The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[lairpie]

Got 2 piece tonight, it's even more underwhelming than I expected. It was about 3% of my healing for the fights I had it. And we got some logs up tonight, looks like the tanking meta is ~40% uptime for me, but I need to see what % of the time I'm actively tanking that it's up for better analysis. I'll probably keep using it, but I was curious about the effective uptime.

Something I noticed that I wanted to ask for details about: off tank wanted me to solo tank Immerseus, I said sure. Used Dampen Magic the first two stack of the attack I took, and the second time I figured my Niuzao cloak would cover it. However, it seemed to proc on the killing blow and not save me. I'm assuming there's an absorb limit, possibly max HP. The overkill was 1M, logs are linked below with a snippet shown. Gained the buff, but it didn't seem to absorb anything.


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...7/?s=411&e=658

Not sure what's up with the cape, but if you want to solo tank immerseus, it's best to either push him shortly before another breath so you clear during the adds, or chain stun/grip an sha puddle, or heal to not quite full, then life grip a contaminated puddle which will very slowly make it's way towards him, giving you ample time to clear.

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Might be a bad boss to counter values on but anyways.. did ordos on my monk last night and he got totally wrecked.. had shuffle up and EB every 10 or so stacks with almost 70% uptime... still i had to spam Purify like a horny donkey outside McDonalds... is it that i have to low ilvl for a dude like that or would it poss be im doing something wrong? (not asking WHAT i did wrong in that case, just want to eliminate one or the other)

edit; did a boss in flex at 3ilvls lower then currently and wasnt any issues. so starting to think its ordos himself that gimps my monk alot but still would like some feedback

I tanked him wiht my 550 ilvl last week and felt like I barely got touched and basically did nothing other than move him out of fire and do dps. Ordos is supposed to be for people coming into 5.4 with mostly heroic gear. Flex is supposed to be for people coming into the tier with mostly LFR and vp gear. I'd guess he's just dominating your gear.

[Sunnydee]

A fair enough. felt a bit akward at first that i took such immense amount of dmg but granted 515 ilvl might be the reason since im aware how to play the class

Thanks for the quick replay!

[Deleted]

Also what role you're doing in the fight and what fight and all sorts of stuff. This isn't people saying you have to decide to teach people a lesson in simming gear or something, there's really no answer and you have to decide and go with what works for you, your raid, and your role in the fight. Except haste, pretty much still bad. Not bad enough to avoid, but unless you are purifying constantly because your healers are really that bad, or you're doing content that is just that hard, you really don't need much. You can keep shuffle up, guard at will and purify quite a bit with 0 haste.

0 haste
12.65 energy per second (ascension + ox)
in 100 seconds that means I have 1265 energy to work with (not counting initial energy).
12.5 keg smashes generates 25 chi, costs 500 energy.
that leaves energy for ~19 EH, jab, RJW yielding 19 chi.
44 total chi
3 guards cost 6 chi.
100 seconds of guard costs 17 chi
21 left over chi. you can purify every 5 seconds with that Chi, which is a ton considering most fights you're not even tanking a lot of the time in some fights.
So, more haste is:
more dps, but its basically the worst dps stat
more EB, but unless you're crit capped, its worse than crit for EB, and if you're worried about dying, mastery is going to help more than additional gratuitous EB stacks at a poor rate
More Expel Harm spam at low HP. Technically yes, but adding the 5.6k haste that I can't ditch makes me jump up to 14.3, less than 2 energy per second. The odds that you happen to get an extra life saving EH off because of that are so incredibly small.

So yah, if you feel you need more haste, um, don't use random abilities or actually hit keg smash or whatever.

Don't know where you got that math from, but that is BS.

To keep your pattern:
0 haste
12.65 energy per second (ascension + ox)
in 100 seconds that means I have 1265 energy to work with (not counting initial energy).
12.5 keg smashes generates 25 chi, costs 500 energy.
that leaves energy for ~19 EH, jab, RJW yielding 19 chi.
44 total chi
3 guards cost 6 chi. - until this point we can leave it that way
100 seconds of guard costs 17 chi - i guess you meant 100 seconds of shuffle require 17 BOK which cost 34 CHI
21 left over chi. - after above correction you only have 4 CHI left = 1 PB every 25 seconds

I am really a big fan of those "even with 0 haste you can guard on CD, purify everything you want and still have 30min shuffle left at the end of the fight"-posts. Playing at really low haste levels requires some good control over your energy-spenders.

[SurrealNight]

Got 2 piece tonight, it's even more underwhelming than I expected. It was about 3% of my healing for the fights I had it.

Protection of Niuzao 854457 4.4 % 35 24413.1
So 4% on Nazgrim for me @ 24k per hit. Far from overwhelmed by it but on the flip side the loss of the 4p didn't sting as much as I expected at least not after the initial pull.

[Dimzum]

I dropped the 2 piece and 4 piece on Day 1 of SoO just to get used to it (was 3/4 LFR tier anyways). It's definitely taking some adjusting to. I also dropped LFR RoRO for the 535 Timeless trinket. We'll see how that goes.

[Promdates]

After running last night with Tank Meta, DPS Cloak, Crit RoRo and 4P T16 along with HE for every fight (minus I.J.)... I have to say, It felt fine. The 2p and 4p bonus didn't do a LOT of healing, and the 4p had a 33% overheal rate, but it didn't feel like the end of the world, nor did I feel like I was in any real danger without having the 2pT15 anymore while stacking crit.

[lairpie]

Don't know where you got that math from, but that is BS.

To keep your pattern:
0 haste
12.65 energy per second (ascension + ox)
in 100 seconds that means I have 1265 energy to work with (not counting initial energy).
12.5 keg smashes generates 25 chi, costs 500 energy.
that leaves energy for ~19 EH, jab, RJW yielding 19 chi.
44 total chi
3 guards cost 6 chi. - until this point we can leave it that way
100 seconds of guard costs 17 chi - i guess you meant 100 seconds of shuffle require 17 BOK which cost 34 CHI
21 left over chi. - after above correction you only have 4 CHI left = 1 PB every 25 seconds

I am really a big fan of those "even with 0 haste you can guard on CD, purify everything you want and still have 30min shuffle left at the end of the fight"-posts. Playing at really low haste levels requires some good control over your energy-spenders.

Oops, yeah meant 100 seconds of shuffle and spaced on bok costing 2 chi. Felt like that was even more chi than I thought. But the fact remains that with 0 haste you can still Guard, maintain 100% shuffle uptime and purify some. Given that almost every fight this tier involves substantial amounts of time not tanking or not tanking much, you're not going to guard on CD and you're going to go whole periods of time without purifying at all in most fights. I was looking through logs last night to see how much healing people were getting out of their 4pc bonus and found a lot of people purify even less than I do.

The point is that the solution to poor shuffle uptime is not, and will not be more haste. More haste gets you a very small gain on number of purifies and maybe a tiny gain on the number of Expel Harms you can use. Getting the 5.6k haste I have on my gear gets me up to 14.3 eps. So in that 100 seconds I get 1430 energy instead of 1265 a gain of 165 energy, or 4 extra chi. So that's enough to purify every 12.5 seconds, even if you're actually tanking something you'd ever purify the whole time. In the majority of fights, where you're only tanking 1/2 the time, that's a purify every 6 seconds. With the avoidance rates we have, there are fights I don't even get hit every 6 seconds.

Immerseus - only tanking like 1/3 of the time, maybe 1/2 on heroic depending how you do it
Protectors - do almost no damage even on heroic. (i used PB 6 times on our heroic kill and took 8 total ticks for over 100k, most were the 40k ticks from 1 melee hit landing)
Noroushen - the purify phase doesn't count because you wouldn't need to purify, the adds hit for very little so you're really only purifying while tanking the boss, so 1/2 the time.
Sha of pride - only tanking 1/2 the time
Galakras - one of you is only tanking 1/2 the time, but if you're staying down, you still have downtime between waves, and would be hard pressed to need to purify that often. Especially when higher crit, lower mastery is generally better for AOE tanking.
IJ - only tanking about 1/2 the time and the most threatening damage can't be staggered.
Dark Shaman - Ok, tanking the whole time, and not a completely meaningless target. They don't hit that hard, but I can see how this fight would justify something like 5k haste (the amount I have while trying to avoid haste).
Nazgrim - only tanking 1/2 the time and also does very little damage most of the fight
Molkorok - only tanking 1/2 the time but he does actually do damage. In a 4:25 fight where I was tanking 1/2 the time I took 25 total melee attacks (mastery+1 geared). in 265 seconds, with 0 haste I could purify 10.6 times. With 0 haste, i could have purified every 2-3 hits I actually took. Because avoidance doesn't happen uniformly, I could have purified every time I took a few hits close together and just let those 1 hit followed by some avoidance staggers ride. With the more realistic 5k or so haste you almost can't avoid, I could have purified almost every time I got hit.
Spoils - tanking the whole time, but most of it hits for very little. I'll grant that 5k or so haste is decently useful assuming they hit much harder on heroic.
Thok - Only tanking 1/2 the time
Seige crafter - Tanking most of the time but far from all. Again the most dangerous damage is magic from the boss. Assuming this hits much harder on heroic, I'll grant this as a ~5k haste is at least somewhat useful.
Paragons - At least on normal, their damage was a complete joke if you did things well. I was looking at logs to see how much healing the 4pc was doing and brms are literally doing the fight with 0 purifies. Last week in a 9 minute fight I used my self-guard 3 times and purified 12 times, each time the raid dropped low for a second from something. I actually took a fair amount of damage from stagger, yet my healing taken shows that the number one legitimate heal cast on my was Regrowth, as the #15 heal on me behind all sorts of passive/smart/self stuff (lots of gotox orbs on that fight). Our tanks combined for taking about 45% of the damage, (which is pretty high for most fights. On thok by comparison our tanks both barely took more damage than our dps and healers) so there's tons of healing to go around as the raid barely gets touched.
Garosh - Hits hard, but again there's huge portions of the fight where you'll be using 0 purifies, though stacking bok is pretty hard during some of those too. Was so laggy (after having almost no issue other fights) that shuffle actually dropped some towards the beginning, but that was more for lack of being able to use a spell more often than every 3 seconds than anything else. In the end I just ran around in circles kiting all the adds, so not really sure too much about how hard he hit then.

So, like I said at the start, being slightly undermined by a math error.

haste, pretty much still bad. Not bad enough to avoid, but unless you are purifying constantly because your healers are really that bad, or you're doing content that is just that hard, you really don't need much. You can keep shuffle up, guard at will and purify quite a bit with 0 haste.

There are a couple fights where up to around 5k haste would let you do a meaningful purify more often. More than 5k is just going to be damage, not damage reduction and there are much better stats for that. Even the first 5k is pretty wasted in the majority of fights where you aren't realistically going to purify more than every 25 seconds because you're only tanking 1/2 the time, and rocking like 60-70% actual avoidance so it takes a while to get a stagger with a meaningful impact on the amount of healing needed to keep you alive.

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Also, don't forget, I'm not pushing people to avoid all haste, use lower ilvl stuff to drop haste, or trade 1000 haste for nothing in return. I'm saying that for the vast majority of fights, more crit or mastery will help you stay alive better than more haste. I myself have 5.6k haste, though I'd actually rather have less and maybe swap a gem or two to get around 5k for a couple fights while we're progressing on them for heroic. What I'm saying is that getting more haste is not the solution to people's problems dying a bunch, hitting your buttons better is.

I am actually a little curious how haste performs compared to crit for damage in light of sustained RJW use. May have to do some math for that, and even not space out and count BoK as costing 1 chi. Would be pretty hard to see it out performing crit though.

[Ampere]

Not sure what's up with the cape, but if you want to solo tank immerseus, it's best to either push him shortly before another breath so you clear during the adds, or chain stun/grip an sha puddle, or heal to not quite full, then life grip a contaminated puddle which will very slowly make it's way towards him, giving you ample time to clear.

Life Grip sounds like a good way to extend that phase. Not too concerned with solo tanking him though, just peeved that the cloak absorb limit seems to be the tank's hp. I thought I could use the cloak to soak massive hits like multiple stack Corrosive Blast or solo soak Malkorok's p2 smash (not sure I'd ever need to do that, but assumed the cloak would let it be possible), but it looks like it won't work. I sent Ghostcrawler a tweet asking if it's intended that the cap is so low. IIRC abilities like Cheat Death/Guardian Spirit/Cauterize will soak 2x max HP which is better than the current Niuzao proc.

[SurrealNight]

The 2p and 4p bonus didn't do a LOT of healing, and the 4p had a 33% overheal rate.

Heh pretty sure I could find a post of my guessing we'd see ~33% overheal. If you don't miss the free PB's from the old 4P I suppose you can consider it a benefit even at 66% effectiveness.

[siccora]

very very dissapointed by the 2 set bonus. hoping for a buff...

[Rumblefist]

Screw the Brewmaster 4p. I'll just get the WW 4p bonus for the times I swap to dps.
This is if I ever get a drop from raiding. We have 3 monks and 4 agility users in a 10m raid group.

[The Madgod]

So if anyone cares, I did an interview with Kaidam (Daught of Midwinter) on his thoughts about SoO.

It's pretty good. Should check it out. You know, when you're not busy.

The link

[Bryce]

#showtooltip Leer of the Ox
/tar Black Ox Statue
/cast Leer of the Ox
/targetlasttarget

Anyone care to tell me what's wrong with this macro? It never actually taunts adds to my statue and I've tried like 50 different macros to do it -__-.

[kaiadam]

Use Leer of the Ox as a taunt.

Right now that macro is telling your ox to taunt itself, Leer is like a completely separate taunt.

[Bryce]

Oh duh -_-.

[archkiller]

Has anyone got Haromm's Talisman? How much % out of total dps does the Multistrike proc provide?

[lairpie]

Has anyone got Haromm's Talisman? How much % out of total dps does the Multistrike proc provide?

There's no ICD or tricky mechanic to it, it does exactly what it says it does unless I'm missing something:

Equip: Your attacks have a (140 / 10)% chance to trigger Multistrike, which deals instant additional damage to your target equal to 33% of the original damage dealt.
so, 140/10 * 33 = 4.62 % (for the 553).

[Vasilisa]

Good morning lads

After last not-so-great week (server lags, queues, etc) we beat 9 bosses. So we had 4 remaining: Thok, Crazy Goblin Engineer, Paragons and Garosh. Could any of those who has already defeated them give some insight/tips for brewmaster for this fights? They'd be appreciated.

Second question is regarding gearing (or rather gemming/reforging). So far I've been running with minimal mastery and maximum crit build. Also I didn't care much for reforging specifically for Roro (which is ilvl 530). Neither (except Dark Shaman) posed real threat to my survival so far. My plan was to keep dps cloak&meta and keep my gearing strategy. Although since I want smooth (relatively quick) progression I'm wondering if I should change my way of thinking.

I planned to keep 7.5% hit, 15% exp (obviously), 6500 haste (not sure if it's not too high), 50% mastery and put the leftover stats into mastery. The question is - how hard (in 10 man) bosses 10+ hit? Should I rethink cloak & meta dilemma? Also - I believe that reforging for Roro would be beneficial. As our best dps from previous tier has left us, my dmg done is a great contribution in our fights. Which proc should I choose - mastery or crit? I'd like to have at least semi-stable survival but I don't want my dps to drastically drop. Thus - would you give any suggestions about desired crit / mastery levels and cloak/meta for bosses 10+ and heroics? (hopefully in near future). Link to my char is in signature.

Also regarding trinkets - I've read some time ago discussion about Thok Tail Tip trinket, though I can't remember the conclusion. Static effect looks really neat but the proc effect is meh for us. Any thoughts regarding that?

Thanks for the answers

[Deleted]

@Vasilisa I switched to tank meta on parangon where i feel myself weak here , keeping dps cape for all encounters . I got less haste ( ~5000 ) but this is what i found good for me , max crit then mastery and it was fine except derping fail from me or other .

Thok be carefull if you tank when the healers are silenced a lot . Goblin his stacking ability hit really hard when you got 3 stacks ( this + add's raid aoe and i die with a cd ) , put the add on the traps for max dps on him . Parangons try to stay focused on what u have to do ( don't look at your raid ) there are a lot of abilitys and i was like " what should i do !? " . Garrosh still alive ( like you said server lags, queues, etc ) ...

This is some tips that come in mind you can't read in strats guides .

http://www.wendigobrewing.com/tip/ usefull tips here !

ps : excuse my english :/

[Crevan]

Something I noticed that I wanted to ask for details about: off tank wanted me to solo tank Immerseus, I said sure. Used Dampen Magic the first two stack of the attack I took, and the second time I figured my Niuzao cloak would cover it. However, it seemed to proc on the killing blow and not save me. I'm assuming there's an absorb limit, possibly max HP. The overkill was 1M, logs are linked below with a snippet shown. Gained the buff, but it didn't seem to absorb anything.


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...7/?s=411&e=658

I've noticed something similar on my dk. While I haven't tested anything yet, my theory right now is that if purgatory wouldn't have saved you, cloak will not help either. Need to dig a little deeper to figure out the actual absorb caps here.