mop beta -missing the first MS-arm pvp.

[meathead]

say in pvp you miss the opening MS,charge is on cd and you have no rage.how do we attack "auto swing lol for 6 secs?we no longer get rage from damage taken correct?b-rage no longer gives rage.so what is the new rotation?heroic costs what 30 rage?slam costs 30 rage.

charge,hamstring,then MS,CS,OP "maybe more then one"-then slam/heroic, then repeat.is this the rotation on beta "pvp"?as i stated above,if we miss the opening MS,how do we attack or gain rage?just auto swings?

[Deleted]

How did u play arms up to now?
U got rage with BS and through autohits, its not like u would gain enough rage from incomig damage to actually do your rotation right?
So if u miss your first MS, u gain rage through autohits just as u do now, probably u will gain even more rage than now, since after all even with MS generating Rage, everything else costs more and MS has a higher CD.
If u would need to rely on MS rage to even do anything at all, MS would be pretty much completely useless.

[meathead]

How did u play arms up to now?
U got rage with BS and through autohits, its not like u would gain enough rage from incomig damage to actually do your rotation right?
So if u miss your first MS, u gain rage through autohits just as u do now, probably u will gain even more rage than now, since after all even with MS generating Rage, everything else costs more and MS has a higher CD.
If u would need to rely on MS rage to even do anything at all, MS would be pretty much completely useless.

how did i play arms up to now?very well in both pvp and pve.im not on beta thats why im asking the question smart ass.there have been alot of changes on beta.on live ms does not trigger OP,like it does on beta.on live rend will light up OP,on beta thats gone.that is my main question.can we still use overpower is we miss MS.see what im getting at?

my question is a good one,you can BS all you want for 20 rage,that still not enough for a slam or HS,like i said.so we are left with auto attack,for rage.no rage from damage taken,and ms just missed.so all we have is auto attacks and bs,until ms comes off cd again.

[Calamari]

how did i play arms up to now?very well in both pvp and pve.im not on beta thats why im asking the question smart ass.there have been alot of changes on beta.on live ms does not trigger OP,like it does on beta.on live rend will light up OP,on beta thats gone.that is my main question.can we still use overpower is we miss MS.see what im getting at?

my question is a good one,you can BS all you want for 20 rage,that still not enough for a slam or HS,like i said.so we are left with auto attack,for rage.no rage from damage taken,and ms just missed.so all we have is auto attacks and bs,until ms comes off cd again.

As you said shouts and whites will provide a bit of rage for a Slam/HS. In the worst case that your first MS gets parried (being dodged isn't too bad due to the overpower procs), and you can't get enough rage for HS/Slam, well then it's a melee and you can likely try hamstring kiting him until MS is off cooldown again. There's many changes to the Arms playstyle inbound, we just have to see how it plays out hands on.

[Firebert]

With Fury having at least twice the weapon swings that Arms is having, and with Wild Strike being our MS effect and having no cooldown, makes me very happy with how Fury is going to look come Mists of Pandaria.

It's nice to know that MS uptime for Arms might not be 100% because of a couple of parries. <3

[Deleted]

how did i play arms up to now?very well in both pvp and pve.im not on beta thats why im asking the question smart ass.there have been alot of changes on beta.on live ms does not trigger OP,like it does on beta.on live rend will light up OP,on beta thats gone.that is my main question.can we still use overpower is we miss MS.see what im getting at?

my question is a good one,you can BS all you want for 20 rage,that still not enough for a slam or HS,like i said.so we are left with auto attack,for rage.no rage from damage taken,and ms just missed.so all we have is auto attacks and bs,until ms comes off cd again.

The heck is with that atitude man?
I was asking -just how u played till now- as in, just what did u do, not OMG WTF HAVE U BEEN DOIN SO FAR.
Thought that was pretty clear, i stated that nothing really changes compared to now, instead u might gain more rage from auto attacks, beeing enraged gives u more rage and a ton of stuff actually enrages u now.
Jebus

[Phinkydo]

With charge granting 20 rage shouts granting 20 rage + rage from first white swing after charge overpower being rage free and used after dodges then you should never have 6 full seconds of downtime in pvp and then on top of that think of the abilities you get from your talent tree there may be some fillers dependant on spec if you are worried about missing attacks in pvp then that is personal error not class errorto me it looks like blizz has given us warriors are more reliable pvp spec then ever before (instant slams defensive cds mobility cc burst and some mage counter) I relly dont see how anyone can look at the curretn warrior changes and be upset about them in anyway atleast not compared to cata warriors

[meathead]

With charge granting 20 rage shouts granting 20 rage + rage from first white swing after charge overpower being rage free and used after dodges then you should never have 6 full seconds of downtime in pvp and then on top of that think of the abilities you get from your talent tree there may be some fillers dependant on spec if you are worried about missing attacks in pvp then that is personal error not class errorto me it looks like blizz has given us warriors are more reliable pvp spec then ever before (instant slams defensive cds mobility cc burst and some mage counter) I relly dont see how anyone can look at the curretn warrior changes and be upset about them in anyway atleast not compared to cata warriors

ty for the reply.but do not tell me you have never missed an MS b4,it happens all the time in pvp "think rogues/druids ect".but if OP can still be used after a dodge then it works out.by the sounds of it MS will give rage regardless if it hits or not.

it is good for people to complain,it makes blizz pay attention.things that make me question arms pvp in mop are, no auto applied slow.CS is still at 50% in pvp "no burst" we have lost 3 self heals.battle stance has been nerfed "no more -5% damage taken.SR cd is still to high,unnerf it please.safeguard should have been baseline back in warth not for a talent point in mop.same goes for PH.our crit just like on live is gutted "but worse on beta atm".our new talents do not look that good "war banner lol" hell even avatar is on a 3min cd.reck is still +20% damage taken.i think the glyph is trash.why would i use the reck glyph,its only usable every 5 mins,waste of a slot i think.rogues are getting a 50% ms and still have smoke bomb.while us warrior the orginal MS class are stuck with 25%.but rogues need buffs right?

just a few examples i have seen so far that makes me question warrior pvp.i replyed to you in the other thread also phink.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 07:37 PM ----------

The heck is with that atitude man?
I was asking -just how u played till now- as in, just what did u do, not OMG WTF HAVE U BEEN DOIN SO FAR.
Thought that was pretty clear, i stated that nothing really changes compared to now, instead u might gain more rage from auto attacks, beeing enraged gives u more rage and a ton of stuff actually enrages u now.
Jebus

my bad thought you were saying i played arms wrong.the way you worded it sounded off to me.

[Phinkydo]

no auto applied slow.CS is still at 50% in pvp "no burst" we have lost 3 self heals.battle stance has been nerfed "no more -5% damage taken.SR cd is still to high,unnerf it please.safeguard should have been baseline back in warth not for a talent point in mop.same goes for PH.our crit just like on live is gutted "but worse on beta atm".our new talents do not look that good "war banner lol" hell even avatar is on a 3min cd.reck is still +20% damage taken.i think the glyph is trash.why would i use the reck glyph,its only usable every 5 mins,waste of a slot i think.rogues are getting a 50% ms and still have smoke bomb.while us warrior the orginal MS class are stuck with 25%.but rogues need buffs right?

just a few examples i have seen so far that makes me question warrior pvp.i replyed to you in the other thread also phink.[COLOR="red"]

Oh how I would love an auto apply slow like every other class in the game but i think we will have to face that will not happen for wars as for the battle stance nerf we are losing 5% damage reduction but gaining an additional 5% damage while in that stance that along with no more slaughter i think the baseline damage of wars will be very high and i welcome that over bit more beefyness and even with avatar being 3 min cd it gives 30 secs of freedom which we can align with most cds and be "unstoppable" plus i think they are giving us more base crit to make up for talents that gave abilities crit so therefore more crit=more enrage=20% movement speed with avatar we will be scary (war banner + recklessness alone gives 80% crit that with 100% uptime i think we will dominate just my opinion)

but i agree need more self healing if anything...

[bamfrosty]

I earnestly hope they remove auto-applied slows from the game, much less give them to warriors. I'm cautiously optimistic about warrior pvp in MoP. The talents and new glyphs look promising (although I wish they would allow more major glyphs to be used) and I really love how they've managed to streamline the arms DPS rotation (no more Rend, instant Slams). Die By The Sword looks great too.

There are, however, a couple of things that give me pause: the titular MS dilemma and the apparent lack of self-heals. Although in the latter case I'd rather they bring every other DPS spec down to the warrior level of healing rather than buff us.

[PizzaSHARK]

If you miss the first MS, you fucking get your hit cap. You can't have the MS whiff on a stunned target and Warriors are getting a retarded amount of stuns.

[Firebert]

If you miss the first MS, you fucking get your hit cap. You can't have the MS whiff on a stunned target and Warriors are getting a retarded amount of stuns.

Whilst facing Strength classes and whilst attacking Agility classes, it can still be parried and dodged respectively.

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 10:35 AM ----------

Die By The Sword looks great too.

Fury has had Die By The Sword for ages. It's very useful if you can keep a rogue facing you after he's burnt out all his stuns or his stuns are on Diminishing Returns.

[PizzaSHARK]

Whilst facing Strength classes and whilst attacking Agility classes, it can still be parried and dodged respectively.

No.

You cannot use avoidance while stunned, incapacitated, or while otherwise not in control of your character. The only possible way an attack can whiff against a stunned target is if you don't meet the hit softcap.

[Deleted]

Whilst facing Strength classes and whilst attacking Agility classes, it can still be parried and dodged respectively.

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 10:35 AM ----------


Fury has had Die By The Sword for ages. It's very useful if you can keep a rogue facing you after he's burnt out all his stuns or his stuns are on Diminishing Returns.

So I herd expertise was good, also overpower.

[Firebert]

No.

You cannot use avoidance while stunned, incapacitated, or while otherwise not in control of your character. The only possible way an attack can whiff against a stunned target is if you don't meet the hit softcap.

If you plan to use MS on targets that are only stunned, then you need a stun on a 10s cooldown. Warbringer is once every 20s. Shockwave is once every 20s. Stormbolt is once every 30s. This means you COULD have 100% MS uptime by alternating the knockdown of Warbringer and the Stun of Shockwave. But this assumes that no-one else is stunning your target and causing diminishing returns.

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 10:48 AM ----------

So I herd expertise was good, also overpower.

I've got 14% Parry on my Fury Warrior. Do you really want to get 56 Expertise just to prevent MS from missing?

[PizzaSHARK]

If you plan to use MS on targets that are only stunned, then you need a stun on a 10s cooldown. Warbringer is once every 20s. Shockwave is once every 20s. Stormbolt is once every 30s. This means you COULD have 100% MS uptime by alternating the knockdown of Warbringer and the Stun of Shockwave. But this assumes that no-one else is stunning your target and causing diminishing returns.

mop beta -missing the first MS-arm pvp is the thread title. This implies the first MS following a charge or other kind of target swap, which almost invariably happens with a stun or other form of CC.

By the way, there's a difference between a miss and an attack being avoided.

[kubuntu]

Whilst facing Strength classes and whilst attacking Agility classes, it can still be parried and dodged respectively.

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 10:35 AM ----------


Fury has had Die By The Sword for ages. It's very useful if you can keep a rogue facing you after he's burnt out all his stuns or his stuns are on Diminishing Returns.

I heard rumor that since WoW 1.0 Dodge on any atack = Overpower and blizz is not going to change that, So Dodge on MS = Overpower

[Firebert]

mop beta -missing the first MS-arm pvp is the thread title. This implies the first MS following a charge or other kind of target swap, which almost invariably happens with a stun or other form of CC.

By the way, there's a difference between a miss and an attack being avoided.

Unfortunately, both missing and avoiding the first MS leads to the same conclusion: no MS effect on the target for the next 6 seconds.

I do see your point. But saying that MS hits first time, every time, in all PvP forms, when hitcapped is very naïve.

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 10:58 AM ----------

I heard rumor that since WoW 1.0 Dodge on any atack = Overpower and blizz is not going to change that, So Dodge on MS = Overpower

Fury doesn't have Overpower, and if MS is dodged you lose the chance to put the MS effect on your target for six seconds.

[PizzaSHARK]

Unfortunately, both missing and avoiding the first MS leads to the same conclusion: no MS effect on the target for the next 6 seconds.

I do see your point. But saying that MS hits first time, every time, in all PvP forms, when hitcapped is very naïve.

It really isn't. It's exceptionally rare for a Warrior to swap targets without using Charge to do so, and Charge stun lasts long enough to reach the target and throw off an MS before they exit the stun. Practically speaking, your first MS on a fresh target will not miss.

[Ellyidol]

It doesn't sound right if MS alone determines our performance in PvP, it's like Blizz placing all the warrior eggs in one basket, ie. MS.

It should be fine, pretty sure stats/techniques/rotations are gonna change accordingly.

PS. Doesn't Charge have a small built-in stun? Why can't that guarantee an MS?