The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Herschel]

I use both personally. I feel like reforgelite does a better job at hitting the hit/expertise caps closer more consistently, but using AMR after the 5.2 updates for overall optimization, upgrade suggestions, where to spend coins/vp ect. Plus reforgelite is the easiest way to quickly slap together adjusted gear after you get a new drop mid-raid.

My current setup doesn't match either option so the finest tuning can still ultimately be done by you.

The only thing I don't like about ReforgeLite is that it only seems to work with 2 caps. So you can set a cap for hit/expertise, but not haste.

AMR lets you set however many caps you want, but of course doesn't automatically do the reforging for you.

So it's generally a question of whether my desire to optimize my reforging will win out over my laziness. What I've been doing recently is using ReforgeLite to get the hit/expertise caps, then adjusting the reforging myself to get the amount of haste vs. crit that I want.

[apepi]

@Apepi: I doubt crit has much use in PvP considering you need to be attacking for EB and it'll only mitigate melee and not spells. In my opinion haste is the way to go, of course gemming in as much pvp resi as you can.

Thanks, after haste what other stats should I prioritize after it?

[SurrealNight]

So it's generally a question of whether my desire to optimize my reforging will win out over my laziness. What I've been doing recently is using ReforgeLite to get the hit/expertise caps, then adjusting the reforging myself to get the amount of haste vs. crit that I want.

Just ignore non-hit/expertise (since they are part of the cap scheme) X -> Haste if you have to much or X -> Crit if you are low on Haste.

Usually while doing the reforging just ignoring a few Crit -> Haste or Haste -> or Mastery -> Crit vs Haste suggestions fixes ya right up. Don't even need to input a cap for Haste (at least I don't bother).

[Crevan]

Tortos, for example, is a perfect situation where you'd use zen sphere.

An argument for Chi Wave on Tortos would be an easy way to get the Crystal Shell debuff - focus the crystal and use an @focus macro with CW. The crystals require a direct hit to trigger, so Zen Sphere's aoe ticks do nothing here, while CW will allow you to get it without dropping your current target. This will work better if you're tanking the turtle itself, though. I would still choose ZS for bats.

[Hinalover]

An argument for Chi Wave on Tortos would be an easy way to get the Crystal Shell debuff - focus the crystal and use an @focus macro with CW. The crystals require a direct hit to trigger, so Zen Sphere's aoe ticks do nothing here, while CW will allow you to get it without dropping your current target. This will work better if you're tanking the turtle itself, though. I would still choose ZS for bats.

One issue with that is the travel time since depending on where you are could take several seconds before it hits. I would personally use Crackling Jade Lightning.

[kaiadam]

I have strongly recommended and while theorycrafted favored the "haste(to enough) then maximize crit" gearing strategy, but now, few days into heroic progress, and 150ish attempts on Elder Council 10man HC. I died some on both horridon hc and now elder council. After a while (both bosses), i said; "well, gonna try going mastery reforge then, and if that doesnt work, i log my pala alt". It is ofc a balance of still having enough haste, but i died alot less. If this is because healers "learned", or my actual gearing change is hard to say, with so few bosses.

Is this something others have noticed during heroic progress so far as well?

Maximizing crit is what I'd recommend for trivial content that poses no risk of actually killing you. If there are tank deaths (and there will be during progression), rather than just asking everyone (aka healers & yourself) to play better, you could just raise the threshold at which you'll die by going mastery. And the ridiculous thing about it is it scales so well - we killed horridon 20 seconds into berserk and he hit me 3 times with his +900% damage buff without actually killing me. Here was one of the lines:

Horridon hits Daught 333,226 (5,290,648 absorbed).

GG2piece + fort brew + dampen harm (I go full mastery, with almost 11k stats into it so far.)

An argument for Chi Wave on Tortos would be an easy way to get the Crystal Shell debuff - focus the crystal and use an @focus macro with CW. The crystals require a direct hit to trigger, so Zen Sphere's aoe ticks do nothing here, while CW will allow you to get it without dropping your current target. This will work better if you're tanking the turtle itself, though. I would still choose ZS for bats.

Indeed, I use crackling jade lightning as Hinalover said - you can see from the kill video in my sig. It actually doesn't require a direct hit, a targeted hostile action is enough (except taunt. *grumble*) so you CJL and instantly cancel it and you still have the shield without costing you time or energy.

You should also be tanking the bats for sure, we're the best tank class by miles for them on heroic.

Also, I was disappointed to find out that zen sphere ticks are targeted =/ it only shoots at the closest hostile - the aoe pulse is upon detonation, sigh.

[gynshon]

Maximizing crit is what I'd recommend for trivial content that poses no risk of actually killing you. If there are tank deaths (and there will be during progression), rather than just asking everyone (aka healers & yourself) to play better, you could just raise the threshold at which you'll die by going mastery. And the ridiculous thing about it is it scales so well - we killed horridon 20 seconds into berserk and he hit me 3 times with his +900% damage buff without actually killing me. Here was one of the lines:

Horridon hits Daught 333,226 (5,290,648 absorbed).

GG2piece + fort brew + dampen harm (I go full mastery, with almost 11k stats into it so far.)



Indeed, I use crackling jade lightning as Hinalover said - you can see from the kill video in my sig. It actually doesn't require a direct hit, a targeted hostile action is enough (except taunt. *grumble*) so you CJL and instantly cancel it and you still have the shield without costing you time or energy.

You should also be tanking the bats for sure, we're the best tank class by miles for them on heroic.

Also, I was disappointed to find out that zen sphere ticks are targeted =/ it only shoots at the closest hostile - the aoe pulse is upon detonation, sigh.

I hate you and 2 piece. 25 mans.... /sigh. 8(

[Dimzum]

I've read over a bit of this thread (mostly just the last 50 pages or so relating to 5.1 and 5.2). I am just starting to tank seriously with my Monk (and first time ever raid tanking seriously on any toon). Feel free to check out my armory: Dimzum - Alleria [US].

After reading the expertise thread I'll probably play around with changing up my gems and reforging, but I had some more complicated questions that might could get answered here. I currently have LFR t14 head and chest. I also have LFR WW shoulders, 504 WW hands and 496 WW pants (thought I use the 489 pants from MSV). My raid group is really just starting to work on Garalon in HoF, so expecting tier pieces to replace the LFR stuff may have to wait. I did manage the LFR tanking shoulders to drop, but should I replace the 504 gloves with 483 LFR tanking, or the 489 pants for the tier set?

Also, I upgraded my trinket with the Shado-Pan 522 yesterday. I still have 2/2 upgrade Relic and the Jade Warlord. I figured I would keep both and swap as necessary. Anyone have a better idea?

[Crevan]

One issue with that is the travel time since depending on where you are could take several seconds before it hits. I would personally use Crackling Jade Lightning.

As I mentioned in my post, I was talking about tanking Tortos in this scenario. There's a crystal right next to it on the right where you can stand, practically eliminating travel time.

You should also be tanking the bats for sure, we're the best tank class by miles for them on heroic.

I was stepping in for our tank who was on holidays, and our officers were a little skeptical about me tanking the bats with an hp pool lower than our warrior mt. In any case, I feel like brewmasters work great for Tortos as well, since we can stagger the snapping bites.

[Archdrood]

I was stepping in for our tank who was on holidays, and our officers were a little skeptical about me tanking the bats with an hp pool lower than our warrior mt. In any case, I feel like brewmasters work great for Tortos as well, since we can stagger the snapping bites.

Yes, I tank Tortos as well, but I have the war tank bring the bats on top of me. KS + Spin, Spin and they dead. With all the boss vengeance it kills the bats so fast. I pulled aggro in a couple fights but know when to start on them now.

[DesireKT]

Just as a point of reference I've found Chi Torpedo heals to be extremely powerful for fights like Megaera and the Cave in's on Tortos. I'm sure there's other useful situations but for me I was tanking the "lead" head on Megaera (not the kill target the one you kill next.) So I grabbed Chi Torpedo and Celerity since the DPS on my target was irrelevant. With well timed out Zen Spheres you can manage 2 detonates during the grouped up aoe phase and 4 torpedo's. I've seen 140k crit heals from torpedo (I'll give you it was probably 90% overheal but still.) I'm pretty sure I did a lot better last week in the healing from them but the log didn't record properly.

I'd also started using it on the bats and found out it was a pretty big dps boost as well averaging 160k crits.

Nozomi
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4120&e=4664

Completely 100% situational but still the potential is there to really help out the raid more than you might have thought.

[Alucin]

Maegara, my co-tank is a pally.

we were trying with 4 healers last night, we still had issues with survivability but were eventually getting up to the 2nd last head/last transition.

I was tanking between venom head and frozen head, raid dps would kill venom then fire and ignore frozen head.

I lost all my logs for when we had 4 heals unfortunately. any general recommendations for the fight? how would you split up the tanking? is anyone doing tank swaps on the fire head?

i've also reforged a bit into mastery for next time. (even if i am aware that most of the spike damage that kills us is spell damage and not staggerable - it will help decrease general tank damage so healers can deal with the raid better.4)

[Zonex]

We do it with a BrM + Dk/pally and 2.5ish healers (MW goes crazy fistweaving until Rampage comes then does actual healing).

Pallies and monks are equally good on the Fire and Venom head, but just because of the RNG range issues sometimes its prolly best to stick your Pally on the Fire head.

The thing with the Fire head is that it basically requires constant healing, but the pro of being a pally is that you can Hand of Purity it when it gets dangerous, (yes he can use it on you too if you tanked the Fire head, but sometimes your head is wayyy far back and youre not in range).

The thing with the Venom head is, its basically creeping damage (as in the breath gets more dangerous the longer the head is alive), but as BrM's you counter this pretty amazingly, I'm sure you've noticed it, but the Breath is basically 3 gigantic hits every 1s for 3s. The trick to not dying or having about 70% + hp when you come out of it is proper Guard/EH/HS/Hsp/GotO usage. You have to remember your healers are going to be healing, what you want to block from happening is getting down to 10% hp by the end of the breath (because a melee hit after will kill you). This is how i do it;

1st = Guard
2nd = EH + Goto + Healing spheres if you need them
3rd = Diffuse Magic
4th = Guard

Now when i mention these abilities (barring Diffuse Magic), you don't want to use them BEFORE the breath actually happens, that's not gonna do you as much good as using it after 1 or 2 ticks. Especially with the EH and orbs and everything, you're basically taking dmg and healing it up by yourself really quick, it shouldn't be an issue. The main objective is to not die, so yea, take advantage of your actual Health pool being. Also this is a given, but unless youre at like 15 stacks, don't use your EB after the first breath, start chaining it after the 2nd. And finally you want to save Fortifying Brew for the Frozen head (doesn't matter when) that guy will just do a lot of physical dmg with the amount of stacks he'll have towards the end. Finally, if youre every unsure, or you don't have a CD up, you can always use Zen Med to completely nullify a breath, just rotate your CDs and 4 healers will feel like overkill.

[djtravitrav]

Changed my vote back to chi wave, since the fix, it's dps is off the charts.

[Alucin]

@Zonex - yeah i'm pretty much rotating in a similar way - except (glyphed) guard usually covers it completely - might get a bit of damage off last tick - i save EH for after each breath.

1 - Guard
2 - Diffuse
3 - Guard up again
4 (if required) - Fort brew (pick up gift orbs) or Zen Med.

between that, gift orbs, EB for melee - popped as breath finishes, i'm keeping dmg as low as i can on me. I did have chi burst for raid heals - (from reading sunnier's post) but might switch to chi wave and just keep myself up if that's fixed now.
i'm putting xuen on the flame head too - pretty much up for each one with 4 heals... - to try to drop it quicker and therefore less debuffs on the pally tank.

i'm not sure that 4 heals was the best way - but RL (who is also one of our main healers) did say we wouldn't be surviving without it.

[djtravitrav]

has anyone else noticed that xuen does 0 crackling jade lightning damage to durumu? Apparently his hit box is so big, it puts him out of range for the dot to him the boss.

[Rixarius]

OK. So, here's my question for all you pro Monk tanks out there; do you feel like Monk tanks are less viable for progression as a whole than other tanks? From a big picture standpoint.

I love my Monk, I find the active tanking style really fun after an expac and a half of playing a Prot Paladin, but I feel like Monks just lack in several areas, such as handling spike damage, and magic damage. I know the class, I play the class well overall (Maintaining shuffle, proper CD usage, purifying so my stagger doesn't get outta control, yada yada) But the lack of armor and HP, on top of the dependency on avoidance RNG is really bad when it comes to progressing it feels like. I know Monks are unique and bring new utility to a raid, but while they are really strong in some areas, I feel like they lack too much in others. As where my Paladin would be good in several scenarios.

Personally, I think that a flat HP buff would fix this completely, I know alot of people feel that Monks are good as they are. And I respect that. But I just feel like unless the boss just Melees you steadily, or unless it's a fight that you can use your Monk utility to shine, they are a bad choice if you can bring something else.

[Zonex]

@Zonex - yeah i'm pretty much rotating in a similar way - except (glyphed) guard usually covers it completely - might get a bit of damage off last tick - i save EH for after each breath.

1 - Guard
2 - Diffuse
3 - Guard up again
4 (if required) - Fort brew (pick up gift orbs) or Zen Med.

between that, gift orbs, EB for melee - popped as breath finishes, i'm keeping dmg as low as i can on me. I did have chi burst for raid heals - (from reading sunnier's post) but might switch to chi wave and just keep myself up if that's fixed now.
i'm putting xuen on the flame head too - pretty much up for each one with 4 heals... - to try to drop it quicker and therefore less debuffs on the pally tank.

i'm not sure that 4 heals was the best way - but RL (who is also one of our main healers) did say we wouldn't be surviving without it.

Well that should suffice, its not a terribly hard fight for BrM's I'd say the issue lieswith your healers, there is only little you can do to up your survivability and those are pretty long winded explanations, which maybe save you 15% hp, but I'm thinking youre dying from more, so yea.. have a chat with your healers.

[Selfcontrol]

isn't kinda bad for monks to stack full mastery? as i think they will be purifying like mad, one of my mates told me mastery is better than haste/crit build but i think that is not correct to be honest, any ideas about the mastery build ?

[Deleted]

Mastery smoothens out the damage you take because you stagger a larger portion of the hits. You would have to purify more often, but you take less spike-damage. With a more crit-oriented build, you get more Elusive Brew stacks, thus higher dodge and in return less overall damage taken, but if you don't have Elusive Brew up or just get unlucky with your dodges, you can get spiked down rather quickly.

No build is necessarily "better" than the other, as mentioned, crit reduces the damage you take overall, so your healers should have a better time. On the other hand, they have to be aware that you can take tons of damage within a short period of time, which could be stressful. Here in this thread are some brewmasters from top-ranking guilds, some using a mastery-oriented build while other favor crit, so I guess you should use whatever you and your healers are more comfortable with.