Make a 25 guild get 5 people, and make 3 raid groups? =D
Make a 25 guild get 5 people, and make 3 raid groups? =D
Depends on what perspective you're looking at this from. 25s "died" as a source of alt raids and pugs in Cata for the most part and I think that will be the same. Hardcore 25-man (and even to some extent casual 25-man) raiding is still very apparent, however, and is considered by many to be the pinnacle of raiding. I don't think we'll be seeing any of that go away.
Gee, the is another World outside of WoW you know and maybe thse person are just seeing the light or want to try something new..
LFR will become the NEW LRD, there will still be 25/10 mans for the guild that wants to do them. BUt when you got 60-70% of the raiding population running LFR, all that left to do is tweak LFR and let 25/10mans stay... Blizz sure don't want to hurt the guilds that run those and they sure don't want those that didn't raid before but are now raiding with LFR to stop raid..
The problem is the talent pool on medium and low pop realms is just terrible. Outside of the top guild on a mid/low population realm, there is a huge disparity in the level of play. If you have a consistent 10-12 people you can do a 10 man and progress reasonably well. However, you need a consistent 27-35 people to raid 25's.
With 10's being easier (if you don't believe me watch a video of heroic spine on 10 and one on 25) and the rewards being the same, there is no incentive to beat your head against the wall recruiting mostly bad players on a realm that only has about 50 people capable of killing anything but HC Morchok and Ultraxion.
What you are doing would be the same as if I told the entire player base that Halaa PVP is not dead throughout the entire game just because people on one server still do Halaa PVP once a week. 25s thriving on a few servers has nothing to do with 25s being dead or alive. The servers you're referring to where 25man is thriving, those are the exceptions, not the standard.
---------- Post added 2012-03-19 at 02:32 PM ----------
If it gets worse and not better it is 100% blizzards fault for giving 10s a higher return on investment.
They arent dying because of Blizzard, they are dying because deep down, even the most hardcore raiders cba with them.
What you need to accept is that 25 man raiding is flawed the entire idea of raiding infact is flawed. People do it to get better loot
Which is exactly what you would recommend isent it? Make 25 mans give better loot so people are forced into it again?
Look at that statement above, is there a single word that sticks out like a sore thumb?
How about "forced", forcing players to do things by litterally buying them signals to me that raiding as a whole is just something we do for loot, not so much for fun.
347 25m guilds have done H Madness, 8,675 actual players.
925 10m guilds have done H Madness, 9,250 actual players.
That's actually fairly close, moreso than I thought it would be. The percentages are different, but that's too be expected due to just more 10 man guilds this patch.
I'd still rather a choice in raid size compared to the set sizes per tier that Rift has.
When for every tier on your server the number of 25 is reduced by 50-75% down to 2 now 25s are dying.
I've had a lot of conversations with people and they say, i want the purples and i want to raid.
At the moment you get the same purples in 10s and ou dont have to swap in 10s you've got 12-14people in you're 10man raidteam vs. 35-37 in your 25 man. So a lot of times you have to swap or pass in 25s. And you need those 35-37 because people sometimes don't show up or say in advance sry got reallife commitments that evening.
So did blizzard make 25s die they haven't announced it yet but its like throwing people out of an airplane ripping of their parachute telling them you'll be fine.
Fangless, look how many have kill H morchok and compare...
2759 guilds have kill H Morchok 25 or 68975 people.
26811 guilds have killed H Morchok 10 or 268110 people.
That's almost a 4:1 ratio of 10 -25.
Now let's look at regular DW:
3001 guilds have killed reg madness 25 or 75025 people.
32999 guilds have killed reg madness 10 or 329990 people.
4.4:1 ratio... As you go further in the ratio gets even bigger.
11,500 25man guilds killed normal LK that's 287,500 people who saw normal LK die.
50,000 10man guilds killed normal LK that's 500,000 people who saw LK die.
3,000 25man guilds killed normal madness that's 75,000 people who saw Deathwing die.
33,000 10man guilds killed normal madness that's 330,000 people who saw Deathwing die.
for 25mans from LK to Deathwing the numbers dropped from 287,500 to 75,000. That's a difference of 212, 500.
for 10mans from LK to Deathwing the numbers dropped from 500,000 to 330,000. That's a difference of 170,000.
25s have 212,500 less people killing Deathwing that killed LK.
10s have 170,000 less people killing Deathwing that killed LK.
Therefor, 25s suffered a greater loss and you are incorrect that "more people have done 25 than 10 in cata" because as you can see from the numbers 330,000 people have done 10 and only 75,000 have done 25 in Cata.
People want to be appreciated and I also want other ppl to know that I did this content on 25 man not 10 man and that is also a great advertisement for my guild = ppl applying = guild not dying.
Blizz doesn't make you run 10 man over 25 man you got the choice the size you want to raid. If your guild decide to run 10 man instead of 25 then move to a 25 man raid guild or start your own guild and see how hard it is to run a 25 man raid.
I had to do 25 man in LK because 95% of BiS was coming from it and i never like 25 man raid. Alot people that was doing 25 man back then it was for the same reason. Now that 10 man are the same loot now we don't have to run 25 man anymore. Why should i run 25 man because 1% of the wow raiding community say so. People are saying Blizz force them to run 10 man in Cata well then Blizz force me to run 25 man in LK. I got 4 word for you Payback is a b***
It comes down to....well a single person is smart, but people as a whole are not. They will follow the pack and do whats easiest.Which right now is 10man raiding.
There is still some (myself included) that dont even consider 10manning a raid to even have a point, that i just flat out refuse to do it. Theres VERY VERY few things that i would quit this game over, and not having large 25+man raiding is one of them.
There is exactly 2 25man guilds left on our server, and about a hundred million 10mans. I can accept they drop the same loot i guess, even with the increased difficulty of running a 25man raid. But they really need to keep both running with benefits to running them.
Last I checked, world progression was still measured by 25-man raiding.
It is a different story deciding something for yourself and a different story
1) finding 24 other like minded people (that like 25 over 10) and
2) your timeschedule fits and
3) They don't mind settling for less progress and
4) They don't mind the less loot that comes with less progress.
Nice try, i wish people stop thinking as individuals for team activities!