MoP Beta Ask the Enhancement.

[Protoman]

i asume now wolfs will work as elementals on live so u can use agility trinkets and potions and it will take snapshot AP for rest of duration

Does this mean they don't constantly update their AP as yours goes up and down? That's a bad change isn't it? Snapshot sucks, then you gotta time it instead of just use whenever you want.


Can I get some clarification on the Fire elemental?

It's 5min cd, 1 min duration regular right?
With glyph, is it 3min, 1:40m duration, or 40s duration?

@ Spirit walk
The tooltip says its supposed to remove all impairing effects like it used to. I don't think it ever made you immune, maybe only the wolves used to be immune.

[Enhanced]

With the glyph it is 36s Duration and 180s Cooldown (3 Minutes).

[panda040]

Do spirit wolves still suck dick? I mean they had there use before with enabling a dash and a 2 sec stun but now it seems in addition to being retarded guardians they bring nothing to the table and are a laughable ability

[Protoman]

With the glyph it is 36s Duration and 180s Cooldown (3 Minutes).

Why am I seeing people say that it's either 40s, or 1m40s duration? Can you double check on that one?

Do spirit wolves still suck dick? I mean they had there use before with enabling a dash and a 2 sec stun but now it seems in addition to being retarded guardians they bring nothing to the table and are a laughable ability

We have Spirit Walk on a separate 2 min cd now so you don't need wolves to use it. We also got a 5 sec aoe stun with the new capacitor totem.

From what I have seen, yes Feral spirits do suck. They do awful damage, still don't scale properly, only take AP and not crit or haste.....and apparently it's a snapshot now, not dynamically updated as your AP fluctuates. They bug out and only one wolf attacks, plus they have a delay when first summoned to start attacking. And being a guardian, they have the same crappy AI that searing totem and fire ele have. I really hope the AI gets an overhaul to be alot more precise/accurate/fast/reliable whatever.....as well as fix the damage on the wolves.

They are also supposed to have a new stronger "spirit bite" attack, and their healing should last for their duration that they are out, but thats also still buggy. I'm gonna wait a little longer before I really start to complain about them, but I hope they get fixed soon.

[panda040]

Why am I seeing people say that it's either 40s, or 1m40s duration? Can you double check on that one?



We have Spirit Walk on a separate 2 min cd now so you don't need wolves to use it. We also got a 5 sec aoe stun with the new capacitor totem.

From what I have seen, yes Feral spirits do suck. They do awful damage, still don't scale properly, only take AP and not crit or haste.....and apparently it's a snapshot now, not dynamically updated as your AP fluctuates. They bug out and only one wolf attacks, plus they have a delay when first summoned to start attacking. And being a guardian, they have the same crappy AI that searing totem and fire ele have. I really hope the AI gets an overhaul to be alot more precise/accurate/fast/reliable whatever.....as well as fix the damage on the wolves.

They are also supposed to have a new stronger "spirit bite" attack, and their healing should last for their duration that they are out, but thats also still buggy. I'm gonna wait a little longer before I really start to complain about them, but I hope they get fixed soon.

as far as capacitor totem goes the charging time is about 5 seconds(3glyphed) right? so if you want to effectivly use capacitor totem you have to get totemic projection. and i cant imagine even stunning the rogue that jumps on you if you cant even drop it heh.

[Endus]

Why am I seeing people say that it's either 40s, or 1m40s duration? Can you double check on that one?

It's neither. The glyph is currently reducing the cooldown by 40%, to 3 minutes, and increasing the duration by 40%, to 84 seconds (1 minute and 24 seconds).

I'm reasonably sure that's a glitch or error, since Major glyphs aren't supposed to be straight DPS upgrades with no disadvantages, and that absolutely is.

I also checked a few other things and posted the info in the other big thread we've got going here, linked so as to not duplicate it. If you want to discuss that, please discuss it in THAT thread, since it's more relevant there and I don't want to split the discussion.

[Tides]

I'm gonna wait a little longer before I really start to complain about them, but I hope they get fixed soon.

If you've got access to the Beta forums, then please dont wait with complaining. This is what beta is for. Make sure they know that this needs to be fixed for live!

[Protoman]

It's neither. The glyph is currently reducing the cooldown by 40%, to 3 minutes, and increasing the duration by 40%, to 84 seconds (1 minute and 24 seconds).

I'm reasonably sure that's a glitch or error, since Major glyphs aren't supposed to be straight DPS upgrades with no disadvantages, and that absolutely is.

Hmm interesting, yea prob is a bug.....would be an obvious glyph choice otherwise.

If you've got access to the Beta forums, then please dont wait with complaining. This is what beta is for. Make sure they know that this needs to be fixed for live!

I wish I was in the Beta. I didn't get the annual pass, and I don't have an active account. I got into Cata beta with an inactive account though, so still holding out hope for this one......but prob won't be until all the pass people get in and they invite us regular people.

In the meantime though, please complain on my behalf xD

Some Enhance specific points to bring up:

-Feral spirits scaling to inc crit and haste, buff damage, AI, and bugs
-Give Fire Ele pet bar regardless of talent, but with only basic pet commands like "assist" stance
-LS and WS glyphs being baseline (outdated mechanic)
-Haste scaling better or more incorporated into abilities, so we can get more out of cd's like Blust and Ele Mastery
-Fixing the mana regen issues, maybe inc mana pool a bit as well, reduce SS cost
-Echo of Elements to proc higher, and also include static shock procs, maybe even LL (I can dream right)
-For the "wrath of flame" buff or whatever, instead of 10% SP make it 10% AP for Enhance
-Reduce the gcd on imbues to 1 sec
-Add the totem bar back, or some way to organize and keep track of totems
-Searing Flames, longshot but maybe make it based off melee attacks or flame shock dot instead of totem
-Some talent to buff shocks to make them more interesting.....specifically increase the dot damage/scaling of flame shock, and crit rate/damage of ES as well as mini execute by increase it's damage <30%

[kallaesia]

Thank you for the video. im rather disappointed at the chance of proc

[Zanon]

Any cool glyphs intergrated yet like what druids n warriors are getting? You know like a warriors thunderclap actually bringing down lightning....... we enhancement shamans should get somthing like that.

[DrakeWurrum]

- I like this mechanic of aoe especially in the new dungeon available: Temple of the Jade Serpent, as it allows a nice ammount of aoe without having to change target too much.

Meh. I still wish we had something that wasn't directly tied to our single-target abilities. The damage is nice, but the mechanics of it is truly frustrating to me. Sure, my own suggestion was to implement separate abilities that shared CDs with our single-target spells, but it still allowed smooth transitions between the two.
Having to delay our big-hitting Lava Lash, as well as tab-targeting Flame Shock to spread around even more DoTs for optimal AoE, and the Flame Shock spreading confusing the AI of our Searing Totem... really makes the AoE a PITA.

On that note, when you spread Flame Shock with Lava Lash, does it appear to confuse the Fire Elemental at all?

- In regards to talents i'm not impressed with, i think that there are two tiers which are very disappointing as Enhancement: Level 30 and Level 60 tiers. The level 30 tier i can't see much use as enhancement due to its about rooting and slowing as a melee unless you are kiting or pvping i don't see much use in this. The level 60 tier is supposed to be one of the "damage buff talents" for shaman and the only one that had a hope, Echo of the Elements, procs on very few spells that we use often making it the best out of a bad choice so this could be better. In regards to Stone Bulwark i think it would be a very optimum replacement of the old glyphed stoneclaw, but i think it won't scale so as an expansion progresses you will want to go for Astral Shift more.

Hrm. I hadn't thought that about the level 30 tier. It does make sense that it won't see much use as a melee Shaman outside of situations where kiting is needed, however. Somewhat expected, but also disappointing. What are your thoughts on the Windwalk Totem?

Also, I'm assuming by your comments on the level 60 tier that Enhancement Shaman still don't seem to get a lot of use out of Haste?
If not, I'm disappointed that we've made it to beta without any big changes to our MSW mechanics, like they claimed would happen back in either a dev blog or an old Ask The Devs...
It's also highly disappointing that Echo of the Elements won't copy our Lava Lash...

[Deleted]

I tried my enhance shaman out earlier and I cant get my head around the new totem system its seems pretty awkward to me, I guess we just use searing/fire elemental and then use the rest depending on situation? I was probably missing something but it just felt like we got about 10 new abilities to use it felt off.

[Protoman]

Meh. I still wish we had something that wasn't directly tied to our single-target abilities. The damage is nice, but the mechanics of it is truly frustrating to me. Sure, my own suggestion was to implement separate abilities that shared CDs with our single-target spells, but it still allowed smooth transitions between the two.
Having to delay our big-hitting Lava Lash, as well as tab-targeting Flame Shock to spread around even more DoTs for optimal AoE, and the Flame Shock spreading confusing the AI of our Searing Totem... really makes the AoE a PITA.

On that note, when you spread Flame Shock with Lava Lash, does it appear to confuse the Fire Elemental at all?

Yea, I remember the ideas for an AOE that shared the same cd as shocks.....Nova shock or something. Or Lava Slash for burst cleave, instead of Lava Lash for single burst on the same cd. I like the current mechanic, much better then the old tab target, but having to delay LL is annoying (I suppose thats part of the setup though, or "skill barrier" as all unfun things are called)......and confusing Searing totem is definitely a pain, but more a problem with Searing totem having a crappy AI.

I did come up with a cool idea for a new way to setup our AOE, based on a similar idea by some other poster. Basically FN spreads your Flame shock instead of LL (so now aoe ability spreads instead of single). Also, you get a talent that lets you use FN twice before triggering a cd. This basically lets you use this rotation for aoe....

FLS>FN>FN or FLS>FN>ULE>FN (max dmg)

It's still the same 3-4 gcds that LL used to take, but now you get 2 AOE abilities within that time frame instead of only one aoe.


As for Fire Ele, I don't think it relies on FLS/SS debuff anymore. Fire Ele and feral spirits switched brains, so it now functions like a pet even without the bar, and will assist you....least thats what people are reporting.

Hrm. I hadn't thought that about the level 30 tier. It does make sense that it won't see much use as a melee Shaman outside of situations where kiting is needed, however. Somewhat expected, but also disappointing. What are your thoughts on the Windwalk Totem?

Also, I'm assuming by your comments on the level 60 tier that Enhancement Shaman still don't seem to get a lot of use out of Haste?
If not, I'm disappointed that we've made it to beta without any big changes to our MSW mechanics, like they claimed would happen back in either a dev blog or an old Ask The Devs...
It's also highly disappointing that Echo of the Elements won't copy our Lava Lash...

I think T2 is fine, Frozen Power is sick in PVP. None of the talents on that tier do much for PVE anyways, cept maybe egrab for an add phase.

And yea, Haste is still gimp for Enhance. We won't be getting much benefit out of cd's like Ele Mastery, Anc Swift, or Blust. This really sucks as I was hoping they would fix this.....not so much the haste on gear, but to give us more DPS during our big cd's. So T4 kinda sucks for Enh, basically only EoE is any good.

I'm disappointed with MW5 too, so far nothing was done to increase it's priority. The crit damage might help, but I doubt it will make it higher then SS or LL. I had a suggestion for MW5 that increases the priority without having to buff it's damage, basically "every full MW5 stack consumed will reduce the cd of Feral Spirits and Ascendence.....by 2sec and 3 sec respectively." This would encourage you to use it asap to get your cd's faster.

EoE hopefully proc rate is adjusted to be higher for Enh, since we cast spells less often and usually shocks, not higher damage spells like LB or LvB. My suggestion here was to make it either a ppm, like 6ppm.....or high% chance with icd, so 50% chance but 10 sec icd, so procs once every 10 sec.

[DrakeWurrum]

I did come up with a cool idea for a new way to setup our AOE, based on a similar idea by some other poster. Basically FN spreads your Flame shock instead of LL (so now aoe ability spreads instead of single). Also, you get a talent that lets you use FN twice before triggering a cd. This basically lets you use this rotation for aoe....

I could accept our Flame-Shock spreading mechanics if it was tied to Fire Nova instead of Lava Lash, I think. I'd still be unhappy because of totem AI, but at least my single-target wouldn't be so intimately entwined with it.

---------- Post added 2012-04-02 at 01:48 PM ----------

I think T2 is fine, Frozen Power is sick in PVP. None of the talents on that tier do much for PVE anyways, cept maybe egrab for an add phase.

Oh, I don't doubt that it's useful, I'm just concerned that Blizzard will fail to design encounters that will allow us to really make use of our utility. It's far too often that Blizzard is like "Oh hey, kill all these adds! ... and they're immune to CC" or you have a fight where you're encouraged to mostly stand still or doesn't even have adds. (Ultraxion, Morchok, Baleroc, Majordomo)
At least these talents would have been useful on Beth'tilac and potentially Shannox.

And yea, Haste is still gimp for Enhance. We won't be getting much benefit out of cd's like Ele Mastery, Anc Swift, or Blust. This really sucks as I was hoping they would fix this.....not so much the haste on gear, but to give us more DPS during our big cd's. So T4 kinda sucks for Enh, basically only EoE is any good.

I'm disappointed with MW5 too, so far nothing was done to increase it's priority. The crit damage might help, but I doubt it will make it higher then SS or LL. I had a suggestion for MW5 that increases the priority without having to buff it's damage, basically "every full MW5 stack consumed will reduce the cd of Feral Spirits and Ascendence.....by 2sec and 3 sec respectively." This would encourage you to use it asap to get your cd's faster.

At the very least it could reduce the CD on that new 5-minute CD totem.


One of the few things I'm looking forward to is that we finally get our delayed stun totem back.


On that note, Enhanced, have you tried out the new stunning totem yet?

[Protoman]

I could accept our Flame-Shock spreading mechanics if it was tied to Fire Nova instead of Lava Lash, I think. I'd still be unhappy because of totem AI, but at least my single-target wouldn't be so intimately entwined with it.

Yea, it would be an improvement at least.

Totem AI will always be a problem. It's going to be worse now that feral spirits uses the same guardian AI that the totem does. So not only will the totem we always keep down to buff LL be unreliable, so will our main class cd. Improving guardian AI to have an assist stance better be on Blizz's to do list.

Oh, I don't doubt that it's useful, I'm just concerned that Blizzard will fail to design encounters that will allow us to really make use of our utility. It's far too often that Blizzard is like "Oh hey, kill all these adds! ... and they're immune to CC" or you have a fight where you're encouraged to mostly stand still or doesn't even have adds. (Ultraxion, Morchok, Baleroc, Majordomo)
At least these talents would have been useful on Beth'tilac and potentially Shannox.

I guess thats true. But most classes have one tier devoted to just PVP abilities that do stuff like snare, root, stun, fear ect. They will prob be situational in raids but if everyone got it then not a big deal.

At the very least it could reduce the CD on that new 5-minute CD totem.

One of the few things I'm looking forward to is that we finally get our delayed stun totem back.

On that note, Enhanced, have you tried out the new stunning totem yet?

Yea, thats a raid cd tho and even "call of elements" talent was designed to not reduce it, so prob wouldn't work. For our personal cds though it would.....and would def make MW5 top priority, and in the long run increase our DPS and put some value behind haste.

Theres a few vids out already showing the stun totem, pretty much like fire nova stun but longer stun and longer delay. Works pretty well with totem projection though, you can drop it as you run and then when you get to the enemy port it to you and it stuns everyone but they don't have time to react to kill it. Or used with egrab totem to root and then stun a big group of adds.

One negative of the totem compared to the old fire nova stun though is that before you could have FN totem and also grounding to help protect it, now the stun is also air element so thats no longer possible.

[TheThirdTry]

I'm not sure if dmg reducing talents stack, but can you check if Astral Shift stacks with Shamanistic Rage? Thanks.
And regarding Windwalk Totem and Spirit Walk, do they both work like a pvp trinket removing all movement impairing effects even while stunned?Thanks

[Radux]

Normally damage reduction things do stack, but multiplicatively.

[TheThirdTry]

Normally damage reduction things do stack, but multiplicatively.

Sorry what do you mean by multiplicatevely?

[Enhanced]

I believe its similar to such that say i take a 100k hit.
If i use Cooldown A to reduce 20% of the damage and Cooldown B to reduce 50% of the damage i would be only taking 30% of the hit or 30k.

[Endus]

I believe its similar to such that say i take a 100k hit.
If i use Cooldown A to reduce 20% of the damage and Cooldown B to reduce 50% of the damage i would be only taking 30% of the hit or 30k.

That's additive; 20% + 50% = 70% reduction.

Multiplicative basically applies one at a time; the first would reduce the damage 20% to 80k, the second would reduce the 80k by 50%, to 40k.

Most damage reduction in WoW is multiplicative, because this prevents you being able to stack % damage reduction to hit 100%.