[MoP] Symbiosis

[asharia]

so you do 100 extra damage every 3 minutes?

woah, wait.. when did they buff wolves?

[Shifthappens]

100 extra dmg? really? last time i used symbiosis on shaman wolves did about 3k a hit and 6k crits for 30 sec, that was 1 or so month ago, same was for Treants.

[aggixx]

100 extra dmg? really? last time i used symbiosis on shaman wolves did about 3k a hit and 6k crits for 30 sec, that was 1 or so month ago, same was for Treants.

Afaik Images and Wolves have hit for nothing for the entirety of beta.

[Deleted]

100 extra dmg? really? last time i used symbiosis on shaman wolves did about 3k a hit and 6k crits for 30 sec, that was 1 or so month ago, same was for Treants.

I haven't tested it recently, but I can 100% guarantee you that if 1 of the symbiosis options does a lot of damage and the other 9 don't, you can expect a fix pretty quickly. Symbiosis is supposed to be a choice, and if 1 option is way ahead of the other ones there's no choice involved. As well as feral dps then being balanced around having a shaman to symbiosize, and anytime you'll be forced to symbiosize a tank for extra defensive cooldowns you won't be in the top10 dps (similar to the shadowpriest+dark intent situation a while ago).

[Nathanyel]

Just to point out, Shifthappens was talking about the damage of the shaman's wolves - which is not changed of course (except by scaling to 90) but the druid version of wolves/mirrors via Symbiosis does not do a large amount of damage unlike the original. Also no pet bar for skills, could only observe Spirit Hunt (heal) and Spirit Bite (attack that does less damage than an autohit)

[Venteus]

Oh so they don't do that incredibly annoying stun that the shaman ones do on live?

I'm happy, but I do play boomkin ;X

[Elunedra]

It seems the latest tool tip of the Rouge Growl says it lasts 30 seconds? this could be verry powerfull in pvp,

[Deleted]

I really wish Blizzard made the symbiosis less utility more role oriented for the Druid. Symbiosis is our level 87 ability! It's supposed to be a cool freaking ability we get! Instead we get things like Feign Death, resto getting evasion instead of guardians, ice trap, intervene (I'm sure balance druids will enjoy getting one shot by bosses with that one), misdirection. Whoopdie fucking doo.

Symbiosis don't need to give a big selection of different dps cooldowns, because dps is always the same thing. You just need a DPS CD you can insert somewhere in your rotation and you're set, any variety in those spells would be purely cosmetic. Plus it doesn't really matter whether or not you dominate the dps chart as long as you do sufficient dps. You're not actually in a competition with other DPSers.

In a pve raid everyone is clumped together anyway so even if only say two classes give you a dps spell, you can pick any member of those classes in your raid to cast symbiosis on and you're set.

In pvp on the other hand, everyone is spread across all the various objectives in the BG, so you need to be able to pick a useful pvp ability from almost any other player that you happen to have around you. Otherwise, our level 87 ability would be nearly useless in pvp. In PvE you are almost guaranteed to have someone in your raid to pick a dps CD from.

[Juvencus]

In pvp on the other hand, everyone is spread across all the various objectives in the BG, so you need to be able to pick a useful pvp ability from almost any other player that you happen to have around you. Otherwise, our level 87 ability would be nearly useless in pvp. In PvE you are almost guaranteed to have someone in your raid to pick a dps CD from.

Symbiosis once cast on a player it persists through Death and has unlimited range with the exceptions of zoning in or out of an Instance or changing continent (anything with a loading screen really)
PvP even if you release you are still on the instance so it will never drop if you manage to cast it on your preferred player in the beginning.

[Deleted]

Symbiosis once cast on a player it persists through Death and has unlimited range with the exceptions of zoning in or out of an Instance or changing continent (anything with a loading screen really)
PvP even if you release you are still on the instance so it will never drop if you manage to cast it on your preferred player in the beginning.

If that's how it is intended to work then it's great, but the tooltip does say "Effect cancelled if Druid and target become too far apart."
So either they just didn't get to implementing that part yet or the tooltip is outdated.

[Juvencus]

If that's how it is intended to work then it's great, but the tooltip does say "Effect cancelled if Druid and target become too far apart."
So either they just didn't get to implementing that part yet or the tooltip is outdated.

It was explained in a Blue post. Only zoning will remove it, plus if some one releases spirit while you are still fighting in a raid, since the spirit will have to pass a loading screen.

[Deleted]

It was explained in a Blue post. Only zoning will remove it, plus if some one releases spirit while you are still fighting in a raid, since the spirit will have to pass a loading screen.

Ok, then that's pretty cool. I was a bit worried that I'd have to recast it during BGs if whoever I picked in the first place didn't go to the same place as me.

[Koohii]

Shamans get boned as usual as far as what they get from druids. Solar beam for both damage specs? Do we really need two interrupts? Why the hell Prowl to resto shamans? I don't see the use for it in any scenario at all, pvp or pve. Let me try to get out of combat so I can go sneak around while my teammates die. >.>

But yea, what sane druid is going to waste symbiosis on a shaman? For Spirit Walkers? Even though they are a primary HoT healer? Lightning shield for a tank? Ferals get...ferals, that do next to nothing in damage. And Balance gets...purge, something that shamans should be already doing in pvp or that mages do better.

Damn, what did we do to the devs to get so boned on a cool spell? They still mad about the whole bus shock incident?

Ah well, at least monks and druids look like a nice combo in pvp. Bear Hug with fortify brew will be a cool ability for Windwalkers in PvP. And druids get some nice abilities from the monk. Glad i'm re-rolling.

[Tyrean]

Rogue/RSham/Druid. Triple stealth not useful to open? Giving your healer more mana/GCDs by not having to purge not useful? Stealth drinks for your Rsham not useful? What game are you playing right now?

[Malgru]

Rogue/RSham/Druid. Triple stealth not useful to open? Giving your healer more mana/GCDs by not having to purge not useful? Stealth drinks for your Rsham not useful? What game are you playing right now?

Don't forget junglecleave. Hunters can get actual stealth with camo now.

[Abysal]

For PVE right now I'm thinking:

Guardians should put on other tank>HPaly>DPS Shamans>DPS DKs>Windwalker Monks>Shadow Priests>Everyone else
Feral on Blood DKs> Prot Warrior> DPS Shamans>Locks>Rogues>Prot Paly/Brewmaster>HPaly>Shadow Priests>Everyone else
Balance on Mage for self only/Tanks>HPaly>DPS Shamans>Mage>DPS DKs>Shadow Priests>Everyone else
Restoration on Prot Paly>HPaly>DPS Shamans>Blood DK/Brewmaster>Prot Warrior>Shadow Priest>Ret Paly>Hunter>Rogue>Everyone else

Based on what benefits both druid and target> what benefits the group>what benefits anyone at all.

Ultimately, I feel like in a raiding environment, putting Symbiosis on a tank will be mandatory for all druids. Having an extra survival cooldown is pretty significant. The only exception would be if your group needed the extra battle rez and had a HPaly. Blizz needs to make Symbiosis far more appealing to DPS and a little better for healers.

[apepi]

I stopped playing after cata but looking at this spell almost makes me want to come back. It seems blizzard is making up for lost times.

Another thing I like about this spell is it promotes activity between between players, I mean if you want to use this spell while farming or questing(although you have to get to 90 to use it) you have to have another player to put it on. I can just imagine people asking in general for someone to put it on them....You can use this spell in so many different ways, will be interesting to see how they will use it.

[Dendrek]

Restoration on Prot Paly>HPaly>DPS Shamans>Blood DK/Brewmaster>Prot Warrior>Shadow Priest>Ret Paly>Hunter>Rogue>Everyone else

Really? You think Cleanse will be useful? The last three in that list should be Prot Pally > Holy Pally > Prot Warrior. (That is, as far as the druid's benefit is concerned)

Granted, I agree that the tank specs get something big from Symbiosis. Unfortunately the Resto druid gets utter crap from those two particular tanks.

[Edit] For me, as a Resto Druid...
The tentative order I'd go with for personal benefit would be
Movement-heavy fights: Shaman > Priest > Warlock
Damage-heavy fights: Monk > Hunter > Mage > Deathknight > Rogue
Dispel-heavy fights: Paladin
Add-heavy fights: I might consider Warrior. (I'd be more likely to consider the "Damage-heavy fights" list, though.)

The tentative order I'd go for the receiver's benefit would be (with special emphasis on the fight's strat and gimmicks possibly changing this order)
Brewmaster Monk > Prot Paladin > Prot Warrior > Blood DK > Dps DK > Hunter/Warlock > Everyone else

Basically, if there's a tanking monk in the raid, he'd end up being the first on my list for all non-gimick fights.

[aggixx]

I stopped playing after cata but looking at this spell almost makes me want to come back. It seems blizzard is making up for lost times.

Another thing I like about this spell is it promotes activity between between players, I mean if you want to use this spell while farming or questing(although you have to get to 90 to use it) you have to have another player to put it on. I can just imagine people asking in general for someone to put it on them....You can use this spell in so many different ways, will be interesting to see how they will use it.

It's 87, and despite the tooltip not saying it it only works on party/raid members. Although you could group with some person from general I guess, I don't know why you'd bother though.

[iPluto]

I was liking Symbiosis until i read it was a 6sec cast. That pretty much renders it useless for me. Some are really handy in raid situations like the ones that increase longevity. I don't see myself standing still and casting for 6 seconds in pvp/arena/bg without getting an interrupt and even if i did get it off i don't think it would help me in anyway that i couldn't of helped myself in that six seconds.

In terms of questing its useless since it requires someone else to be present - maybe if you had a friend but i doubt everyone has a friend for everytime they quest. Now i think about it i would prefer a 87 spell i could make use in every situation. Honestly i don't see this going live.

This would be better if it was more fun spells we received like levitate from mages, shadowstep from rogues etc but with a short cast.

Im sure this is not all set in stone but ill i hope it does change.