Concerns about PvP Power and PvP Defense system with MoP

[Stanton Biston]

Stamina and armor only. And the effect of that stamina and armor bonus you are talking about, is negligible and can be easily solved by making PvP power slightly more powerful.

Which is what I just said. Except the part about Stamina and Armor. And the differences in stamina and armor should not be taken lightly- Just ask any Warrior.

Intelligence/Spellpower for every healer and I think Warlocks (not sure how their armors and the VW shield interact with sp atm) and to a lesser extent Mages (mana shield) contributes to defense.
Strength increases parry (more than it used to) for strength DPS classes.
Agility substantially increases dodge for Agility DPS classes.

Like I said, increasing the PvP power to the point where it mitigates all of the passive defense bonuses unaccounted for creates a situation where the PvP players are fragile and bursty compared to the PvE players because they lack the inherent defenses of the higher item level gear and make up for it in sheer power. Not unlike an inverse of today.

Having a demonstrated lack of understanding of the systems in question erodes credibility.

And no, those extra attributes will not mitigate more of the PvP player's defenses, because those calculated 15% are the _final_ damage after all modificators to damage/mitigation. Secondary attributes are all a means of damage and thus part of the 15%. In fact that's those 15% only purpose: to simulate higher itemlevel of the pve player.

I was specifically talking about expertise and hit.

So what you are now saying is that the differences are all encompassing. That's not what your calculations are based on. Your calculations are based on two single damage sources. You would need something far more advanced to show how much of an increase in damage power would affect average damage, taking into consideration avoidance and mitigation. And given the sloppiness and poor objectivity of your original calculations, I'm afraid that math might be beyond your level of understanding.

Which is fine. Not everyone needs an in depth understanding of higher order algebra. But your math doesn't show the percentage bonus to damage necessary to raise average damage by a given percentile.

That has always been one of the major drawbacks of WoW and will never change, because of tiered raid content. I agree with you, that WoW's gearing system in general is stupid. Someone who played every week since patch day will have an advantage in Valor/Conquest, that cannot be compensated for.
It was supposed to pace down progression, but it makes it impossible for new players/alts to catch up with everyone else.

If you read the posting by Blizzard, you'd understand their reasons behind the gearing paradigm they have selected.

[Arazen]

Which is what I just said. Except the part about Stamina and Armor. And the differences in stamina and armor should not be taken lightly- Just ask any Warrior.

Intelligence/Spellpower for every healer and I think Warlocks (not sure how their armors and the VW shield interact with sp atm) and to a lesser extent Mages (mana shield) contributes to defense.
Strength increases parry (more than it used to) for strength DPS classes.
Agility substantially increases dodge for Agility DPS classes.

Like I said, increasing the PvP power to the point where it mitigates all of the passive defense bonuses unaccounted for creates a situation where the PvP players are fragile and bursty compared to the PvE players because they lack the inherent defenses of the higher item level gear and make up for it in sheer power. Not unlike an inverse of today.

Having a demonstrated lack of understanding of the systems in question erodes credibility.

I was specifically talking about expertise and hit.

So what you are now saying is that the differences are all encompassing. That's not what your calculations are based on. Your calculations are based on two single damage sources. You would need something far more advanced to show how much of an increase in damage power would affect average damage, taking into consideration avoidance and mitigation. And given the sloppiness and poor objectivity of your original calculations, I'm afraid that math might be beyond your level of understanding.

Which is fine. Not everyone needs an in depth understanding of higher order algebra. But your math doesn't show the percentage bonus to damage necessary to raise average damage by a given percentile.
If you read the posting by Blizzard, you'd understand their reasons behind the gearing paradigm they have selected.

Since you lack both understanding and especially manners, I'm going to ignore you here. You sir, are the most arrogant jerk, I've ever met on the internet. You insult with absolutely every sentence you make and destroy any worthwhile discussion, by nitpicking on details, that don't matter as much as you think they do.

Thanks for destroying my thread with your constant negative attitude.

[Stanton Biston]

Since you lack both understanding and especially manners, I'm going to ignore you here. You sir, are the most arrogant jerk, I've ever met on the internet. You insult with absolutely every sentence you make and destroy any worthwhile discussion, by nitpicking on details, that don't matter as much as you think they do.

Thanks for destroying my thread with your constant negative attitude.

Nitpicking on details? Well, yeah. Kinda the point when people try to assert something that isn't true. And I don't think any objective, third party observer would question my understanding of the game, basic mathematics, logic or deductive reasoning. But if you can't mount a rigorous defense of your claims, this will always happen.

You chose to defend bad numbers, not me. I told you they were bad and you got offended. Hopefully you have no plans for any post graduate work because based on your behavior here, you'd pretty much be offended all the time.

This isn't anything personal though. When people come onto the forums with their, "Look at this! I know better than Blizzard!"-attitudes, because it's obnoxious. Not because I'm some "Blizzard Fan Boy", because I've shown I'm not. But because it gets old to see all these kids thinking game balance and game design is easy.

TL;DR: Don't be wrong and you won't have to pull a Cartman.