Charr and their machines

[Tallion]

Ok, I get it, thanks for telling me, didn't know that.
But then the question is, if they're so powerful, how come those 6 heroes... don't know their names, there was a norn lady and her wolf, two asuras and their golems, a male charr, a male human and a female sylvari... defeat some dragons?

Destiny's Edge (the group you're talking about) never actually defeated a dragon -- they fought dragon champions composing of an undead sea captain, a destroyer, and a telepathic ice creature. All of which while powerful, are like insects in both power and size to an elder dragon.

Destinty's Edge spoiler:
In fact, when they did try to take on the elder dragon Kralkatorrik with the help of Glint -- not only a dragon herself but Kralkatorrik's champion though she rebelled -- it ended in disaster. And that was with Snaff subduing Kralkatorrik via arcane crystals. Without him or another Asura capable of that, taking down elder dragons got a whole lot harder.

Well yes, but aren't the dragons like hating on everyone? I mean won't they one day come for the charr and the humans and everyone else?

And in the face of such threat, wouldn't the humans not only let the charr army pass through, but even support it? Actually... aren't the 5 playable races working together now as we speak? They could make some pact "ok, we kill all the dragons together then we all go home and return to our wars".

And how were the Asura pushed out by one dragon alone?


And if dragons are so powerful, doesn't it mean that in the end we can't win and all of Tyria will become a vast zombie-filled camp one day?

The truce between charr and humans is tenuous at best. There's centuries of vitriol and body counts are high on both sides, so even now there is very little trust on either side. There's quite a few members on both sides who think they don't need help to take on the elder dragons, or want to wipe out the other race even if it means not standing a chance to the dragons, just for the sake of revenge.

And the asura weren't pushed out by one dragon per se, it was the minions of Primordus, the destroyers who did that. When Primordus awoke, his minions awoke with him and rampaged throughout the Depths of Tyria. The Asura had built closely to the sleeping Primordus since he emitted magical energy, so when he awoke there was very little warning for them. Most of the Asura ended dead or cut off, the dwarves were massacred before sacrificing themselves to delay the destroyers and stand watch, and a number of other species such as the skritt were pushed up to the surface.

The elder dragons are very, very powerful but they aren't invincible. Kralkatorrik was close to being taken down and Jormag had one of his teeth removed by a norn. But that was when both were newly awakened so it will take a whole lot more to kill them now. It's not impossible, but it will be one hell of a fight

[Zemenar]

And in the face of such threat, wouldn't the humans not only let the charr army pass through, but even support it? Actually... aren't the 5 playable races working together now as we speak? They could make some pact "ok, we kill all the dragons together then we all go home and return to our wars".

Given I only know the story based on GoA I can only say that the Charr and Humans have a "truce" right now not an actual pact or alliance so while the humans could prolly see the importance of destroying the Elder Dragons its still basically allowing the race that brought them to near extinction (on that continent) free passage through their lands with a huge army and enough fire power to finish what they started in Ascalon. Its just too dangerous for humans to allow.


From your question it sounded like you were asking why the Charr dont go around single handely kill off the dragons with their tech, so I answered why it wouldnt be possible but yes its completely different if all the races worked together and I believe thats the major point of the GW2 story line, we the hero, are trying to unite all the races so we can gather our forces / tech / ideas / resources / etc to deal with these dragons as a single force. Its a whole different story if an army of all races are marching through human lands since the other races can keep the charr portions in check if they try anything.

[Merendel]

Also, once you cross a certain threshold of technology, your killing power increases exponentially and nothing becomes "too hard to kill".

While this is technicly true the sticky widget is how to kill something of that scale without wipeing yourself out in the process. Modern day earth could probably "Kill" Mt Everest by nukeing the hell out of it but how much damage would that do to the rest of the planet? Likewise any weapon or tech developed that could take down something of the size and power of the elder dragons would stand a good chance of laying waste to a continent if unleashed while on a planet. Theres a reason why fantasy worlds that involve technology advanced beyond a particular level tend to take place in space if war is to be part of the story. The big guns are just to devastating to use planet side beyond mutually assured destruction scenarios.

[Dodrin]

I'd say the problem with "killing" or handling elder dragons in any way stems from the magic they use. Zhaitan has hordes of undead which rise form the sea, anything Kralkatorrik flies near is turned to crystal (and living things become living crystal), and I'd assume the other dragons have similar abilities. So the big question becomes how can you handle an elder dragon while also dealing with his minion?

Bleak times, my friends.

[Durzlla]

I'd say the problem with "killing" or handling elder dragons in any way stems from the magic they use. Zhaitan has hordes of undead which rise form the sea, anything Kralkatorrik flies near is turned to crystal (and living things become living crystal), and I'd assume the other dragons have similar abilities. So the big question becomes how can you handle an elder dragon while also dealing with his minion?

Bleak times, my friends.

Easily, you don't, you lull them back to slumber and then banish their ass to someone else's realm to deal with lol

[Glytch]

So i just saw a video of the Charr capital and it was like watching some futuristic town with crazy machines and I also remembered the Charr say they killed their gods(I also wonder why) but it made me wonder.... why don't the Charr just get their machines out in the field and kill the dragons and whatever other enemies are there?

I mean ok, we don't know the Asura stuff yet, so they could have crazy tech as well(I saw they have portals built by tech, not magic, so they could be even more advanced), but for now I saw the Charr and so why don't they?

1st) they did not kill their gods, the humans did



twice


2nd) after the destruction of the destroyers and casting out of the flame legion they refused to worship any gods
http://youtu.be/tdGcWmldBvc?t=9m5s

why dont the charr just dick slap the dragons? well look at ebonhawke... it's been there for i think about 240ish years now? at they still havent sacked it

[Blufossa]

Hmm, alone I don't see the Charr making a dent in any of the Elder Dragons.

But combined with the intelligent Asuran, the stalwart Humans, the brawny Norn, and the lithe Sylvari, then I could see them becoming something to reckon with.

[DrakeWurrum]

First of all, you cant kill a dragon, they will always come back eventually...and you really think a few cannons would be enough to bring down a elder dragon that is so big it blocks out the sun!

Dragons so big that, when dormant, they were believed to be mountain ranges.

Not mountains. Entire mountain ranges.

[Glytch]

Dragons so big that, when dormant, they were believed to be mountain ranges.

Not mountains. Entire mountain ranges.

i was just in wardowns not 3 mins ago and he doesnt look like a MOUNTAIN... more like a spiky large hill

[DrakeWurrum]

i was just in wardowns not 3 mins ago and he doesnt look like a MOUNTAIN... more like a spiky large hill

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kralkatorrik

Check out the concept art!

Now compare to the size of the ships, and realize how large humans are by comparison.

The wiki says it was believed to be "a" mountain, but... that's pretty damn huge imo, when you consider that's only a part of his back or tail!

[Cuchulainn]

The charr and asura will unite their brilliance....and create floating siege tanks.
Then...the elder dragons shall tremble.

Destructive power = Charr.
Useless anti-gravity floatation bullshit = Asura.

The Charr are the only ones to be thanked when the Dragons are put back to sleep. All other races are inferior, and shall be conquered at a later time. Everything is going as planned.

[Glytch]

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kralkatorrik

Check out the concept art!

Now compare to the size of the ships, and realize how large humans are by comparison.

The wiki says it was believed to be "a" mountain, but... that's pretty damn huge imo, when you consider that's only a part of his back or tail!

i took these screens just now for you

dont say i never loved you

a hill on approach to kralkatorrik
http://i.imgur.com/bKXsr.jpg

kralkatorrik attached to the same hill
http://i.imgur.com/5plK3.jpg

another clearer view of kralkatorrik
http://i.imgur.com/flOhF.jpg

its pretty much a hill, with spikes

heres a mountain in texas

[DrakeWurrum]

i took these screens just now for you

I've seen the GW1 version of Kralkatorrik, and I don't see why you think it compares. It's GW1. :|

[Deleted]

They only defeated some of the Elder Dragons' champions, not the Elder Dragons themselves.

Ok, I understand now! I thought they defeated the dragons themselves.

I can answer that one at least. From the wiki, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primordus.

"Primordus' original resting place was in a cavern, deep underground, where it was assumed by the asura to simply be a statue emitting a high amount of magical energy. For this reason, they built the Central Transfer Chamber near the dragon. After its awakening, its minions, the destroyers, flooded the Depths of Tyria, crushing any hopes the asura had of returning to their natural home. "

edit- Also from the wiki.

With that quote in mind there is also the following from an old interview.

So it could be they think there are bigger fish, each other or otherwise, to fry than to worry about wiping out the lesser races while their minions are more suited.

So in the end the Asura were defeated in their home because their power generators sat next to a mad evil dragon? Well I hope they learned their lesson now.

Destiny's Edge (the group you're talking about) never actually defeated a dragon -- they fought dragon champions composing of an undead sea captain, a destroyer, and a telepathic ice creature. All of which while powerful, are like insects in both power and size to an elder dragon.

Destinty's Edge spoiler:
In fact, when they did try to take on the elder dragon Kralkatorrik with the help of Glint -- not only a dragon herself but Kralkatorrik's champion though she rebelled -- it ended in disaster. And that was with Snaff subduing Kralkatorrik via arcane crystals. Without him or another Asura capable of that, taking down elder dragons got a whole lot harder.



The truce between charr and humans is tenuous at best. There's centuries of vitriol and body counts are high on both sides, so even now there is very little trust on either side. There's quite a few members on both sides who think they don't need help to take on the elder dragons, or want to wipe out the other race even if it means not standing a chance to the dragons, just for the sake of revenge.

And the asura weren't pushed out by one dragon per se, it was the minions of Primordus, the destroyers who did that. When Primordus awoke, his minions awoke with him and rampaged throughout the Depths of Tyria. The Asura had built closely to the sleeping Primordus since he emitted magical energy, so when he awoke there was very little warning for them. Most of the Asura ended dead or cut off, the dwarves were massacred before sacrificing themselves to delay the destroyers and stand watch, and a number of other species such as the skritt were pushed up to the surface.

The elder dragons are very, very powerful but they aren't invincible. Kralkatorrik was close to being taken down and Jormag had one of his teeth removed by a norn. But that was when both were newly awakened so it will take a whole lot more to kill them now. It's not impossible, but it will be one hell of a fight

I understand, thanks for info. But I read that in there was a dragon who worked with the playable races, can't remember her name (think it was a she) and told people where dragons are and she had her nest hidden in a grain of sand in that magnumm desert.

So question is, can't we convince other dragons to join us? We could fake being minions and destroy the others with their help then destroy the last ourselves

[Tithonus]

I understand, thanks for info. But I read that in there was a dragon who worked with the playable races, can't remember her name (think it was a she) and told people where dragons are and she had her nest hidden in a grain of sand in that magnumm desert.

So question is, can't we convince other dragons to join us? We could fake being minions and destroy the others with their help then destroy the last ourselves

This is probably the dragon you are thinking of, may be some spoilers for those playing GW1 and/or reading the books(I'm unable to comment how much as I haven't played/read either). GW2 Wiki and GW1 Wiki.

[Glytch]

I've seen the GW1 version of Kralkatorrik, and I don't see why you think it compares. It's GW1. :|

even so, he's still fucking huge, he's very wide, not tall

my main point of contention is that what we see is nowhere near a mountain

plus GW2 is a sequel, the vast majority is going to stick true to its roots. itd be a pretty big letdown if they have to go retcon something like the dragons.

the one dragon i do see them maybe increasing in size is primordius

or maybe he just has a tiny fucking head

---------- Post added 2012-03-31 at 03:20 AM ----------

Ok, I understand now! I thought they defeated the dragons themselves.


So in the end the Asura were defeated in their home because their power generators sat next to a mad evil dragon? Well I hope they learned their lesson now.


I understand, thanks for info. But I read that in there was a dragon who worked with the playable races, can't remember her name (think it was a she) and told people where dragons are and she had her nest hidden in a grain of sand in that magnumm desert.

So question is, can't we convince other dragons to join us? We could fake being minions and destroy the others with their help then destroy the last ourselves

the asura didnt think primordius was a dragon, just a huge area of increased magic

EoD spoilers

the reason glint joins the fight is becuase she was so closely involved with the humans and felt pity. dont expect the shatterer, the new zhaitan champ or primordius champ to feel the same way, esp since jormag's zhaitain's, and kralkatorrik's champions are brand new, they havent had time to mingle with the mortals.

i do however see kuunavang being bubble's champion... unlikely however i mean its not like they'll pull the same twist twice

[DrakeWurrum]

even so, he's still fucking huge, he's very wide, not tall

my main point of contention is that what we see is nowhere near a mountain

plus GW2 is a sequel, the vast majority is going to stick true to its roots. itd be a pretty big letdown if they have to go retcon something like the dragons.

It wouldn't be a retcon. This would simply be a case of the dragon not being properly represented by game graphics. Considering he's supposed to be a thousand feet tall, and how big he is in the concept art compared to the sailing ships beside him, the image I see does not come close.

[Glytch]

It wouldn't be a retcon. This would simply be a case of the dragon not being properly represented by game graphics. Considering he's supposed to be a thousand feet tall, and how big he is in the concept art compared to the sailing ships beside him, the image I see does not come close.

he's probably buried really deep

i mean its not like he's a dog rolled over on his back napping

shit primordius was stuck deep underground with lava and shit

[Deleted]

This is probably the dragon you are thinking of, may be some spoilers for those playing GW1 and/or reading the books(I'm unable to comment how much as I haven't played/read either). GW2 Wiki and GW1 Wiki.

Yes, that was the one I was thinking about, thanks for remembering me its name.

[/COLOR]
the asura didnt think primordius was a dragon, just a huge area of increased magic

EoD spoilers

the reason glint joins the fight is becuase she was so closely involved with the humans and felt pity. dont expect the shatterer, the new zhaitan champ or primordius champ to feel the same way, esp since jormag's zhaitain's, and kralkatorrik's champions are brand new, they havent had time to mingle with the mortals.

i do however see kuunavang being bubble's champion... unlikely however i mean its not like they'll pull the same twist twice

True that, but I was thinking more not as in we make a dragon feel empathy towards us, but rather:
"Hey dragon, we want to join your fight against other dragons, here, we have machines, flying devices, warp gates, a giant tree, lots of humans who do a lot of stuff and spirits of the wild, ok? ok"
3 months later
"So yea, we've killed a lot of other minions, but you know, other dragons need to be crushed too, I mean they'll always challange your rule if we don't destroy them oh great one. Also, we love you, here's some flowers and candy."
*dragon tells you secret plan of dragon killing*
"Ok, all other dragons are dead... and now I'd like to tell you we've planted an exploding device on you. Bye bye"
*last dragon dies*

*celebration beings!*
*3 months later war between races resume and they blow up their planet since they're stupid fighting amongst one another*

[Sy]

The charr and asura will unite their brilliance....and create floating siege tanks.
Then...the elder dragons shall tremble.

and the sylvari shall decorate them with pwetty, pwetty flowers! \o/

^_^

on topic though, i'm pretty sure they are using as much of their machinery against the dragons (and other foes) as they can.