[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Renley]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but it is hunter-related and it could be information I suppose..have you came across any new rares that can be tamed?

Not yet, no rares. Pets are now just becoming tameable.

The problem with ExpT applying a DoT on application is that for multiple targets, that sucks if one triggers and the rest of the pack is not yet in range. You'd not be able to pre-trap, and would probably end up trapping later, which would delay LnL procs as well. Plus, how do you treat targets which enter the trap after the initial explosion? Do they get the full duration dot? Obviously that would be silly, but so would if they get no dot. The only viable solution would be to get a DoT based on how much time was left on the trap, and well, that gets buggy quick. What if someone leaves the trap, and re-enters? Do they get a second DoT? Does the weaker DoT just not get applied?

It's a programming nightmare, imo.

Its actually pretty simple. DoT is applied to all targets in 5-8yd range upon trap tigger. Trap explodes, deals direct damage, applies DoT. There is no ground part. You do bring up a good point with the pre-trapping(as thats the point of a trap). I couldn't see it being a hybrid between current ExT and my idea though, would have to be either ground AoE or multi-DoT AoE. I wouldn't be concerned with LnL proccing later, as on live, in AoE situations, most SV hunters dont use ExT until all mobs are in one location(and this usually doesn't take too long). I'd imagine with Shadow Trap, it would work the same. Normal AoE/single target until tank has mobs together, launch Shadow Trap, trap is triggered and DoT spreads, profit.

[eschatological]

Then traps aren't a method for control then - you pop it every 24 seconds, it explodes on trigger, applies the DoT once, and that's it?

That's a weak design, imo. Let alone for PvP, which is what you're trying to make it function for (for SV PvP in particular), I'm assuming this DoT would be dispellable (an undispellable high DPET DoT that triggers our highest damage nuke would never happen), would be dispelled, and then the person can run back where the trap was and have no DoT reapplied? The ticking ground effect being lost will also make ExpT lose its functionality as flag protection in AB/TP kind of BGs, etc.

[Renley]

Then traps aren't a method for control then - you pop it every 24 seconds, it explodes on trigger, applies the DoT once, and that's it?

That's a weak design, imo. Let alone for PvP, which is what you're trying to make it function for (for SV PvP in particular), I'm assuming this DoT would be dispellable (an undispellable high DPET DoT that triggers our highest damage nuke would never happen), would be dispelled, and then the person can run back where the trap was and have no DoT reapplied? The ticking ground effect being lost will also make ExpT lose its functionality as flag protection in AB/TP kind of BGs, etc.

Explosive Trap is like that right now in PvE. See Yorsahj. Adds spawn, drop trap, AoE, drop trap, AoE. Same for any AoE fight. It just becomes another spell to use. For PvP though, I see the consequences. The DoT being dispelled is already a problem for SV(Black Arrow). This isn't meant to solve that issue. The issue for PvP as SV on beta right now is the Explosve Trap glyph which causes a knockback. Many hunters see this is a necessary glyph for PvP, and if said hunter is SV, it causes a big problem with LnL(ExT being linked to BA and such). Not only will you be using ExT instead of BA, but ExT will knockback targets out of the fire, so its a double loss. But the knockback is huuuuuge and very very good. While my idea may have some problems, it solves many.

"1)Black Arrow and Shadow Trap can be justifiably linked, both dealing Shadow damage over time(one for single target, one for AOE).
2)Explosive Trap glyph(deemed amazing and near mandatory for PvP) will be able to synergize with SV, as opposed to how it is now in beta, causing SV to suffer.
3)SV(and MM/BM if DoT mechanic applied to Explosive Trap as well) will not suffer from AoE packs moving off of Explosive/Shadow Traps explosion area.
4)Explosive Trap will not be able to be overridden by other hunters
5)Shadow Trap keeps the AoE feel/idea from the first beta Black Arrow, while upgrading it/fixing some of its problems(linear AoE as opposed to radial AoE)"

Maybe there could be some sort of mechanic that causes the Shadow Trap to pulse every 3 or so seconds, applying the DoT(which could have a short duration, say 6 or 9 seconds). Not sure how that would work from a programming perspective, but that could solve the dispell issue(for the trap, not BA) and the flag protection issue(more or less).

Edit: Posted some of this on beta forums.

"It was brought up that the Shadow Trap idea does have some downsides, such as flag protection(current Explosive Trap), players running out of Shadow Trap to get dispelled, then running back in with no consequence, etc.

Adding to the design would be that once Shadow Trap is triggered, it pulses every 3 to 5 seconds, applying the DoT. Due to the pulsing nature of the trap, DoT duration would be low, such as 6 to 9 seconds. Allows for consistent uptime, without causing it to be too powerful/last too long. Can still be used for the same things Explosive Trap is used for now(such as the flag protection) and solves one of the dispelling issues in PvP.

On the dispelling part though, an idea brought up in my other thread was for it to trigger either Lock and Load, or a bulked up Lock and Load(deals 10-20% extra damage maybe?). While it may not deter Black Arrow/Shadow Trap from being dispelled, it will allow SV hunters to not be neutered from a simple dispell. This affect could be on the same ICD as regular Lock and Load so that a healer mass dispelling Shadow Trap would not causes a blitz of Explosive Shots."

[Atlanis]

That's a great point. Really, all survival needs is a Holy attack and they're set.

lol! Well played!

[bil]

Indeed:

knocking people AWAY from your Explosive trap means you'll get next to none pocs of LnL from that trap.
Not unless you can force them to move into it again, which they can easily avoid.

I didn't like the 'new' BA design, but when reverting this, they should have considered more than the 'aoe or single target' utility of pve.
In pvp the linking of BA to fire traps has meant for all this time that Survival, as the so called trap orientated specc, de facto had no use for Explosive trap.

There could be a workaround for this actually:

If Explosive trap put DOT's on targets, instead of the ground, like a multi Black Arrow, than both in pvp and pve the linking would be justified.
In pvp people would use the trap version for the glyphed knockback, but even than they would have the choice.
In pve it would merely depend on the number of targets. Not to mention it would help with moving packs of course.

I don't think Bliz is done with the design of BA. They probably reverted it because that was the fastest way to get most of the behavior out of the ability that they wanted. It'll probably be another patch or two before things gel but I hope to see explosive trap not proc LnL and BA taken off of trap mastery and its CD reduced on it's own (no reason to link it to traps anymore). Here's hoping they add improved serpent sting or at least the up front damage part back as well.

On another note, I wouldn't mind if the Explosive Trap glyph actually took away the pulsing damage and the trap was just consumed when it exploded. If you're using the glyph you probably don't care about the damage component and getting rid of the pulse damage would solve some problems with not being able to cc while the trap was active.

[zhinju]

Concussive shot was put back in

[Gotjuice]

I have one question and need someone on Beta to test this out plz. On live when you FD and drop combat you can't instantly camo you have to wait like 5 seconds then you can camo. Is it still the same on Beta?

[Schwebels]

I have one question and need someone on Beta to test this out plz. On live when you FD and drop combat you can't instantly camo you have to wait like 5 seconds then you can camo. Is it still the same on Beta?

im unsure atm, unable to get on cause im in school, but i do know that you're able to use camo in combat for 6 seconds, so that might help you with your question

[Jaydenkor]

No, hes asking about the dropping combat issue where it takes forever to drop, or the camo stuck bug.

@Gotjuice - generally I find this is a pet issue, where I have a macro /petpassive /petfollow hit macro, FD and almost always is instant combat drop. Traps (explosive/frost) will screw with this and put you BACK in combat very quickly.

I do however also know about which you speak.. the.. Your not in combat, your pet isnt in combat, the camo button is lit up.. but you are prevented from pushing it... Im not able to log into the beta without crit erroring out in 3 seconds so I cannot test this for you .. but nor am I exactly sure how to *force* the issue to begin with.. to see if beta has it fixed.

[Renley]

I can't check as well. This latest maintenance made the crashing error even worse. Can barely load before I crash now.

[Yekul]

For PvP though, I see the consequences. The DoT being dispelled is already a problem for SV(Black Arrow).

Keep in mind things are very different on the beta, healers can't simply spam dispels like they can now. That alone would make survival very viable to play in arena type situations. Healers will be holding dispels for either defensive or offensive CCs most likely.

[Frostinferno]

I have one question and need someone on Beta to test this out plz. On live when you FD and drop combat you can't instantly camo you have to wait like 5 seconds then you can camo. Is it still the same on Beta?

I just tested it on three different mobs (the beta crashing is REALLY bad right now), and it is working instantly and giving the full one minute duration of the buff.

Also, did anyone else notice that our arrows now longer have that white stream graphic? We just shoot off a big ol' arrow now, nothing fancy. Don't know if it's a bug or not, but it looks interesting.

[Deleted]

Concussive shot was put back in

can I have this confirmed.

[Renley]

can I have this confirmed.

Its been confirmed quite a few times here. It's back and the Arcane Shot glyph is gone.

---------- Post added 2012-04-27 at 01:23 AM ----------

Just noticed I forgot to remove the removal of concussive shot on front page, my bad!

[aarjun]

can I have this confirmed.

Confirmed. Arcane glyph is removed and Concussive glyph is not put back in.

[Gotjuice]

I just tested it on three different mobs (the beta crashing is REALLY bad right now), and it is working instantly and giving the full one minute duration of the buff.

That is actually awesome with the change we'll have a ghetto vanish!

[aarjun]

I just tested it on three different mobs (the beta crashing is REALLY bad right now), and it is working instantly and giving the full one minute duration of the buff.

I assume you didn't have any of your dots on the targets. I tested with SrS and BA running on my target and it did work instantly (+ recalled my pet), however, it only lasted 6 sec as the tooltip says. The ticking damage from SrS and BA during Camo didn't break the stealth either.

[Frostinferno]

I assume you didn't have any of your dots on the targets. I tested with SrS and BA running on my target and it did work instantly (+ recalled my pet), however, it only lasted 6 sec as the tooltip says. The ticking damage from SrS and BA during Camo didn't break the stealth either.

I had no dots, no. I would assume the Camo didn't break for you from your damage since you used the in-combat version of the spell.

Edit: Just tried on a dummy with Serpent Sting up on it and can confirm that you do only get the six second version.

[eschatological]

So, what's with this beta build constantly crashing? Can't go more than 3 minutes without a critical error.

Edit: Also, since the CS/AiS buffs on the beta, I've been 2-3 shotting quest mobs with an AiS opener followed immediately by CS. It's pretty ridiculous. Of course, I guess having full H-DS gear in an area aimed at 372ish ilvl helps.

[Renley]

Update:
-updated Lynx Rush, Exotic Beasts(Beast Mastery), and Beast Cleave