Should there be Normal and Heroic Only Bosses?

[Markluzz]

As everyone knows you have 'hardcores' complaining there is no point to do heroic mode when it's the same bosses as LFR and Normal, and 'casuals' who if the 'hardcores' got their way would complain they can't see the raids and content.

So my idea is why not make each raid have 1 or 2 bosses that aren't on LFR but are on Normal, and maybe even 1 boss on Heroic that is not on Normal. None of the bosses excluded from LFR would be major lore fights, the ones excluded would mostly be the filler fights, same for the one excluded from Normal (unless they wanted a Sinestra or Algalon type boss). In place of the bosses they would either remove their room, or just fill their room with a couple trash adds.

Example using MoP's raids

Mogu'Shan Vaults

LFR Bosses (would just remove the second floor and you would end up straight at the third)
The Stone Guard
Feng the Accursed
Elegon
Will of the Emperor

Normal Mode (no need to go to the respiratory)
The Stone Guard
Feng the Accursed
Gara'jal the Spiritfinder
Elegon
Will of the Emperor

Heroic Mode
All the bosses (Spirit Kings added)

Heart of Fear

LFR
Imperior Vizier Zor'lock
Blade Lord Ta'yak
Amber Shaper Un'sok
Grand Empress Shek'zeer

Normal
Imperior Vizier Zor'lock
Blade Lord Ta'yak
Garalon
Amber Shaper Un'sok
Grand Empress Shek'zeer

Heroic Mode
All bosses (boss added is Wind Lord Mel'jarak)

And you get the point

Pros
1.It lets Blizzard reduce LFR bosses to 4 boss sections like Dragon Soul (which is honestly the optimal amount as it seems, any longer and players will get annoyed with the random LFR members. Plus LFR is meant for people who can only spare an hour or so)
2.It gives the 'hardcores' a little bit of 'exclusive' content.
3.It gives some freshness to raiding the raid again just on a new difficulty (sure you see some of the old bosses again, but you will have at least one boss seem completely new and 'fresh')

Cons
1.Some content is still 'exclusive', so technically it's not all seen by everybody.
2.You have to workaround a boss not being present in the raid for that mode.

[StationaryHawk]

Wouldn't that be somewhat against the whole purpose of LFR? I'm not against maybe adding a boss at the end of heroic mode (such as Sinestra), but there's no point in removing bosses.

[roflwaffle]

to me a heroic only boss like Sinestra makes it a lot more interesting and gives something new to progressing in heroic, which makes sense why blizz doesnt like that kinda stuff

[Markluzz]

Wouldn't that be somewhat against the whole purpose of LFR? I'm not against maybe adding a boss at the end of heroic mode (such as Sinestra), but there's no point in removing bosses.

I'm just using the MoP bosses as an example for any future raids it would be counted as adding bosses I guess.

[Deleted]

In my opinion just adding an extra phase to the final boss in enough, which is what is happening in tier 14 with the Sha of Fear.

The Dread Expanse - On heroic difficulty the Sha of Fear retreats to the Dread Expanse at low remaining health, dragging players along with him. This watery wasteland is a place of the Sha's making where he has access to a new set of abilities.
Fading Light - The last glimmers of light from the terrace heal players as they are extinguished, restoring 90% health and mana over 6 sec. In addition, all player cooldowns are reset.
Pure Light - The uncorrupted light from the terrace binds itself to the current champion and takes on a new form. It grows stronger, granting the champion immunity to fear and horror effects and reduces their damage taken by 25%.
Transfer Light - The champion can use this ability to move the Pure Light to a targeted friendly player.
Implacable Strike - The Sha unleashes an Implacable Strike in the direction of his current target that inflicts 700,000 damage to enemies up to 0 yards away.
Naked and Afraid - The Sha strips the gear from his current target before performing Implacable Strike, reducing the target's armor and chance to dodge by 100% for 40 sec.
Waterspout - The Sha agitates the water under several players, creating a series of waterspouts. Each waterspout takes 1.5 sec. to form and explode, inflicting 125,000 Frost damage to enemies within 2 yds.
Huddle in Terror - The Sha terrifies several players, causing them to cower in fear and inflicting 80,000 Shadow damage every 1 sec. for 15 sec.
Submerge - The Sha disappears below the surface of the Dread Expanse for a short time, then emerges under a random player and inflicts 600,000 Frost damage to enemies within 10 yds. The Sha summons a Dread Spawn at his location every time he submerges.
Dread Spawn - This creature fixates on the current champion of the light. If a new player becomes the champion the Dread Spawn changes targets.
Sha Spine - The Dread Spawn emits Sha Spines. Each spine inflicts 97,500 Shadow damage to a random player.
Eternal Darkness - The Dread Spawn kills his current target when he reaches melee range.
Gathering Speed - The Dread Spawn periodically gains 100% movement speed. This effect can stack up to 3 times, but is reset when a new Champion of the Light is chosen.

This sounds good enough to be a final boss.

[Gondlem]

A heroic only boss every now and then is fun. Doesn't have to be every tier. I do think there should be extra phases/mechanics on most heroic bosses though. Ideally each heroic boss should feel like a fundamentally different fight from the normal mode version. In DS I think Yor'sahj and Spine achieved this, or Rag in Firelands, but something like Madness definitely did not and overall too many bosses missed the mark in the last two tiers of Cata which is why much of that content felt unsatisfying.

Tier 11 was pretty close to what they should aim for most of the time in terms of the normal -> heroic adjustment.

[Scummer]

Well I feel HC's should have unique bosses that add to the raid eg.Sinestra. HC should be a little more than simply defeat these buffed bosses, there should be things in place to make it more unique.

[Sylla]

Actually the idea of having a few bosses in normal but not in LFR is pretty interesting, may make people who have only cleared LFR still feel like they have some content left to complete. As long as it is only a couple of bosses and not entire raids of course. But it would probably be problematic as it would stop players from feeling like they have seen 'all the content' since it would have to be the final bosses of the instances that were skipped. In the example you gave you said to skip the middle floor, but that would be kind of weird, killing the final big bad of each tier without killing his lackeys and may not even be possible in some instance layouts.

I definitely think that there should be at least one or two optional heroic only bosses a tier though, it is just such a cool concept and those tiers with it in the past have been better because of it.

[Markluzz]

Actually the idea of having a few bosses in normal but not in LFR is pretty interesting, may make people who have only cleared LFR still feel like they have some content left to complete. As long as it is only a couple of bosses and not entire raids of course. But it would probably be problematic as it would stop players from feeling like they have seen 'all the content' since it would have to be the final bosses of the instances that were skipped. In the example you gave you said to skip the middle floor, but that would be kind of weird, killing the final big bad of each tier without killing his lackeys and may not even be possible in some instance layouts.

I definitely think that there should be at least one or two optional heroic only bosses a tier though, it is just such a cool concept and those tiers with it in the past have been better because of it.

Yeah that's the biggest con to it, but the pros imo seem to outway the cons

[Tziva]

I think having a special "heroic only" side boss in each tier is fun and gives something special to the top guilds, but doesn't deny much to average players.

Having "normal only" bosses sorta defeats many of the goals of LFR, so I don't think it's a particularly great idea. If it was just one side boss, then that might be okay, but it definitely shouldn't be a bunch and it shouldn't be the end boss.

[Z3ROR]

I totally love the idea that some bosses might not be in other difficulty levels.

See the following imaginary raid:

      |	Boss 1	Boss 2	Boss 3	Boss 4	Boss 5	Boss 6	Boss 7	Boss 8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
LFR   |   X	  X	  X	  X	  X	 gone	 gone	 gone
Normal|   X	  X	  X	 gone 	  X	  X	 gone 	  X
Heroic|	 gone	  X	  X	  X	  X	  X	  X	  X

Boss 1: Fortress gatekeeper
In LFR and Normal it is neccesary to beat the gatekeeper. You wanna get in right?
On Heroic however, you already defeated this guy and the gate is demolished already (you did this in LFR/normal right?)

Boss 2: Warhero
The Warhero block your path when you're inside.

Boss 3: Local creep
Local creep want to kill you with his minions.

Boss 4: Warp creature
You found this creature between some adds in LFR mode, but badly enough the guy has more friends in heroic mode.
In normal mode he seems to be gone. Only adds are blocking the way.

Boss 5: War officer
The big guy before you enter the main building of the raid. Too badly enoug he blocks the way for you before you kill him in LFR. This LFR's final battle.
But with a special move you seems to block the demolishing in Normal and heroic so you can get in.

Boss 6: Royal advisor
The advisor suggests you to leave or he kills you.

Boss 7: Royal Doorkeeper
Royal doorkeeper left the door unlocked for you on normal. You can go in instantly.
Badly enough he didn't do that favor on heroic mode. kill him to get the key.

Boss 8: Big boss.
Big final fight of the raid.

See how this works out? I think this might really work. If Blizzard can tell you a story in three different perspectives so you get 3 ways of how to view the raid then this will really work. And can be cool too. And on every mode you would have things to see which the other difficulties have not.

[Wikiy]

I voted no because i can't consciously say i'd like to see something while ignoring what other players would like. And it's a fact LFR is a huge success. Even though i don't like it at all. Another thing is that i'd like only heroic as much as i'd like only heroic and normal opposed to normal, heroic and LFR.

[Arbs]

I feel that the last boss like Will of The Emperor, Grand Embress & Sha of Fear should be Herioc only and LFR only gets the first 4, Just my opinion.

[fearist]

There should only be an additonal HM boss like Sinestra.

[Fenixdown]

I don't like the idea of taking bosses from normal mode. LFR I'm indifferent on. However, taking them from normal? Why? That seems pointless to me. You're just screwing over people who choose to actually be a part of your server's raiding community for no other reason than you simply can do so.

I'm for adding heroic-only bosses. I'm not for taking bosses away from normal in the perception of doing so.

[Markluzz]

I feel that the last boss like Will of The Emperor, Grand Embress & Sha of Fear should be Herioc only and LFR only gets the first 4, Just my opinion.

That defeats the purpose of LFR to let people see the story fights like Deathwing and such. If the fight is just a filler fight I don't see why it has to be in LFR though which is the point I was trying to make.

[Keoren]

I think exclusive encounters are fun but I would not argue for them being necessary. LFR missing one completely irrelevant encounter each tier sounds like an idea that might attract a handful of people into trying their wings on the normal modes but I am ultimately undecided.

Encounters that are limited to heroic, and especially if placed towards the end of a tier, undeniably manage to gather an air of mystery surrounding them, no matter how irrelevant they might be to the big picture. Those who reach them get a sense of feeling that they deserve to be there, similarly to how you had to kill both Lady Vashj and Kael'thas to be entitled to enter Mount Hyjal. However, one could argue that these bosses do not serve a greater purpose than simply adding a well designed additional phase to an encounter that is also available on the other difficulties does. Sinestra and Algalon are examples of the former, while Ragnaros and possibly Sha of Fear are examples of the latter. I think both of these scenarios can end up being very successful and the question comes down to our own values regarding various aspects of the game such as accessibility.

I'm for adding heroic-only bosses. I'm not for taking bosses away from normal in the perception of doing so.

These two are practically the same thing since both would result in the normal difficulty ending up with one encounter less than the heroic difficulty. You would also not be taking an encounter away if it wasn't there in the first place. I don't want to nitpick, and just think that these two sentences came off as somewhat odd.

[Fenixdown]

These two are practically the same thing since both would result in the normal difficulty ending up with one encounter less than the heroic difficulty. You would also not be taking an encounter away if it wasn't there in the first place. I don't want to nitpick, and just think that these two sentences came off as somewhat odd.

I'm sorry that your math teachers did a poor job. The ones who taught me showed me pretty clearly that 6 - 1 is indeed not the same as 6 + 1.

There is a major difference between adding content and subtracting it. Kind of why they're called adding and subtracting. The OP just listed every boss that has already been tested for normal mode encounter design and, from each raid, taken one off the list. How is that the same as a fight like Sinestra or Algalon, again?

His idea is, essentially, to make an ICC where you don't even get to fight the Lich King on normal mode. That's just absurd. If you want to add an encounter, fine, be my guest. Don't drop one off the list to give the perception that you "added" one to heroic. That's not adding anything. That's just taking away from something else to give the illusion of addition.

In other words, what I want is this.

- There are two piles of M & M's. One has more M & M's than the other.

What the OP suggested is this.

- There are two piles of M & M's. Some M & M's were moved from one pile to another pile.

I want there to be more M & M's. Not the same number switched arbitrarily to give perception of there being more M & M's.

[Kaleredar]

I feel heroic only bosses are a good idea if and only if they aren't the "title villain" of the raid. Like Algalon. He was relevant to the plot, but Yogg-saron was still the focus of Ulduar. Same with Bastion of Twilight. I feel these fights can be good, and are an easy way to silence the special snowflake crowd, so long as they, as I said, aren't the "titular raid boss."

[Sam the Wiser]

Take this plan to Blizzard ASAP!