The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Kisho]

hmmmmm....i thought this was the thread for brewmaster tanking guide......................

Yeah, it's a good point. Arguments are one thing, but now we're just ganging up on djtravitrav. The point is made, shall we move on please?

[gynshon]

Yeah, it's a good point. Arguments are one thing, but now we're just ganging up on djtravitrav. The point is made, shall we move on please?

We weren't really ganging up on him. He made some blatant statements, people pushed against them, and then he comes out and makes even more foolish comments, so some responded back.

But I think this has been beaten to death. Since people come and ask for advice, and then don't really listen anyway, here you go:

Haste = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Crit = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Mastery = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Agility = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Spirit = gem/reforge into this. All of your stats, into spirit. If you have good spirits, you can accomplish anything in life.

[siccora]

Now thats too ironic.

At first i thought this forum is the new EJ. But now for the last pages it is just inch vs inch.

[The Madgod]

But I think this has been beaten to death. Since people come and ask for advice, and then don't really listen anyway, here you go:

Haste = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Crit = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Mastery = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Agility = whatever you feel comfortable using.
Spirit = gem/reforge into this. All of your stats, into spirit. If you have good spirits, you can accomplish anything in life.

Now thats too ironic.

At first i thought this forum is the new EJ. But now for the last pages it is just inch vs inch.

And this is proof we're done. I don't want any more of this. Keep everything here relatively serious, and quit with the passive-aggressive.

[Alucin]

TLDR; Agi stack, Crit stack, or Hardcap -> Crit stack, OR hardcap ->agi stack

That having been said gemming for agi when you can's not going to hurt you. I know some brewmasters do it because they go windwalker a lot and that's the best setup for them I think.

yup. agi is not that far off being 2x other stats. it's mainly used if you WW off spec, at which point the difference is negligible enough that gemming the utility is fine. once you are happy with your expertise and/or chi generation, well agi is your next best red slot stat, so go nuts says i. (you usually don't need too much more expertise than is on gear anyway). i could probably gem away from expertise in red slots these days, i just haven't.

[djtravitrav]

Wow. Well, don't care if I get warned or not at this point. The whole community knows you are wrong, so on with it.

1st - Challenge modes are irrelevant to this conversation. However, just because I haven't done Challenge modes, doesn't mean anything. I don't care to, because I don't like the look of the gear gained from them, so see no reason too. Many in my guild feel the same way. It is not a priority for us. Besides, it is 5 man heroics. Are you going to bring up Brawler guild too? How about old raid soloing? Tiddlywinks? I am a mean Go Fish player, let's try that.

So do you really think that a 16/16HM Brewmaster with top world ranks in Heroic kills in the #2 US 10man guild wouldn't be able to complete miniscule Challenge modes with said guildmates? Please.

2nd - LOL, the old 10m versus 25 debate again? When you down 16/16hm 25man, come talk. Until then, don't bring up the argument, when even 25man raiders said that most fights this tier were more difficult in 10 versus 25. You can COMPLETELY ignore mechanics in 25man this tier. 4 tanks for Stone Guard, Garajal voodoo doesn't hose a raid because there are 15 more targets to choose from, Multiple people assigned to sparks, and DK's were KING on there, Rages were CC'd and ignored. That is just MsV, want me to continue?

3rd - You are wanting me to put stock in normals, when no one does, and yet you bring up Challenge modes against me. Pot meet Kettle. I have multiple top 10 ranks in normals back when it was progression on normals, while in BLUES. You have top 10 ranks after you have had months of daily grinding, LFR, Normal gear gained, etc. Congratulations, you are a pro player.

But for fun and giggles:

When I was in Topped Off (15/16HM before I left and they finished top 5 US 10man):
http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/illidan/genshin/

Nightmare Asylum:
http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/mug'thol/genshen/
http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/mug'thol/ginshen/

4th - You obviously do not know me, or anything about me. You obviously do not know that I used to raid in Adept back when T11 came out, World 9th 25man. You also didn't know that I held over 60 top 200 world parses on my Shaman. You obviously didn't know I held top ranks on my alt lock during the same time frame. You obviously didn't know that I have had offers from several top 25 man guilds, but I prefer the 10man raiding environment with my current guild because I have a job, family, and a social life.

5th - If you knew anything about 10man and heroic raiding, you wouldn't be making the claims you have. See, in 10m, you don't carry people like you can in 25. I know a tank that was horrible, never used his personal cooldowns, trinkets, etc. Flat out horrible. Was sat for every boss in progression. He then went to a 25man guild where the other tank actually TOLD HIM what to do, when to do it, how to do it, etc in every fight. Literally. "use your cooldown now", "move boss now", "interrupt now" etc etc. He was carried to 16/16HM. Can't do that in a 10man environment.

I've never seen anyone get so defensive. I must have hit a nerve. Why not post your college transcripts as well to let us know how smart you are IRL, you clearly have something you need to prove to everyone.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;thol/ginshen/
One rank under 10 after months of farm. You're not even playing the same game as I am. You may as well gem all spirit, you are worthless to your raid.

[Deleted]

I've never seen anyone get so defensive. I must have hit a nerve. Why not post your college transcripts as well to let us know how smart you are IRL, you clearly have something you need to prove to everyone.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;thol/ginshen/
One rank under 10 after months of farm. You're not even playing the same game as I am. You may as well gem all spirit, you are worthless to your raid.

Dude you're 5/16 heroic and ranking in normals with 500 ilvl

I don't even understand why you would comment on a clearly much superior players ranks when you're currently competing in the special olympics?

You're out of your league, you'll be better off if you keep doing those challenge modes instead.



So to get this back on track..

Anyone tried the PTR last night? Specifically thinking of the Dark Animus encounter

Monk tanks with teleport seem pretty overpowered - could skip the tank swap mechanic making it into a 1 tank encounter instead of 2. I Can definitely see some sort of change to avoid this.

[Asmalya]

I've never seen anyone get so defensive. I must have hit a nerve. Why not post your college transcripts as well to let us know how smart you are IRL, you clearly have something you need to prove to everyone.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;thol/ginshen/
One rank under 10 after months of farm. You're not even playing the same game as I am. You may as well gem all spirit, you are worthless to your raid.

I sure hope you get infracted for this post. Or better yet banned so we can go on with constructive posts in this forum.
If you still dont know by now that gin changed raids then i can't help you.

But insulting peoples progress when your own looks so bad...i dont even,

[Chuupag]

I've never seen anyone get so defensive. I must have hit a nerve. Why not post your college transcripts as well to let us know how smart you are IRL, you clearly have something you need to prove to everyone.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;thol/ginshen/
One rank under 10 after months of farm. You're not even playing the same game as I am. You may as well gem all spirit, you are worthless to your raid.

You are still not understanding that dps does not make a tank good. Who cares what your dps is? There are ways to game the system with that stuff. Congratz...you are the king of making your penis look bigger by taking odd camera angle shots and putting it next to small fake dollar bills and such.

[Malthanis]

Okay, since Madgod's friendly warning wasn't enough, this is the big red angry one. Drop the bickering. Now. Anything on this line of discussion will be infracted from this point on.

[imoom]

^ Ty.

WIll be interesting to see if they change rune of reorig.. as was almost hinted by ghostcrawler.
I think talisman of bloodlust will be one of the "best" trinkets, i just dont know how to gear for it, "enough haste without it" and it is almost wasted, and the other way around is bound to lead to chi starved moments of doom. Should also make some simulations on what uptime to expect of each number of stacks, dont quite have the time at the moment myself unfortunatly.

[Kisho]

^ Ty.

WIll be interesting to see if they change rune of reorig.. as was almost hinted by ghostcrawler.
I think talisman of bloodlust will be one of the "best" trinkets, i just dont know how to gear for it, "enough haste without it" and it is almost wasted, and the other way around is bound to lead to chi starved moments of doom. Should also make some simulations on what uptime to expect of each number of stacks, dont quite have the time at the moment myself unfortunatly.

I've been following trinket discussion for various agility classes, and the general consensus seems to be that the Rune is kinda bad. At the very least, people are hesitant, pending actual testing. We'll see what happens, but at the very least I highly doubt we'll go for it unless it sees changes.

As for the Talisman of Bloodlust... It's a shame it isn't 100% uptime. That'd be easy to figure out: I'd even be fine with it having less haste than it currently does, if only it meant a 100% uptime. As it is currently I'm now leaning away from it and towards the VP trinket in the first instance (with renataki's in the second slot), or maybe Bad Juju.

That said, the proc on Talisman won't be wasted... It'll help us build up a backlog of Shuffle when we don't need it, or allow us to purify more when we do. No matter when it procs, it'll help in some way.

[gynshon]

I've never seen anyone get so defensive. I must have hit a nerve. Why not post your college transcripts as well to let us know how smart you are IRL, you clearly have something you need to prove to everyone.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;thol/ginshen/
One rank under 10 after months of farm. You're not even playing the same game as I am. You may as well gem all spirit, you are worthless to your raid.

To be fair, Wowheroes doesn't track name changes. I have had two, first when moving from Illidan to Mug'thol, and the second while on Mug'thol for an account issue trying to rename to my original name. Gm allowed it, but it didn't clear the first one yet, so just said screw it, wasn't worth it.

Hence me posting the epeenbots. Or you can check WoL itself individually for ranks.

As Chuupag said, it isn't all about the DPS. There are many factors involved.

On topic:

From PTR testing:

Haste/Crit are still highly desired stats. The 25% to Mastery boost was decent, but it also makes you PB more, with how hard bosses are hitting for. The closer we can get to 100% avoidance, the better we will be.

[Deleted]

We don't really need that much haste and the stacks on talisman are rather big. 5.2 gear will have a huge amount of stats, and with the bloated loot tables we're probably not going to have any luxury picking our BiS items that quickly so I'm guessing that even with reforging out of all haste we can still easily end up with 3-4k of it. If you then just have some stacks of the trinket at certain points to help out energy regen, it can easily be more than enough haste to cover all our chi-needs (especially with 4pc bonus). It's not like having 5 stacks of it would all of a sudden result in it going to waste due to constant energy capping like it would for windwalker. I'm thinking of - when I'd get my hands on it - to go hit/exp > crit and just ignore all haste; should be enough on average from the proc to have enough.

[Deleted]

the 5 is for base miss chance
if targetlv == -1 then
basemisschance = (5 - (3*.2))
leveldifference = 3

That's not correct in MoP. Lvl 90 mobs have 3% miss chance against a lvl 90 player, lvl 91 have 1.5% miss chance, and lvl 92 and 93 have 0% miss chance.

dodge = (GetDodgeChance()-leveldifference*.2)
parry = (GetParryChance()-leveldifference*.2)
block = (GetBlockChance()-leveldifference*.2)

That's not correct either. There is a 1.5% dodge suppression per level difference. Same with parry and block. So that's 4.5% dodge and 4.5% parry against a boss.

[gynshon]

That's not correct in MoP. Lvl 90 mobs have 3% miss chance against a lvl 90 player, lvl 91 have 1.5% miss chance, and lvl 92 and 93 have 0% miss chance.

That's not correct either. There is a 1.5% dodge suppression per level difference. Same with parry and block. So that's 4.5% dodge and 4.5% parry against a boss.

This was a carryover from previous. Will change accordingly.

[Kisho]

We don't really need that much haste and the stacks on talisman are rather big. 5.2 gear will have a huge amount of stats, and with the bloated loot tables we're probably not going to have any luxury picking our BiS items that quickly so I'm guessing that even with reforging out of all haste we can still easily end up with 3-4k of it. If you then just have some stacks of the trinket at certain points to help out energy regen, it can easily be more than enough haste to cover all our chi-needs (especially with 4pc bonus). It's not like having 5 stacks of it would all of a sudden result in it going to waste due to constant energy capping like it would for windwalker. I'm thinking of - when I'd get my hands on it - to go hit/exp > crit and just ignore all haste; should be enough on average from the proc to have enough.

That's the sort of thing I'm thinking of too. Lower my haste a little bit (from, say, 6k to 4k), then when I get 4 set T15 just ignore haste entirely. We'll get enough from base gear I'd imagine.

[cyqu]

Considering I raid one night, 4 hours a week per character in a GDKP where I profit 60k gold per week, I'm fine with what I accomplished. You put no stock in normals, I have three #2 ranks this tier. If I was ever so inclined to join a progression guild, I would dominate their raids as well. I guess my point is link your character some time so I can embarrass you in the same way you attempted to do to me. I'm sure if you're amazing.

Actually I just found your character, you appear to be just another guy that gets carried by his gear and the quality of the guild around him. Zero challenge modes done? That speaks volumes of your personal skill more than anything dude. You have no right to be throwing any stones at anyone. Considering you raid 10m as well lends even less credit to your accusations.

ok i have three #1 ranks on heroic mode, i must be the best ever so you should listen to me

edit: a little late to the party and didn't see Malthanis warning :S

That's the sort of thing I'm thinking of too. Lower my haste a little bit (from, say, 6k to 4k), then when I get 4 set T15 just ignore haste entirely. We'll get enough from base gear I'd imagine.

not sure i would want to rely on procs for energy regen like derpatte is suggesting, even with the changes to our chi using abilities.

[Ahsakura]

I have a quick question about Challenge Modes since my IRL friends in my Guild and I want to start running some after we're capped for the week and such.

I read somewhere that getting a set of 463 Gear from Heroic dungeons is better for Challenge Modes since the scaling for higher level gear can cause you to lose stats. Because of this I've been rerunning Heroic Dungeons when I'm bored to get that gear. But I can't help but wonder if this is the case, will a set of 463 Gear really be better? Obviously set bonuses might factor in here as well since I have my 2-piece bonus currently.

[Zonex]

yeaa it will, you can farm a set with zero mastery, and optimize is just like you want, unless you wanna reforge everytme you switch between raids and CMs, seperate sets are better.