Unholy Frenzy on Pet?

[Brauhm]

I've heard somewhere that using Unholy Frenzy on your pet is what you're supposed to do. Apparently he not only never runs out of energy with the buff, but also melee's like crazy. I had a DK in a raid with me today that had his pet do like 2 million damage, it literally did as much as he did and he pulled almost 43k. I can't link a picture right now (I only have recount and it only logs the last five fights, can I change that?) but I do have the one for our Heroic Hagara attempts.



http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...olution/simple

That is his armory, he's in his tank gear right now though. I'll update next week with his Ultraxion damage. I figure this is really high for using a buff on his pet that he should be using on himself.

[Deleted]

That was a viable thing to do in 4.2, but with haste being somewhere around 2200 for a decently geared unholy dk. Then your pet is basicly haste capped. Not sure if this is correct, i am usualy only involed in blood.

[Deleted]

Bump for interest on clarification.

[Vereesa]

You should never use Unholy Frenzy on your pet (except MAYBE on Chimaeron), because it will grant exactly the same benefit to him from casting it on yourself as it would from casting it on him. Obviously while the extra haste may not always fully benefit the DK, you'll still get faster melee attacks yourself.

[Brauhm]

You should never use Unholy Frenzy on your pet (except MAYBE on Chimaeron), because it will grant exactly the same benefit to him from casting it on yourself as it would from casting it on him. Obviously while the extra haste may not always fully benefit the DK, you'll still get faster melee attacks yourself.

From what I've seen this isn't true. The Unholy Frenzy works like Bloodlust, if you get bloodlust and then summon your pet, he will not have your increased haste effect, if your pet is out /during/ lust, he will be benefited because he gets a version of the buff himself. It's why Boomkins and Shadow Priests need a warning so they can pop their treats/shadow fiend respectively.

[Samsarathedk]

From what I've seen this isn't true. The Unholy Frenzy works like Bloodlust, if you get bloodlust and then summon your pet, he will not have your increased haste effect, if your pet is out /during/ lust, he will be benefited because he gets a version of the buff himself. It's why Boomkins and Shadow Priests need a warning so they can pop their treats/shadow fiend respectively.

Umm how often does an unholy dk NOT have his pet summoned? Just saying...

[Brauhm]

Umm how often does an unholy dk NOT have his pet summoned? Just saying...

Well no, you misunderstand. Unholy Frenzy is a singular buff, so if you get it your pet can't and vice versa, very much like bloodlust. Bloodlust, as a singular buff, does not transfer to your pet, both pet and master must be on the field and in range to get benefited effects. From what it seems, unholy frenzy works this way and it seems to be better to give it to your pet during his transformation because it allows him to spam his main attack without running out of energy. I would love some feedback and confirmation of this since the fact that the person in my raid is using it on his pet and pulling extremely high numbers, I feel like if casting it on your pet was wrong then he should be pulling very low numbers considering unholy frenzy is a very powerful ability.

[Samsarathedk]

Well no, you misunderstand. Unholy Frenzy is a singular buff, so if you get it your pet can't and vice versa, very much like bloodlust. Bloodlust, as a singular buff, does not transfer to your pet, both pet and master must be on the field and in range to get benefited effects. From what it seems, unholy frenzy works this way and it seems to be better to give it to your pet during his transformation because it allows him to spam his main attack without running out of energy. I would love some feedback and confirmation of this since the fact that the person in my raid is using it on his pet and pulling extremely high numbers, I feel like if casting it on your pet was wrong then he should be pulling very low numbers considering unholy frenzy is a very powerful ability.

No I understand how unholy frenzy works but thanks for deducing so much from the small statement I made. All I said is that an unholy dk will have their pet summoned more times than not, therefore your comment about a dk needing his ghoul out before he uses unholy frenzy is kinda moot.

[Iysdexia]

No reason to cast it on your pet when he benefits from the haste if you cast it on yourself.

[Brauhm]

No I understand how unholy frenzy works but thanks for deducing so much from the small statement I made. All I said is that an unholy dk will have their pet summoned more times than not, therefore your comment about a dk needing his ghoul out before he uses unholy frenzy is kinda moot.

Well that's not true at all. If his stats update dynamically like they should you can use unholy frenzy on yourself and then summon your pet and he should still get it, blood lust doesn't work that way, your pet needs his own buff. Also, can someone confirm that he gains the haste from unholy frenzy. You all are saying that it happens but I'd like some solid proof, maybe a test dummy? I'm not 85 so I can't say for sure, I just wanna make sure our unholy DK is doing things correctly and if he is then I'd like to inform you all and if he's not I'd like to inform him. No need to be snarky.

[Samsarathedk]

Well that's not true at all. If his stats update dynamically like they should you can use unholy frenzy on yourself and then summon your pet and he should still get it, blood lust doesn't work that way, your pet needs his own buff. Also, can someone confirm that he gains the haste from unholy frenzy. You all are saying that it happens but I'd like some solid proof, maybe a test dummy? I'm not 85 so I can't say for sure, I just wanna make sure our unholy DK is doing things correctly and if he is then I'd like to inform you all and if he's not I'd like to inform him. No need to be snarky.

Are you even reading what I'm typing? Unholy dks are melee hunters, the majority of their damage comes from Timmy and therefore they will always have him summoned therefore there will not be a sudden "Oh shit, summon my ghoul for a buff" moment.

Now to answer your questions about unholy frenzy, the following has been taken from elitist jerks:

Unholy Frenzy

A 20% melee/range haste buff with a 30 second duration and a 3 minute cooldown is rather impressive - in fact, it would be an 18% or so dps boost for us during its course. Quite good. Unfortunately, the buff is classified as an enrage, and because of that fact it's an even greater damage gain for Fury Warriors, whose mastery amplifies the effect of enrages. They would get at least 25% more out of the buff than we would. When using it on others, try to time it with Heroism or various self-buffs they have such as Death Wish.

If a Fury Warrior isn't present in the raid, then yes, it's best to simply use it on yourself. It's cooldown lines up perfectly with that of Summon Gargoyle, so the two should generally be macroed together or, at the least, used consecutively.

And now for your question about whether you should cast it on your self or your pet, again taken straight from elitist jerks: \

With your Ghoul being one of your highest sources of damage, and the primary tool which sets an Unholy DK apart from other DKs, there are some basic numbers to know about it.

Due to lackluster AI, even with Claw on auto-cast, you Ghoul won't use it as often as it can. To maximize its dps, it's best to macro Claw into your Scourge Strike ability.
Ghouls work like most permanent pets, receiving a portion of your stats and benefitting from any buffs on you – although they, themselves, cannot be individually buffed so as to prevent double dipping.
Ghouls receive 100% of your strength, stamina, haste rating, and hit rating. Glyph of Raise Dead causes your ghoul to receive 140% of your strength and stamina.
Ghouls gain expertise based on your hit rating. If you are half-way to the hit cap, then your pet will be half-way to the expertise cap. The Draenei hit aura does not give expertise to the pet.
Ghouls benefit from the 15% haste of Unholy Presence and the 10% damage of Frost presence.
Ghouls have a 90% passive AoE damage reduction buff which does not show up in the spellbook.

Therefore, your pet gets the unholy frenzy haste buff when you cast it on your self. Thank you and have a good day.

[Brauhm]

Are you even reading what I'm typing? Unholy dks are melee hunters, the majority of their damage comes from Timmy and therefore they will always have him summoned therefore there will not be a sudden "Oh shit, summon my ghoul for a buff" moment.

Now to answer your questions about unholy frenzy, the following has been taken from elitist jerks:

Unholy Frenzy

A 20% melee/range haste buff with a 30 second duration and a 3 minute cooldown is rather impressive - in fact, it would be an 18% or so dps boost for us during its course. Quite good. Unfortunately, the buff is classified as an enrage, and because of that fact it's an even greater damage gain for Fury Warriors, whose mastery amplifies the effect of enrages. They would get at least 25% more out of the buff than we would. When using it on others, try to time it with Heroism or various self-buffs they have such as Death Wish.

If a Fury Warrior isn't present in the raid, then yes, it's best to simply use it on yourself. It's cooldown lines up perfectly with that of Summon Gargoyle, so the two should generally be macroed together or, at the least, used consecutively.

And now for your question about whether you should cast it on your self or your pet, again taken straight from elitist jerks: \

With your Ghoul being one of your highest sources of damage, and the primary tool which sets an Unholy DK apart from other DKs, there are some basic numbers to know about it.

Due to lackluster AI, even with Claw on auto-cast, you Ghoul won't use it as often as it can. To maximize its dps, it's best to macro Claw into your Scourge Strike ability.
Ghouls work like most permanent pets, receiving a portion of your stats and benefitting from any buffs on you – although they, themselves, cannot be individually buffed so as to prevent double dipping.
Ghouls receive 100% of your strength, stamina, haste rating, and hit rating. Glyph of Raise Dead causes your ghoul to receive 140% of your strength and stamina.
Ghouls gain expertise based on your hit rating. If you are half-way to the hit cap, then your pet will be half-way to the expertise cap. The Draenei hit aura does not give expertise to the pet.
Ghouls benefit from the 15% haste of Unholy Presence and the 10% damage of Frost presence.
Ghouls have a 90% passive AoE damage reduction buff which does not show up in the spellbook.

Therefore, your pet gets the unholy frenzy haste buff when you cast it on your self. Thank you and have a good day.

Please note that you bolded "haste rating" unholy frenzy does not give haste rating, it gives haste, those are two different things. For example my Doomguard gains my haste rating, but not my buffed haste, such as the 5% spell (10% melee) haste or bloodlust (or unholy frenzy if someone happens to give it to me).

In addition (like on Heroic Hagara when your pet takes lighting stacks in 10 man) your pet can die more than once and be on cooldown, thus you could use unholy frenzy on yourself and not have a pet out. Unlike hunters your pet summon has a two minute cooldown.

So I'll ask again, can someone show me somewhere with legit data (not just something someone says) that shows your pet benefiting form the haste % (not rating because its not rating) from unholy frenzy while its casted on yourself. A parse even, would satisfy my curiosity because right now you've given me nothing but hearsay.

---------- Post added 2012-05-25 at 04:35 AM ----------

Update:
No Unholy Frenzy - One Icy Touch Duration

Unholy Frenzy on Myself - One Icy Touch Duration

Unholy Frenzy on Pet - One Icy Touch Duration


I'm sorry but this is definitive proof, casting Unholy Frenzy on yourself does NOT transfer to your pet. Thank you all for helping! Now to figure out of its better to use on your pet during his transformation but that will take a lot more theory crafting than an Icy Touch at a test dummy. I'm starting to think that you unholy DK's don't know your spells/spec as well as you think you do and that this could well change how you all play depending on if its really better to toss the buff to your pet. I need some people to start logging events for single target fights like Morchok or Ultraxion where half can give the buff to themselves and the other half to their pets and see who comes out with which damage where.

[Deleted]

Your ghoul's attack speed is not improved when you use Unholy Frenzy on yourself. It is increased when you use it on the ghoul. Not sure how it works with his energy regen or if it affects it at all, but it does reduce Gargoyle cast time when used on yourself.

[Brauhm]

Your ghoul's attack speed is not improved when you use Unholy Frenzy on yourself. It is increased when you use it on the ghoul. Not sure how it works with his energy regen or if it affects it at all, but it does reduce Gargoyle cast time when used on yourself.

You become gargoyle GCD capped at 1600 personal haste rating so there is really no need to ever cast it on yourself at that point. Your ghoul gains almost 20% increased damage and you gain a slight buff to your melee swings and increased rune regeneration. I feel like the pet damage outweighs the rune regeneration and the increased melee swing speed.

[Shadowygoodness]

Are you even reading what I'm typing? Unholy dks are melee hunters, the majority of their damage comes from Timmy and therefore they will always have him summoned therefore there will not be a sudden "Oh shit, summon my ghoul for a buff" moment.

Now to answer your questions about unholy frenzy, the following has been taken from elitist jerks:

Unholy Frenzy

A 20% melee/range haste buff with a 30 second duration and a 3 minute cooldown is rather impressive - in fact, it would be an 18% or so dps boost for us during its course. Quite good. Unfortunately, the buff is classified as an enrage, and because of that fact it's an even greater damage gain for Fury Warriors, whose mastery amplifies the effect of enrages. They would get at least 25% more out of the buff than we would. When using it on others, try to time it with Heroism or various self-buffs they have such as Death Wish.

If a Fury Warrior isn't present in the raid, then yes, it's best to simply use it on yourself. It's cooldown lines up perfectly with that of Summon Gargoyle, so the two should generally be macroed together or, at the least, used consecutively.

And now for your question about whether you should cast it on your self or your pet, again taken straight from elitist jerks: \

With your Ghoul being one of your highest sources of damage, and the primary tool which sets an Unholy DK apart from other DKs, there are some basic numbers to know about it.

Due to lackluster AI, even with Claw on auto-cast, you Ghoul won't use it as often as it can. To maximize its dps, it's best to macro Claw into your Scourge Strike ability.
Ghouls work like most permanent pets, receiving a portion of your stats and benefitting from any buffs on you – although they, themselves, cannot be individually buffed so as to prevent double dipping.
Ghouls receive 100% of your strength, stamina, haste rating, and hit rating. Glyph of Raise Dead causes your ghoul to receive 140% of your strength and stamina.
Ghouls gain expertise based on your hit rating. If you are half-way to the hit cap, then your pet will be half-way to the expertise cap. The Draenei hit aura does not give expertise to the pet.
Ghouls benefit from the 15% haste of Unholy Presence and the 10% damage of Frost presence.
Ghouls have a 90% passive AoE damage reduction buff which does not show up in the spellbook.

Therefore, your pet gets the unholy frenzy haste buff when you cast it on your self. Thank you and have a good day.

Casting Unholy Frenzy on yourself is not going to magically apply itself to the pet as well. The only way for it to do so would be if you summoned your pet WHILE you had Unholy Frenzy in theory, BUT in actuality because Unholy Frenzy is a PERCENTAGE buff it does not apply its gains to the pet at the time of summoning. Reference: shadow fiend, treants, doomguard, etc.

[Curanhadin]

Are you even reading what I'm typing? Unholy dks are melee hunters, the majority of their damage comes from Timmy and therefore they will always have him summoned therefore there will not be a sudden "Oh shit, summon my ghoul for a buff" moment.

Now to answer your questions about unholy frenzy, the following has been taken from elitist jerks:

Unholy Frenzy

A 20% melee/range haste buff with a 30 second duration and a 3 minute cooldown is rather impressive - in fact, it would be an 18% or so dps boost for us during its course. Quite good. Unfortunately, the buff is classified as an enrage, and because of that fact it's an even greater damage gain for Fury Warriors, whose mastery amplifies the effect of enrages. They would get at least 25% more out of the buff than we would. When using it on others, try to time it with Heroism or various self-buffs they have such as Death Wish.

If a Fury Warrior isn't present in the raid, then yes, it's best to simply use it on yourself. It's cooldown lines up perfectly with that of Summon Gargoyle, so the two should generally be macroed together or, at the least, used consecutively.

Ive seen a blue post somewhere that they will probably not have it count as an enrage anymore so no reason to give to the fury warrior which i never do anyways i only self cast it.

[Brauhm]

Ive seen a blue post somewhere that they will probably not have it count as an enrage anymore so no reason to give to the fury warrior which i never do anyways i only self cast it.

Well depending on how this goes you may be casting it on your pet during Dark Transformation. The Haste may be more valuable to him than you.

[Wih]

Ive seen a blue post somewhere that they will probably not have it count as an enrage anymore so no reason to give to the fury warrior which i never do anyways i only self cast it.

This is happening in Mists, and this thread is discussing live.

[Vereesa]

Even given all this, Unholy Frenzy would still benefit the DK more outside of Bloodlust simply due to the fact that you don't cap your resources with just Unholy Frenzy. During Bloodlust, however, it could even be possible that Unholy Frenzy would benefit the Ghoul more.

Edit:

I can't link a picture right now (I only have recount and it only logs the last five fights, can I change that?

You can change that. Go to your Interface options -> Addons and go to Recount's configuration and change the number of recorded fights to 25.

[bals]

Guess what? All that you just posted just means your pet's stats are relative to your stats AT THE TIME OF SUMMONING. NO pet in this game receives a buff any time its master receives a buff. Have you seen your trinket procs buffing your pet? I don't think so

trinket procs will update the stats of your permanent pets.
they don't get the proc themself but the change to your stats will be reflected on them