even considering his free crit ultimate. If you don't get items to keep improving your damage you will fall off into creep status mid game. Ice shards are nice but once everyone starts shitting blinks, force staffs, and SYs and running around at 500 movespeed the block is pretty meaningless in most situations. Snowball is always useful but there are a lot of other heroes that have great defensive spells that trump it. Sigil is actually always godly but only really applies to melee carrys, and Omni does the same thing and his is permanent and passive and he brings GA and repel too. Really Tusk is one of those jack of all trades heroes that is a good pick for almost any game but not a great pick for any of them. This makes him a fantastic pick for public games but I doubt he will ever rise to the top of competitive tier lists. His ultimate is very strong, though.

[Kralljin]

Consistently winning solo queues against good people with a ridiculously high k/d/a kinda proves something.

Point remains, unranked Pubs aren't the best place to call such things, because they're unranked and hardly anybody cares about what happens there.

How else would you like me to prove to you that you don't know what you're talking about?

The Argument "hard to fall behind if played correctly" virtually applies for any Hero.

Even if you are above making mistakes, your mates make mistakes which will affect you, your team might still come back later on but probably not because of Tusk.

Really Tusk is one of those jack of all trades heroes that is a good pick for almost any game but not a great pick for any of them. This makes him a fantastic pick for public games but I doubt he will ever rise to the top of competitive tier lists. His ultimate is very strong, though.

I think Tusk is quite dependant on Picks, first your own picks and the enemy picks.

With mates like Cent / Tiny / Slardar / Riki, Tusk can totally snowball with a bit of coordination.

Also, enemy picks like DK / NS totally hurt Tusk, in general high armored or tanky targets are an issue for Tusk, if the enemy is an position to fight back after Ice Shards / Snow Ball / Punch you may run into problems.

In games there is usually at least one squishy target, but sometimes you need to use your Punch on other targets to stop them, if those have naturally high armor ratings, then your Punch won't do much except for the 1sec stun.

While on the other hand, heroes like WD are just fodder for Tusk, they can do shit to stop them.

[RobertoCarlos]

Tusk's greatest strength is snowballing, excuse the pun. Theres not many heroes with better early game ganking potential. And in this current meta getting the lead early and snowballing works great. I agree hes not top tier like a lion or omni pick. But never underestimate his potential to be a game winner.

[LiiLoSNK]

So even though most people play unranked pubs, pub data can't be used to determine if a hero is good or not? So I guess we will have to use pro-game data then. People care about that right? Trying to use your logic here.

In the last month, Tusk has won 30 out of 50 pro games. In the majority of the games, he is used as a support, something that by your logic isn't possible because he needs phys damage items to "make his walrus punch hurt". His abilities alone are enough to make him useful to his team. Congratulations on being wrong again I guess since this is pro data we are talking about.

And yes he can snowball insanely hard. This is because his late game isn't great. He obviously wont be 1v1ing 6 slotted troll warlords. They give him strong early game for his lack of a late game. For someone to say it's easy for tusk to fall off early when he has such a strong early game is the dumbest thing I've ever read. It's like saying "Well tinker falls off early if he doesn't get fast BoTs" and then refusing to acknowledge that they give him an amazing/safe gold farming ability for this exact reason. Not knowing how to properly play the game is gonna make every hero fall off early.

[Hermanni]

Point remains, unranked Pubs aren't the best place to call such things, because they're unranked and hardly anybody cares about what happens there.

This might only apply to playing in stacks but due to the compendium and prediction stuff unranked pubs feel way more tryhard than ranked ones. My friends and I normally never play ranked (partially because we'd range from like sub 4k to 5,5k+ mmr) but after some trying we noticed the enemies there tend to be less tryhard and actually random more than some stacks do in unranked.

However the sad truth is that no matter how well you argue your case or how much showcase you have majority of the dota community will never accept something new as "viable" until it's done in a pro game or by a 6k MMR streamer... at which point they get all the credit.

[Drunkenvalley]

Why do people think WR is a good offlane? She's been a terrible, easily bullied offlane for years. They made offlane retard-proof to the point that virtually any hero can do it (seriously, people do fucking offlane Pudge and succeed), but that doesn't make WR any better at it. She's still super easy to bully and doesn't have much potential to kill the enemy safelaner when the supports rotate elsewhere.

Why do you think WR isn't a good offlane? She's got decent base-damage, a decent escape, a scary stun, a good nuke and an ultimate that lets you turn on the enemy laner and down them fast.

What more do you actually want from offlane? Invulnerability?

[Lysah]

Her escape sucks, she won't beat half the supports in a 1v1 harass contest, and anyone who can stun her during her E turns her into first blood (i.e. most supports). She's actually not hard to zone out entirely, although she can powershot for SOME gold, doing so pushes the wave to your tower which is just good for you in the long run anyway. Good offlanes are heroes who tend to be able to beat supports when they try to zone. Undying, Bat, Tree, Slark.