"Top secret" 2 billion dollar facility in Utah; to spy on citizens

[Bigbazz]

Well if its on MMO champion they did a bloody crap job of keeping it "Top Secret"

[Idoru]

You should read the book 'The Cobra' by Frederick forsyth, the government changes the classification of drug smuggling from a crime to an act of terrorism, so they use special forces guys to go and sink boats and use spy drones to track the smugglers, it's really good, and kinda scary how by simply changing a few words on a sheet of paper, drunk smuggling goes from ending up in prison, so having a bunch of special forces dudes pointing a machine gun at your head.

To be honest, I would actually be fine with treating drug(/drunk) smugglers this way.

[Deleted]

Ok they didn't go that far in the book, they only went after the big boys. But there is a simple solution to your problem, don't do drugs. Every conspiracy theory on this forum comes back to, if you're not doing anything wrong, you got nothing to worry about, but i'll admit doing a search of a kids room cause he smoked a joint is a bit excessive.

Those who work for these agencies are not saints. They are not angels. The moment you realize that these people are greedy just like the rest of us, and will use these powers for their own benefit, is the moment that the argument of "if you don't do anything wrong, you don't have to worry" is shattered to a thousand pieces.

[Jager]

Those who work for these agencies are not saints. They are not angels. The moment you realize that these people are greedy just like the rest of us, and will use these powers for their own benefit, is the moment that the argument of "if you don't do anything wrong, you don't have to worry" is shattered to a thousand pieces.

I am fully aware that they aren't little angels who are only out to serve and protect. But the point still stand, don't bring yourself to their attention by doing something wrong, and they won't have cause to bother you.

[Idoru]

Those who work for these agencies are not saints. They are not angels. The moment you realize that these people are greedy just like the rest of us, and will use these powers for their own benefit, is the moment that the argument of "if you don't do anything wrong, you don't have to worry" is shattered to a thousand pieces.

And some times the needs of the many actually do outweigh the needs of the few ... or the one.

[Jager]

To be honest, I would actually be fine with treating drug(/drunk) smugglers this way.

I was all for blowing the smugglers out of the skies and seas, but the twist in the book was, the guy running the operation took all the seized cocaine and tried to sell it on himself, needless to say he himself got caught and shot out the skies

[Deleted]

And some times the needs of the many actually do outweigh the needs of the few ... or the one.

What does this have to do with anything?

Surely spying on everyone to prevent a couple incidents from happening is not in the benefit of the many, but of the few.

[saberon]

What does this have to do with anything?

It has to do with everything. If a few people feel violated because a super-computer is searching trillions of calls, emails and messages to pinpoint and stop terrorists from blowing up shit, then they need to suck it up.

Not getting blown up > your feelings.

[Kelticfox]

Been done since the 1960-1970's with the ECHELON project. Whilst it was originally set up to monitor the eastern bloc during the cold war for Signal Intelligence (SIGINT), it migrated to email in the 90's. There was a massive uproar about it and PGP was developed.

Technology exists to at least make it harder for them to intercept (because lets face it, they won't announce they can break public encryptions)

[Tstr88]

95% of the fear the public shows towards government monitoring of their internets is due to the general public not wanting their porn and sexual habits known.

Edit: The other 5% are criminals and terrorists.

[Bakis]

Dont really think anyone is surprised, least of all americans.

[obdigore]

95% of the fear the public shows towards government monitoring of their internets is due to the general public not wanting their porn and sexual habits known.

Edit: The other 5% are criminals and terrorists.

I would guess its more 99% and 1%, but hey.

[ButterToast]

only in ... nvm

but it does seem to be a nice place to work at :P (not even joking xD)

[Sorrior]

This thread reminds me of this movie

[Tstr88]

I would guess its more 99% and 1%, but hey.

It's actually just 100% because terrorists and criminals don't want their porn habits known either. Especially terrorists.

[Lynarii]

It has to do with everything. If a few people feel violated because a super-computer is searching trillions of calls, emails and messages to pinpoint and stop terrorists from blowing up shit, then they need to suck it up.

Not getting blown up > your feelings.

The thing about this is that your actual chances of being killed by a radical islamic terrorist as a civilian in the US is small. VERY small. If you look at the FBI databases, from 1980 to 2005, there were 318 terrorist attacks on US soil. Of those, only 19 of them were by islamic extremists. Significantly more people die every year in the US to autoerotic asphyxiation (estimated 600 per year) than to terrorism. Is terrorism a threat? Yes. Should it be taken seriously? Yes. Should it be weighted so greatly that we give up the very freedoms that the country is founded on in order to fight it? Probably not.

[Jager]

The thing about this is that your actual chances of being killed by a radical islamic terrorist as a civilian in the US is small. VERY small. If you look at the FBI databases, from 1980 to 2005, there were 318 terrorist attacks on US soil. Of those, only 19 of them were by islamic extremists. Significantly more people die every year in the US to autoerotic asphyxiation (estimated 600 per year) than to terrorism. Is terrorism a threat? Yes. Should it be taken seriously? Yes. Should it be weighted so greatly that we give up the very freedoms that the country is founded on in order to fight it? Probably not.

So are you suggesting the FBI use that super computer to look for people with tendency to strangle themselves while masturbating?

OK that just trolling.

But lets face it, if they don't spend that money on that super computer, and lets say another 9-11 happens, you'll all be sitting here complaining that we had the technology to build a super computer to monitor all our emails and phone calls, so why wasn't it done?

[Lynarii]

Because, bluntly, 2 billion dollars worth of new hospitals (just as an example) would save the lives of more US citizens than a system that successfully stopped every single terrorist attack between 1980 and 2005, including 9/11. Again, it's not that terrorism is not a threat or shouldn't be taken seriously, but you have to understand that every dollar spent on one threat is a dollar that is not spent on another. Which means that a responsible government has to weight all the threats, and allocate money to them according to what will have the greatest effect, not on what is the public buzzwords of the day. Money DOES need to be spent on protecting us from terrorism, no doubt about it. Having no safeguards in place would simply make the US a more tempting target. The question is whether this amount of money spent on this specific project really delivers optimal returns. Especially when it's just /a/ tool, not even THE tool in the fight.

[Sorrior]

So are you suggesting the FBI use that super computer to look for people with tendency to strangle themselves while masturbating?

OK that just trolling.

But lets face it, if they don't spend that money on that super computer, and lets say another 9-11 happens, you'll all be sitting here complaining that we had the technology to build a super computer to monitor all our emails and phone calls, so why wasn't it done?

I probably wouldn't. I'd most likely be saying what i did after 9/11. Rebuild and move on. Death is part of life. And this view was coming from a 14-15 year old. I never panicked in fact it was our government that had me more worried than anything post 9/11. But then i can remove emotions from such things so i thought about how often we had been attacked before and just made it through. Well that and i NEVER thought america was invincible and THAT is what got most people. They thought we were untouchable and well this is the outcome. Panicking people everywhere going "please take my freedom and liberties if it will just keep me safe from the outside threat". That seems to be how most people react. But then i've always been a bit of an anomaly even my medical doctor admits that LOL.

[Draeblin]

95% of the fear the public shows towards government monitoring of their internets is due to the general public not wanting their porn and sexual habits known.

Edit: The other 5% are criminals and terrorists.

Yeah exactly... When it's about terrorism it's probably like 99,99999% to the rest (1 in 10mio for nr of terrorists in the us). And no terrorist who is a bit intelligent can be tracked like that - this is what mail encryption was made for. So you have to know first who is a terrorist to track him and then you can do it 'oldschool' without violation the rights of 300+ mio people (+the other hundreds of millions outside the us).
You could spend the money somewhere else and save 10x the people you save today from terrorist attacks.