Formula 1 2012

[Deleted]

Yeah i was watching it with my girlfriend and we both watched the stop and said "What the fuck" in unison. Was ludicrously fast.

[Coffer]

Yeah i was watching it with my girlfriend and we both watched the stop and said "What the fuck" in unison. Was ludicrously fast.

It's a new record, actually.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I think the official timing was 2.31 seconds.

[Coffer]

My F1R ratings, as usual.

Sebastian Vettel
Q: 9 | R: 6 | Average: 7.5->8 | F1R: 7
Hamilton made a mockery of him, and it showed - not only was he fuming about it (which was hilarious), but he started to make a lot of mistakes after that. Went wide very often.

Mark Webber
Q: 8 | R: 2 | Average: 5 | F1R: 4
Was absolutely nowhere. The fact that he couldn't outpace Vettel even after the latter became frustrated says it all.

Jenson Button
Q: 8 | R: 10 | Average: 9 | F1R: 10
Sheer brilliance. Also outqualified Hamilton in the rain, which is very surprising.

Lewis Hamilton
Q: 7 | R: 7 | Average: 7 | F1R: 7
Extremely unfortunate. Had decent pace and made Vettel his...lady. Deserved more.

Fernando Alonso
Q: 10 | R: 9.5 | Average: 9.75->10 | F1R: 10
Outqualified Vettel by 4 tenths of a second and knew when to push during the race. There's nothing else to say. Driver of the Weekend

Felipe Massa
Q: 4 | R: 6 | Average: 5 | F1R: 5
That collision with Ricciardo was unneeded, but he was matching Hamilton despite the weak soft tyres (Hamilton ran on them in his last stint while Massa ran on them in his second one), which gives me some hope.

Michael Schumacher
Q: 9 | R: 8 | Average: 8.5->9 | F1R: 9
Once again, the Merc was murderously weak on race day, but he was involved in some great fights.

Nico Rosberg
Q: 4 | R: 6 | Average: 5 | F1R: 5
Was slower than Schumacher all throughout, but did well to finish in the points considering the circumstances.

Kimi Raikkonen
Q: 8 | R: 10 | Average: 9 | F1R: 10
Would've fought for the win were it not for the poor strategy. A class act all throughout. That fight with Di Resta was breathtakingly beautiful. No DRS, and he showed great respect towards Paul (and vice-versa. Maldonado ought to learn from these two.)

Romain Grosjean
Q: 5 | R: 3 | Average: 4 | F1R: 4
The fun ends here, Romain.

Paul di Resta
Q: 7 | R: 7 | Average: 7 | F1R: 7
Beaten by the Hulk on merit.

Nico Hulkenberg
Q: 9 | R: 8 | Average: 8.5->9 | F1R: 8
Excelled in qualifying, but the car was just too poor on race day.

Kamui Kobayashi
Q: 7 | R: 8.5 | Average: 7.75->8 | F1R: 8
Great weekend for him.

Sergio Perez
Q: 6 | R: 9 | Average: 7.5->8 | F1R: 8
Had to fight his way through, and only finished 6 seconds behind his teammate. Had a quick scrap with him as well.

Daniel Ricciardo
Q: 8 | R: 6 | Average: 7 | F1R: 7
His final stop came way too early, and he was really dropping back at the end. Only finished .136s in front of his teammate.

Jean-Eric Vergne
Q: 6 | R: 7 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 7
Caught his teammate. Not much else to say.

Pastor Maldonado
Q: 8.5 | R: 6 | Average: 7.25->7 | F1R: 6
Suffered car damage early on. The fact that he still destroyed Senna is...quite telling, to say the least.

Bruno Senna
Q: 5 | R: 2 | Average: 3.5->4 | F1R: 3
Go home, Bruno Senna. Worst Driver

Heikki Kovalainen
Q: 8 | R: 5 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 6
Beaten by Petrov. That must hurt.

Vitaly Petrov
Q: 6.5 | R: 7.5 | Average: 7 | F1R: 7
Was destroyed in qualifying, but turned it around in the race. Beat Senna, too. There is still hope for the little Russian.

Pedro de la Rosa
Q: 7 | R: 8.5 | Average: 7.75->8 | F1R: 8
He beat Glock! That's...great, to say the least.

Narain Karthikeyan
Q: 6 | R: 6 | Average: 6 | F1R: 6
...how far behind Glock was he? He still finished on the same lap as the German and Pedro, after all.

Timo Glock
Q: 6 | R: 4 | Average: 5 | F1R: 5
Woah, beaten by Pedro and Charles? Something's not right.

Charles Pic
Q: 7 | R: 7 | Average: 7 | F1R: 7
Outclassed his teammate. Impressive.

[Deleted]

Kimi Räikkönen will champion

[Deleted]

Kimi Räikkönen will champion

Not with the strategy guys Lotus have at the moment.

[Rivenda]

Right so there was tree good things in the last race with eyes from a McLaren fan.

Jenson is perhaps back where he should be.
With Lewis overtaking Vettel McLaren have showed imo that they have the fastest race car.
The pitstops are going in the right direction.

What bothers me most is that I think that if it wasn't because of the Massa crash and destryoing Lewis' tire, I think that he would have been in the top 2.
Clearly you could hear that he didn't feel like raceing, but it must have given him more blood on the tooth for next weeks race knowing that the car he has CAN overtake both Alonso and Vettel.

On the bright side Vettel did get a 5th place insted of 2th, and this is totally legit. You gotta consider the road outside the whiteline as dirt, and if he had tried to overtake Jenson in the dirt he wouldn't have managede to pull it off.

That pitstop? Holy freaking fuck... seems like their practic at pitstops have finally paided off. I serious hope they can keep those speeds up next week. Is it just me or did/those it look like Jenson actually stopped a few inches to late? If that was the key behind, than fast stop please stop to late!

Edit: Almost forgot one of the more importen things, seems like Red Bull did break or exploited the rules, otherwise they woudn't need to redo the rule set.. I don't get why they didn't punish them for it since if they have to redo a rule set or add something extra someone has done something which wasn't meant to be done. Hopefully that will result in a weaker RedBull racer next week.
Oh and Lewis can get a new gearbox hurra.

[Sackman]

Anyone have a video of the WR pitstop? I can't find one, I see there was a video above but it says removed for copyright infringement.

I don't remember seeing it in the BBC coverage.

Glad vettel got penalised for overtaking Button it was quite a blatent foul move, and Vettel really shouldn't have been talking about Hamilton's pass, he was faster, completely legal.

[Coffer]

As a side note, I am reasonably new to this thread and there seems to be quite alot of hate for Red Bull and quite alot of love for the McLarens.

The majority of the F1 fanbase in a nutshell. It's not just here. It's everywhere.

I, myself, am a tifosi and utterly despise McLaren (mostly due to Ron Dennis and the events of 2007), but I still love Hamilton for some odd reason. I'm not even a fan of aggressive driving (I hate A.Senna, whilst Prost is one of my all-time favorites), which makes it even more odd.

I'm mostly cheering for Massa, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton and Raikkonen in that order, whilst rooting against Webber, Grosjean, Rosberg, Alonso and Button (although I like the latter two to an extent.)

Glad vettel got penalised for overtaking Button it was quite a blatent foul move, and Vettel really shouldn't have been talking about Hamilton's pass, he was faster, completely legal.

Right you are. Hamilton was genuinely faster and he was also putting Alonso under pressure. Vettel has no reason to whine.

[Bigbazz]

Alonso is driving too consistantly well this year while others are up and down in comparison. Given that the Ferrari is also now fast in both wet and dry, and the fact that he has a considerable points advantage... I personally think Alonso will win the championship.

Personally though I am hoping that Mark Webber can pull it back, I'd love to see him win.

[Coffer]

Note: the comments below are merely my views, and are obviously not meant to be taken as facts. If I sound too confident it's probably because I'm very tired and can't be bothered to re-read or change the words I used.

Alonso is driving too consistantly well this year while others are up and down in comparison. Given that the Ferrari is also now fast in both wet and dry, and the fact that he has a considerable points advantage... I personally think Alonso will win the championship.

I can't really see Alonso losing this. He's too consistent (and hasn't really had any problems with the car), Vettel's making mistakes again and gets frustrated very easily (we saw this in the last race, with him going wide a LOT and just not being confident in himself after Hamilton put him in his place), while Webber is annoyingly inconsistent - he can go from beating Alonso in a matching (or even worse) car to being much slower than his own teammate even in "optimal" conditions (AKA Vettel being frustrated, like in the last race.)

Hamilton could pose a threat if McLaren resurface as championship contenders, but I don't see Button beating the Red Bulls. Massa's shown some potential, but he lost way too many points prior to Monaco. And if Lotus don't do something soon, Räikkönen will drop off as well.

Personally though I am hoping that Mark Webber can pull it back, I'd love to see him win.

Which reminds me - I must be the only person on the planet that doesn't want him to win. Or, worse yet, that hates him.

When I started watching again in 2011 I was initially supporting both Vettel and Webber. Vettel because, on-track, he reminded me of Häkkinen (and he seemed very nice off the track and was a big fan of British humor), and Webber because, at the time, I still hated Alonso (I hadn't watched 2005 or 2006 but hearing that Schumacher didn't win those made me slightly upset, and I hated him in 2003 and 2004), I didn't know much about Hamilton and Button just seemed like he shouldn't be there, so I really had no idea who to support other than Schumacher and the underperforming Massa (whom I'd already started liking prior to my initial "departure" from the sport in mid-late 2004.)

Things sure have changed since then. His incident with Pizzonia, the "Britney's in the wall" bit and his general inconsiderate behavior towards others (especially other drivers - I remember him mocking Petrov for saying that Mugello is too unsafe for racing) made me dislike him, but his attitude in 2010 was the last straw. While Horner and Helmut Marko's constant defense of Vettel annoyed me quite a bit, they didn't really hold a candle to Webber's "Not bad for a #2 driver" thing. I can't recall him, or even Vettel, being miffed when the team told the German "save your car, save your car, Mark is faster." Double standards are not my thing.

I also feel that people vastly overrate his 2010 performance. He was below Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso, and were it not for the German's car failures (and Turkey 2010, where Vettel's incompetence cost him 25 points and also cost his teammate 3 points), the championship wouldn't have been nearly as close.

Doesn't really help that I've never really rooted for an underdog. And no, not even Massa counts - I missed 2006-2009, and I never hesitate to lambast him for his weak performances despite him being my favorite driver of all time. Usually, underdogs are there for a purpose, and I feel that winners like Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso deserve far more respect, because they've actually proven their worth.

[Demoncrash]

Anyone have a video of the WR pitstop?

(O.o)

[Bigbazz]

Note: the comments below are merely my views, and are obviously not meant to be taken as facts. If I sound too confident it's probably because I'm very tired and can't be bothered to re-read or change the words I used.



I can't really see Alonso losing this. He's too consistent (and hasn't really had any problems with the car), Vettel's making mistakes again and gets frustrated very easily (we saw this in the last race, with him going wide a LOT and just not being confident in himself after Hamilton put him in his place), while Webber is annoyingly inconsistent - he can go from beating Alonso in a matching (or even worse) car to being much slower than his own teammate even in "optimal" conditions (AKA Vettel being frustrated, like in the last race.)

Hamilton could pose a threat if McLaren resurface as championship contenders, but I don't see Button beating the Red Bulls. Massa's shown some potential, but he lost way too many points prior to Monaco. And if Lotus don't do something soon, Räikkönen will drop off as well.



Which reminds me - I must be the only person on the planet that doesn't want him to win. Or, worse yet, that hates him.

When I started watching again in 2011 I was initially supporting both Vettel and Webber. Vettel because, on-track, he reminded me of Häkkinen (and he seemed very nice off the track and was a big fan of British humor), and Webber because, at the time, I still hated Alonso (I hadn't watched 2005 or 2006 but hearing that Schumacher didn't win those made me slightly upset, and I hated him in 2003 and 2004), I didn't know much about Hamilton and Button just seemed like he shouldn't be there, so I really had no idea who to support other than Schumacher and the underperforming Massa (whom I'd already started liking prior to my initial "departure" from the sport in mid-late 2004.)

Things sure have changed since then. His incident with Pizzonia, the "Britney's in the wall" bit and his general inconsiderate behavior towards others (especially other drivers - I remember him mocking Petrov for saying that Mugello is too unsafe for racing) made me dislike him, but his attitude in 2010 was the last straw. While Horner and Helmut Marko's constant defense of Vettel annoyed me quite a bit, they didn't really hold a candle to Webber's "Not bad for a #2 driver" thing. I can't recall him, or even Vettel, being miffed when the team told the German "save your car, save your car, Mark is faster." Double standards are not my thing.

I also feel that people vastly overrate his 2010 performance. He was below Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso, and were it not for the German's car failures (and Turkey 2010, where Vettel's incompetence cost him 25 points and also cost his teammate 3 points), the championship wouldn't have been nearly as close.

Doesn't really help that I've never really rooted for an underdog. And no, not even Massa counts - I missed 2006-2009, and I never hesitate to lambast him for his weak performances despite him being my favorite driver of all time. Usually, underdogs are there for a purpose, and I feel that winners like Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso deserve far more respect, because they've actually proven their worth.

The "Not bad for a No2 driver" was justified though. Vettel damaged his front wing in practice or qualifying (one of the two) and they took Marks front wing off his car and gave it to Vettel, leaving mark with an old spec wing. Following that and despite this, Mark went on to win the race. Can you imagine how he must have felt being treated like that? A lot of people gave Red Bull a lot of stick because of it.

Some would argue it was things like this that lost Mark the 2010 championship, as he was the favourite to win for much of the season, whilst Vettel was making mistakes often. The fact that neither Webber or Alonso did not win the championship was really quite unusual, they both messed up in the pressure of the final moments.

I think to really appreciate Mark you have to go back further, see his rise through the slower cars and his first win in Germany 2009 with Red Bull. He is someone who has fought hard to get where he is, Vettel on the other hand was extremely lucky in being in the right place at the right time, joining the Red Bull team in the first year where it was truly competitive and capable of winning the world championship. Prior to 2009 the Red Bull showed only signs of speed at times, but in the grand scheme of things they were nothing more than a struggling mid-field team.

Button on the other hand, he is hot and cold.. When the conditions are right he is unbeatable, some of his drives have been absolutely amazing and Canada 2011 was one of the greatest F1 races i've ever seen. Button has always had the confidence of his team, I remember back when BAR/Honda were desperate to keep him so that he wouldn't move to Williams because they were absolutely certain that if they could build a car, Button would win the championship, and in 2009 that is exactly what happened. Button spent many years driving in useless cars while he waited patiently working with his team, he definitely earned his spot. In 2011 Button was brilliant, he scored more points than Vettel did in 2010, it just happened to be the issue that Vettel was on another level in 2011 and so was his car in terms of both speed and reliability.

[Coffer]

BBC: Formula 1's greatest drivers: #10 - Fernando Alonso.

Did they just put Alonso below Vettel? This pleases me greatly.

The "Not bad for a No2 driver" was justified though. Vettel damaged his front wing in practice or qualifying (one of the two) and they took Marks front wing off his car and gave it to Vettel, leaving mark with an old spec wing. Following that and despite this, Mark went on to win the race. Can you imagine how he must have felt being treated like that? A lot of people gave Red Bull a lot of stick because of it.

Vettel got a puncture at the start of the race. It is unclear whether he would've beaten Webber had that not happened.

And no, while I heavily dislike Red Bull as a team (and especially Horner and Helmut Marko), I don't think Webber's reaction was justified. Had Turkey 2009 not happened...yeah, maybe.

Some would argue it was things like this that lost Mark the 2010 championship, as he was the favourite to win for much of the season, whilst Vettel was making mistakes often. The fact that neither Webber or Alonso did not win the championship was really quite unusual, they both messed up in the pressure of the final moments.

What really lost Mark the championship was his off-track injury and his lack of confidence in the final races. Barring that, as shown in the link, Vettel was a more worthy championship contender, having lost over 60 points through no mistake of his own (aka without even counting Turkey 2010), whilst Webber lost way less.

I think to really appreciate Mark you have to go back further, see his rise through the slower cars and his first win in Germany 2009 with Red Bull. He is someone who has fought hard to get where he is, Vettel on the other hand was extremely lucky in being in the right place at the right time, joining the Red Bull team in the first year where it was truly competitive and capable of winning the world championship. Prior to 2009 the Red Bull showed only signs of speed at times, but in the grand scheme of things they were nothing more than a struggling mid-field team.

I would say that Vettel did a better job even in that aspect. He took a Toro Rosso to the top step and outscored Bourdais 35-4 in 2008. While I do consider his win to be a fluke, it's nowhere near as big of a fluke as Mark's P5 finish in a Minardi in his first race. And even without Monza 2008 he would've still outscored Webber.

Yes, Mark has shown a good deal of potential in his previous years, hence why I brought up his time with Williams (which is why I see him as a much better driver than, say, Rosberg, and why I believe that Red Bull currently has the strongest top team lineup, even above Button&Hamilton), but even then, Vettel did better. Even in 2007, had Hamilton not taken him (and, ironically, Webber) out, he would've finished on the podium at least once. And he didn't even have enough time to get used to the car - China 2007 was only his 5th race for Toro Rosso and his 6th F1 race.

It's not that I see Webber as a bad driver, not by any stretch of the imagination - I might dislike him, but I can appreciate when someone I dislike is, indeed, strong. It's that I see Vettel as an upcoming legend. It's no surprise that, even with such a short career, his myriad of mistakes and his frustration when things don't go his way, the BBC have already put him (and Alonso, but he's had far more time) in their all-time top ten.

And plus, whenever someone mentions "having to work to actually get to the top", I can't help but think of Hamilton. He certainly didn't need any of that to beat Alonso in 2007 and Kimi in 2008.

Button on the other hand, he is hot and cold.. When the conditions are right he is unbeatable, some of his drives have been absolutely amazing and Canada 2011 was one of the greatest F1 races i've ever seen. Button has always had the confidence of his team, I remember back when BAR/Honda were desperate to keep him so that he wouldn't move to Williams because they were absolutely certain that if they could build a car, Button would win the championship, and in 2009 that is exactly what happened. Button spent many years driving in useless cars while he waited patiently working with his team, he definitely earned his spot. In 2011 Button was brilliant, he scored more points than Vettel did in 2010, it just happened to be the issue that Vettel was on another level in 2011 and so was his car in terms of both speed and reliability.

What I don't understand about Button is how he can struggle so much with the tyres. He's supposed to be one of the more conservative top drivers, and he certainly put that to great effect last year. He was splendid in 2009 as well - even when Brawn started to drop off, he still remained "there" and did his job to the bitter end. The fact that he managed to hold off Vettel in the championship despite the RB5's Brawn-like late domination is something that I highly respect.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

What I don't understand about Button is how he can struggle so much with the tyres. He's supposed to be one of the more conservative top drivers, and he certainly put that to great effect last year. He was splendid in 2009 as well - even when Brawn started to drop off, he still remained "there" and did his job to the bitter end. The fact that he managed to hold off Vettel in the championship despite the RB5's Brawn-like late domination is something that I highly respect.

I think it is not so much a problem of keeping the tyres alive which he is very good at, but more getting them up to temperature. His smooth and flowing driving style is possibly not so good at getting the tyres up to temperature and keeping them there, meaning he has less grip and lower acceleration out of the corners. Less grip means more tyre wear, less acceleration means slower lapping.

[Coffer]

I think Button could be strong in the second half of the year. At the start of the year, the lack of blown diffusers and the 2012 spec Pirelli tyres was a combination that took a number of drivers time to come to grips with. Button seems to have taken longer than most. After Melbourne there was hardly a race where he felt comfortable in the car. However, I think he has finally started to come to grips with the new tyres (no pun intended) though it is far too late for him to challenge from the championship.

It will be an interesting second half of the season. It will be great to get to Spa just to see what sort of upgrades the teams bring with them.

Remember, McLaren aren't even done with their upgrades yet. They have some planned for Hungary as well. And considering Button seems to be much more confident with the car now (he even outqualified Hamilton in the rain!), I wouldn't be surprised if he started doing well again.

Hell, even Massa's regained some of his confidence. I think this season's been all about a "reversal of confidence", in a way. Hamilton, Schumacher and Webber (and possibly even Massa) have shown great potential, whereas Vettel has been struggling.

[Coffer]

Very surprised to see Senna get to Q3. Grosjean's final lap was also stellar. Wouldn't be surprised if he finally won.

[Rivenda]

Waouw where did Alonslo, and Webber go in the Q? Oh boy, that's great. Can't wait to see it on tape once I get home next week. Hopefully Hamilton will nail it. Keep your figners cross for good pit stops from McLaren.

[Coffer]

Waouw where did Alonslo, and Webber go in the Q? Oh boy, that's great. Can't wait to see it on tape once I get home next week. Hopefully Hamilton will nail it. Keep your figners cross for good pit stops from McLaren.

Red Bull had weak pace all weekend, with both Vettel and Webber almost getting knocked out of Q1 (they lucked out as Ricciardo, for some reason, chose not to do a final run, which, considering the track evolution, would've put Vettel in the drop zone. Kovalainen's final lap was also pretty weak by his standards.)

As for Alonso and Massa, I was genuinely surprised to see that they did worse times in Q3 than in Q2.

At the moment, all I'm really hoping for is a wet race.

[Wilian]

Too bad Räikkönen didn't win. That was such amazing race from him :<