[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Kalcheus]

On a semi-related note, how about cunning pets' cooldown. Is roar still the same or have they removed that as well ? There's one spell we could ask to be changed for something better at least, it feels very lackluster in its current form.

Roar of Recovery is currently gone. Cunning Pets get Roar of Sacrifice, Bullheaded, ummm ... let me check the front page. Ok, Dash, Cornered, and Boar's Speed. It appears all of those are the same as they are in live.

[Cyph3r]

Losing something like CotW may not have any effects on PVE, but when you think about it from PVP perspective, you realize that if they are going to keep damage balanced, then you've just lost a mean of on demand burst in certain scenarios. Arena hunters, who care about min/maxing, typically start out with agi, crit, and CotW and switching to a utility pet.

Now, they may have done this because BM hunters are usually the only ones using ferocity pets in PVP and they have a much better burst now due to shorter TBW cd.

In regards to this whole CotW discussion, let's not forget our new talents either. Between readiness, the entire 75 tier, and possible even the 90 tier as well, we have more incoming dps cooldowns. Losing one (and one that's usually just macro'd in with something else anyway) really isn't that big a deal. I guess I'm just kind of confused by the outcry about it? I know I don't really care about this particular ability, are there really those so in love with it they're sad to see it go? And let me clarify I'm specifically talking about the ability itself, not the fact that it's a dps cooldown, we'll always have those in various forms. I mean do you really think that a button you can push every 3.5 minutes that just makes your numbers a little bigger is really something class defining?

[Renley]

No one cares that your okay with it and that because you of all people are okay with it that we should be too and that its not important to us lol. Stop feeling yourself you don't run this thread or choose what should or should not be discussed. People are speaking about a talent that is no longer there that we would like to see there just like concussive shot was gone and we spoke up and its now back.

Aetiis I see how you can forget about it having it macroed in and all but just cause you forget about it don't mean that an extra 549 agility is not a substantial buff. I can see how that buff would be buffed a lot for the new expansion if they kept it to keep the same percentage buff as well. Would probably be closer to 1500 agility. Im sure they will keep us balanced dps wise though but we will have to see.

First off, I think you are confused. Call of the wild is a 10% AP buff for us and our pet. Roar of Courage is the 549 agility/strength buff. Both of these are gone. Roar of Courage is the cat/spirit beast buff(which WILL be replaced by another buff), while Call of the Wild is the Ferocity buff(which probably won't be replaced). And Chrths point was that if you really care about this talent, the outcry and whatnot should take place on the official forums. Not to mention, discussing its uses in Cata is not what this thread is about.

Why keep saying as long as it all washes out lol? There is nothing that has replaced it yet and today there are hunters that are concerned with this. Clearly this is not something that comprehension has blessed you with. Today there is a buff missing and today us hunters are not happy with it. You may not care but us hunters that care about our class also care about losing buffs. Stop talking like as if it has been replaced by something or balanced already. Your the only one rambling and you sound salty that you have no real response in debate or that anyone agrees with you other than chrth. There is a poll about it already and yet your still pushing your opinion on others as if we need to agree with you about not "Caring" about our class buffs being gone. Not happening...

Nothing needs to replace it. Yes, it is a DPS CD. But it is an uninteresting, non-game changing CD. It's a 'fire and forget' type ability that changes nothing for us. Hunters won't miss the buff if we are blanketed with an overall buff/balanced around the minuscule DPS CD being removed. And honestly? It has been 'replaced' by many more interesting CDs. All hunters can now choose Fervor or Readiness or Murder of Crows or Call Beast or Lynx Rush or any of the level 90 shot CDs. Those are interesting CDs. Not CotW. We all care about the hunter class, but because we have a different opinion about it, doesn't mean we are wrong. It also doesn't mean you are wrong. We are just trying to show you our side and help you understand why its loss will be unnoticed by a LARGE portion of hunters.

Losing something like CotW may not have any effects on PVE, but when you think about it from PVP perspective, you realize that if they are going to keep damage balanced, then you've just lost a mean of on demand burst in certain scenarios. Arena hunters, who care about min/maxing, typically start out with agi, crit, and CotW and switching to a utility pet.

Now, they may have done this because BM hunters are usually the only ones using ferocity pets in PVP and they have a much better burst now due to shorter TBW cd.

Honestly, I don't think it will have much affect on PvP either. Most of the top end hunters in PvP run with 5 monkeys for all of the Roars of Sac and Bad Manners.

because using cotw during hero is a bigger dps boost than just using it with rapid fire as the haste effect will last the entire duration of cotw start of the fight prepot pre cotw pet swap and rapid fire and you will have another cotw+pot up for bloodlust hero of course this is fight dependent ...........

You have a point. However, I do not think(I could be wrong though) most top raiding hunters do this. Maybe when working on progression or something. *shrugs* This could be the reason why Blizzard is also removing it. They maybe didn't want hunters relying on pet swapping to compete/be the best damage, ya know? And honestly, I'm all for it. I don't think we should have to pet swap either for that reason. Pet swapping for utility purposes or ghetto tanking on the spot is fine though!

---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 05:46 PM ----------

In regards to this whole CotW discussion, let's not forget our new talents either. Between readiness, the entire 75 tier, and possible even the 90 tier as well, we have more incoming dps cooldowns. Losing one (and one that's usually just macro'd in with something else anyway) really isn't that big a deal. I guess I'm just kind of confused by the outcry about it? I know I don't really care about this particular ability, are there really those so in love with it they're sad to see it go? And let me clarify I'm specifically talking about the ability itself, not the fact that it's a dps cooldown, we'll always have those in various forms. I mean do you really think that a button you can push every 3.5 minutes that just makes your numbers a little bigger is really something class defining?

Very well said. Pretty much what I've been trying to say. It's not something that most hunters will miss because its something that just doesn't affect our gameplay as much as a cooldown should.

[Borega]

We're still tweaking focus regen. It does feel a little slow right now.

LOL ...

[Lucky_Lucciano]

Im going to assume for those that don't feel the use Cotw being important you don't pvp much. I will leave it at that cause no matter how much some care about it and others wont miss it if you were a hardcore pvper you wouldn't be pro nerf on anything as bad as our class is for pvp now. Pve we have always been good aside from the end game raiding due to our class not scaling well with gear. That is fixed in mop or what they have done is said to be the solution but pvp our class is in terrible shape. If you don't pvp and don't do both with our class It would be best to ask how buffs effect certain areas of the game before they are thrown out of the window.

Its not an uneducated guess to assume those who have expressed how they don't care for it only pve either due to there explanations of how they use it in boss fights... Tell a pvper that they are losing another part of their burst when that is the only strong suit our class brings to pvp and Im sure you will get an upset hunter.

[Arrowset]

With Ghostcrawler saying piercing shots and mm mastery won't break cc in MoP I'll very likely be switching to it from bm. That's always been my issue with MM pvp, and the 10% heal with chimera shot is too good to pass up.

[Renley]

Im going to assume for those that don't feel the use Cotw being important you don't pvp much. I will leave it at that cause no matter how much some care about it and others wont miss it if you were a hardcore pvper you wouldn't be pro nerf on anything as bad as our class is for pvp now. Pve we have always been good aside from the end game raiding due to our class not scaling well with gear. That is fixed in mop or what they have done is said to be the solution but pvp our class is in terrible shape. If you don't pvp and don't do both with our class It would be best to ask how buffs effect certain areas of the game before they are thrown out of the window.

Its not an uneducated guess to assume those who have expressed how they don't care for it only pve either due to there explanations of how they use it in boss fights... Tell a pvper that they are losing another part of their burst when that is the only strong suit our class brings to pvp and Im sure you will get an upset hunter.

But most(if not all) top end hunters in both Arena and RBGs don't use ferocity pets. Most hunters in the top bracket PvP as MM. And they use monkeys. 5 monkeys. 5 Roars of Sac, 5 Bad Manners, etc. Call of the Wild isn't even used. I mean, I guess a small percentage of BM PvP hunters would be using it, but thats a small minority. Not to mention, removing CotW will hardly affect BM in PvP in MoP, especially with all the buffs/changes it had recieved. As a BM hunter on MoP right now, I can tell you, CotW is not needed. BM(and hunters in general) are doing very well in PvP. You have to remember, when we're talking about losing CotW, we're talking in terms of MoP, not Cata. Sure, losing it now would be a bummer and flat out nerf, but when in regards to MoP(both PvP and PvE), its nothing more than an inconsequential change for the better of our class.

[Hunterpower]

With Ghostcrawler saying piercing shots and mm mastery won't break cc in MoP I'll very likely be switching to it from bm. That's always been my issue with MM pvp, and the 10% heal with chimera shot is too good to pass up.

Well, i'm not sure i will be pvping with my hunter if they keep dodging in, when our main shot, focus regen shot, and cc can be dodged by every rogue feral enh shaman and monk.

[eschatological]

Im going to assume for those that don't feel the use Cotw being important you don't pvp much. I will leave it at that cause no matter how much some care about it and others wont miss it if you were a hardcore pvper you wouldn't be pro nerf on anything as bad as our class is for pvp now. Pve we have always been good aside from the end game raiding due to our class not scaling well with gear. That is fixed in mop or what they have done is said to be the solution but pvp our class is in terrible shape. If you don't pvp and don't do both with our class It would be best to ask how buffs effect certain areas of the game before they are thrown out of the window.

Its not an uneducated guess to assume those who have expressed how they don't care for it only pve either due to there explanations of how they use it in boss fights... Tell a pvper that they are losing another part of their burst when that is the only strong suit our class brings to pvp and Im sure you will get an upset hunter.

I'm 8/8H, I'm pretty hardcore. I also understand that "washing out in the end" doesn't necessarily mean that we get something to replace CotW (even though we're getting multiple DPS CDs in MoP), but that damage is compensated for and/or other classes are at the same levels.

As for pre-CotW in arena, I find that somewhat humorous a suggestion, as getting burst in a hunter team in the first 20 seconds of a match is comically unlikely except maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe in junglecleave. And if you're suggesting switching to a ferocity pet mid-arena to set up your burst...well, that's pretty funny too, imo.

[Lucky_Lucciano]

BM pvp use it all the time and is a huge burst add, as well as triple dps MM teams run with it all the time for the added cat agility buff as well as Cotw as currently is as viable as Juncle Thug or Phdk right now. I never suggested anything about switching to that pet mid arena either maybe you should brush up on your comprehension skills. I think that was your advice to me last night. Funny how good advice maybe in movement full circle already.

Burst is good in all working hunter comps even in phdk when its used a good half minute into the round instead of immediately. The fact that you stated you are 8/8H means nothing to your pvp knowledge.

No Aettis hunters do not run with 5 monkey. Hunter pre buff arena matches with wolfs and cats as well as like to often keep a dismantle pet (Scorpion) depending the comps they run with. I do both Pve and Pvp and I can understand how a non pvper can make assumptions or even neglect the fact that some abilities are more useful or useless in pvp as apposed to pve...

[Renley]

BM pvp use it all the time and is a huge burst add, as well as triple dps MM teams run with it all the time for the added cat agility buff as well as Cotw as currently is as viable as Juncle Thug or Phdk right now. I never suggested anything about switching to that pet mid arena either maybe you should brush up on your comprehension skills. I think that was your advice to me last night. Funny how good advice maybe in movement full circle already.

Burst is good in all working hunter comps even in phdk when its used a good half minute into the round instead of immediately. The fact that you stated you are 8/8H means nothing to your pvp knowledge.

No Aettis hunters do not run with 5 monkey. Hunter pre buff arena matches with wolfs and cats as well as like to often keep a dismantle pet (Scorpion) depending the comps they run with. I do both Pve and Pvp and I can understand how a non pvper can make assumptions or even neglect the fact that some abilities are more useful or useless in pvp as apposed to pve...

1) Don't assume I don't PvP. I do. I follow a lot of PvP. I read all about PvP. I PvP. I know my class, trust me.
2) MM hunters DO run with multiple monkeys, upwards of 5. Sure, they may not all use 5 monkeys, but a majority use several monkeys. The monkey CC is too valuable to pass up.
3) I never said CotW was useless. All I said was that its effects are not that gamebreaking. Its not a huge burst CD. Its not a rotation changing CD. Its just a blah CD every 5 minutes for 20 seconds. 10% AP in PvP gear is what...1600-1800? Yeah, thats good! But its not great.

Regardless of our thoughts on CotW in Cataclysm, this thread is for Mists. We need to discuss Mists changes and their effects in the BETA here. Please.

[Lucky_Lucciano]

That's exactly what were doing if you are reading. We are talking about Beta Mop changes. Again no matter how much you say you read about pvp or you say you know your class I say again NO hunter(S) do not run 5 monkeys.

[Kissthebaby]

What? Why wouldn't you time 2 DPS cooldowns together(besides 2x haste/attack speed cooldowns)? That's like saying you don't use a Potion of the Tol'Vir during Hero/lust. Both Rapid Fire and Call of the Wild are 5 minute CDs. Having it on auto-fire would be 'bad'. But even then the difference isn't that huge. But it should always be macro'd into Rapid Fire.

First off haste is awful for survival right now let alone with 2 piece. You don't use CoW with rapid fire because u use it when u have all ur agility procs are up like say tol vir ,pole arm ,and engin gloves. So at the start of a fight for example, you dont rapidfire at the start ( if u do u shouldnt ). you wait , you wait untill 4 piece has proced and ended. If you wait to Cow till after this you will lose all the extra ap from the tol vir potion etc. Also you dont save your next tol vir for bloodlust like u stated. you wait for agil procs or when CoW is up again. Thanks

[Lucky_Lucciano]

First off haste is awful for survival right now let alone with 2 piece. You don't use CoW with rapid fire because u use it when u have all ur agility procs are up like say tol vir ,pole arm ,and engin gloves. So at the start of a fight for example, you dont rapidfire at the start ( if u do u shouldnt ). you wait , you wait untill 4 piece has proced and ended. If you wait to Cow till after this you will lose all the extra ap from the tol vir potion etc. Also you dont save your next tol vir for bloodlust like u stated. you wait for agil procs or when CoW is up again. Thanks

Very well said

[Renley]

First off haste is awful for survival right now let alone with 2 piece. You don't use CoW with rapid fire because u use it when u have all ur agility procs are up like say tol vir ,pole arm ,and engin gloves. So at the start of a fight for example, you dont rapidfire at the start ( if u do u shouldnt ). you wait , you wait untill 4 piece has proced and ended. If you wait to Cow till after this you will lose all the extra ap from the tol vir potion etc. Also you dont save your next tol vir for bloodlust like u stated. you wait for agil procs or when CoW is up again. Thanks

You do use it with Rapid Fire because you use Rapid Fire when you have all of your agility procs and whatnot, like you said. xP

But as I said, MoP stuff here guys, not current rotation discussions.

[eschatological]

BM pvp use it all the time and is a huge burst add, as well as triple dps MM teams run with it all the time for the added cat agility buff as well as Cotw as currently is as viable as Juncle Thug or Phdk right now. I never suggested anything about switching to that pet mid arena either maybe you should brush up on your comprehension skills. I think that was your advice to me last night. Funny how good advice maybe in movement full circle already.

Burst is good in all working hunter comps even in phdk when its used a good half minute into the round instead of immediately. The fact that you stated you are 8/8H means nothing to your pvp knowledge.

No Aettis hunters do not run with 5 monkey. Hunter pre buff arena matches with wolfs and cats as well as like to often keep a dismantle pet (Scorpion) depending the comps they run with. I do both Pve and Pvp and I can understand how a non pvper can make assumptions or even neglect the fact that some abilities are more useful or useless in pvp as apposed to pve...

BM isn't end-game arena, and most triple DPS would run at least one warrior or DK, negating the need for cat. Even if your warrior is commanding shout, a roar of courage for, what, 45 seconds, isn't the best. Not to mention triple DPS (short of ret pally offhealing) is not very viable in upper brackets.

So, btw, you run in with a ferocity pet even in PHD, wait half a minute before you CotW, and then, I assume, another 20 seconds while you burst, and a minute in your switching to a monkey? Pre-wolf buff lasts 30 seconds, but you said you don't even pop CotW til 30 seconds in anyways. Please. I find your knowledge of "PvP hunter'ing" to be questionable at best. You're trying to justify why this CotW nerf is the end of the world, but really, you're coming off as one of those hunters who needlessly bitch about anything taken away from hunters, which gives the hunter community quite a poor name.

[Lucky_Lucciano]

BM isn't end-game arena, and most triple DPS would run at least one warrior or DK, negating the need for cat. Even if your warrior is commanding shout, a roar of courage for, what, 45 seconds, isn't the best. Not to mention triple DPS (short of ret pally offhealing) is not very viable in upper brackets.

So, btw, you run in with a ferocity pet even in PHD, wait half a minute before you CotW, and then, I assume, another 20 seconds while you burst, and a minute in your switching to a monkey? Pre-wolf buff lasts 30 seconds, but you said you don't even pop CotW til 30 seconds in anyways. Please. I find your knowledge of "PvP hunter'ing" to be questionable at best. You're trying to justify why this CotW nerf is the end of the world, but really, you're coming off as one of those hunters who needlessly bitch about anything taken away from hunters, which gives the hunter community quite a poor name.

Tripple dps Rogue Ret Hunter... Take your time... Its very viable in upper ratings maybe you should check the ladders. I never said anything about it being the end of the world scrub I just said I don't want it gone lol. Stop trying to blow my posts up to more than what they are just because you can't read properly. You can check my highest rating over the seasons and then we can check yours for both arena and rbgs and then we can discuss who has the better pvp knowledge. Till you stop trying to call me out on mine and show yours stop trying to stir me up cause I just think its amusing lol.


Before you say silly shit like I give the hunter community a bad name how about you go to the real feeback forums here http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8328459?page=1

That's my thread and the thread that Ghostcrawler (A dev that actually plays the class) responded to our class concerns in and posted as a sticky in the forums as well as mmochamp for the day, so I must not be giving us too bad of a name. Lol... I love our class and do my best to help the devs with feedback where it matters I just post here because "for the most part" I like reading the opinions of other hunters and it seems more active.

If anyone wants their opinion to be seen by the devs or a better chance of it to be read swing over to the official feedback forums @ http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/4629801/ but you need to be logged into battle.net and have your beta to post...

[Kissthebaby]

You do use it with Rapid Fire because you use Rapid Fire when you have all of your agility procs and whatnot, like you said. xP

But as I said, MoP stuff here guys, not current rotation discussions.

Still wrong lol. You dont just blow rapid fire when all agil procs are up. im done trying to convince you. I don't really care about CotW anyway im sure blizz will even it out, was just trying to saw that it is useful and not just a cd we "macro". It will hurt not having it for BM, even tho they buffed rabid. the stupid thing is rabid has a 100 sec cd while beastial wrath is only a min. BM will be the best spec come 5.0 or mm. seems they need to fix pets a bunch tho and some of the new moves. Also dono if anyone else has talked about this but focus fire has a global cooldown now, so you cant macro it into cobra shot anymore . I think the new focus fire is awful wish they would revert it.

[Renley]

Still wrong lol. You dont just blow rapid fire when all agil procs are up. im done trying to convince you. I don't really care about CotW anyway im sure blizz will even it out, was just trying to saw that it is useful and not just a cd we "macro". It will hurt not having it for BM, even tho they buffed rabid. the stupid thing is rabid has a 100 sec cd while beastial wrath is only a min. BM will be the best spec come 5.0 or mm. seems they need to fix pets a bunch tho and some of the new moves. Also dono if anyone else has talked about this but focus fire has a global cooldown now, so you cant macro it into cobra shot anymore . I think the new focus fire is awful wish they would revert it.

The new Focus Fire is much better than live Focus Fire. It's our own personal Hero/Lust now, a HUGE haste buff. I'm guessing thats why its on the GCD now.

Edit: Also, then when it the best time to use Rapid Fire, if not when we have all of our agility/attackpower/crit/etc buffs on? That is exactly when it would gain the most benefit. More Cobra Shots, more autoshots. More focus. More damage buffs for those cobra shots, autoshots, and focus consuming shots.

[Kissthebaby]

The new Focus Fire is much better than live Focus Fire. It's our own personal Hero/Lust now, a HUGE haste buff. I'm guessing thats why its on the GCD now.

Edit: Also, then when it the best time to use Rapid Fire, if not when we have all of our agility/attackpower/crit/etc buffs on? That is exactly when it would gain the most benefit. More Cobra Shots, more autoshots. More focus. More damage buffs for those cobra shots, autoshots, and focus consuming shots.

Best time to use rapidfire is after 4 set and after cds like for example as survival. i try to time it with my engin gloves but u never want to stack haste cds, you also dont want to delay rapid fire alot unless the fight last shorter then 5 mins, then yeah u would wait till more agil procs. For example on h ultrax my guild lust at the start so i wait to use rapidfire till after the first twilight erruption, but i use CotW at the start when i have my preoit and such. You also didnt menton that CotW is amazing for fights like h hagara and spine becuz u can summon multiple pets which means more CotW's. About focus fire, no the new focus fire sucks. It doesnt fix it and it sucks cuz it takes so long to proc ( very random ). id rather have 15 percent haste all the time or mostly all the time as it is now in live.