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  1. #41
    The Patient OOMM's Avatar
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    I don't think this is intended (edit: legendary is bugged and giving huge amounts of fury) but I've cleaned up the rotation/priority some and managed to stay in Metamorphosis for over 6m from a pull starting at 200 fury. I didn't let Meta drop at 6m, I just made it all the way back up to 1000 fury and was tired of dpsing the dummy. My play was sloppy but not too bad.

    The key is a priority on fury generation: Auto attack, Corruption, Felguard, Hand of Gul'dan, with Wild Imps and Grimoire: Felguard helping to boost all the way back up when they come off cd. Dropping or delaying Shadowflame/Soulfire and using only Demonic Slash when below ~200 fury seems to be enough to stay in Meta since their Damage Per Execution Time/fury is lower than Slash's. Delaying Bane of Doom by a few seconds is a good idea too even though its DPET/fury is huge, it probably isn't worth it to fall out of Meta. Holding back Felstorm would work too.

    Since a single Hand of Gul'dan is only 3/4 the damage of our filler it might be best to let it stack back up in times of very high fury.

    Spell Fury Cost Execution Time Damage DPET DPET/fury
    Bane of Doom 90 1.3 333264 191531 2128
    Demonic Slash 40 1.3 19500 11206 280
    Soul Fire 110 1.74 47000 27011 246
    Shadowflame 100 1.3 34650 19914 199
    Felstorm 24 1 7218 4148 172
    Hand of Gul'dan
    +25
    1.3
    11450
    8304

    ^Note that all the tests above were in my 402 ilvl gear reforged for Mastery, with about 15% haste, and a Tarecgosa. I'm not sure how much this has to do with it, and I plan to run another test on the premade.
    -Soul Fire's fury cost has an added 10, 5 for each auto attack skipped.
    -Felstorm has a cost of 60 energy, the same cost as Legion Strike which grants 24 fury. Felstorm stops melee attacks too and single target makes it only a small dps gain. I need to test Voidwalker again, he does similar damage and superior fury generation. Would be fun to use a couple of them on single target fights since I haven't seen mine in a couple years.

    This video was made before I came to a lot of these conclusions and doesn't reflect the best methods, but it does show most of it.
    Last edited by OOMM; 2012-04-06 at 02:21 PM. Reason: not enough tables in this thread
    Using computers to make demons kill dragons. OQMM@kt-us.

  2. #42
    So either they need to tweak fury numbers, or (unless simcraft gives us alternate numbers that suggest otherwise) Meta will either be a quick burst form, or sustained damage? As in, we can either be in Meta for the whole fight, or use it to burst down things (adds or boss shield type skills) and go back into meta after regenerating some fury?

    Certainly makes for more of an interesting playstyle than people were fearing it would be (one rotation till Meta, second rotation till out of Meta, repeat)
    Last edited by Azithrom; 2012-04-06 at 07:18 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by HatsHatsHats View Post
    I was playing around last night on dummys and I could stay in meta for like 3 minutes before running out of fury, I would sometimes randomly get a full bar of fury and I'm not sure what causes it...
    I know the legendary staff messes something up with fury generation. Having the Shadowbolt Glyph (3 little ones) and the Legendary will fill up your bar whenever you proc the legendary on the shadowbolt cast.

    Perhaps it also has the same bug when we use the Shadowbolt replacement in meta.
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  4. #44
    The Patient OOMM's Avatar
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    Yes, its the legendary that gives way too much fury. I haven't figured out which part of it is broken, but I don't think its the Shadow Bolt glyph in my case since I had the same result with out it installed. But using a different staff and the same spell priority keeps me from ever making it above 500 fury on a pull starting at 200.



    Starting at 200 fury probably means falling out of Meta around 1m in to the fight. I run out of mana about 40 seconds later and switch back to Meta a little before Dark Soul and Grimoire of Service and Wild Imps come back up. This all seems barely sustainable since I get in to a mana and fury hole around 2m and 3m. Life Tap fixes this, but it will cause a need for healing and we might want to consider getting Dark Regeneration, Soul Leech, or Mortal Coil.

    Soul Leech seems to be the best choice but it seems to be bugged and not working at all. Without any external healing I go out of mana and hp around 4:30 into combat.

    Edit: Using a system of dropping out of Meta around 500 fury is a lot more sustainable, and actually a lot more fun. It's a lot to keep track of though and I'm not sure if it's more damage or not, that will require a bit of work to determine. For now I'm starting with 200 fury, using Wild Imps, getting to 1000 fury and using Meta with DS and G:Fg.
    Last edited by OOMM; 2012-04-06 at 05:33 PM.
    Using computers to make demons kill dragons. OQMM@kt-us.

  5. #45
    That's disappointing. Comparing logs visually, with legendary you're periodically getting 95~100 Fury, but it doesn't seem to line up at all with a Wrath of Tarecgosa, possibly a bug with Touch of Chaos or Demonic Slash that doesn't make it copied in logs, but grants large amounts of Fury?

    Edit: Closer inspection reveals it to be from Touch of Chaos, nothing apparently special about the Touches of Chaos it's associated with, some are critical hits, some are not. No obvious relation to damage dealt (various numbers resulting in both the normal gain of 5 and increased gain of 95-100)
    Last edited by Azithrom; 2012-04-06 at 04:30 PM.

  6. #46
    HoG seems useless, the damage is not worth the gcd even with 3 stacks ( a 45 sec cd ) maybe for DF regeneration but its damage sucks...

  7. #47
    In PvE it'd be for DF regeneration. The Grasp of Gul'dan effect wears off before a new charge is generated, enabling a 25 DF gain every 15 seconds

    Grasp of Gul'dan will likely change it's use in PvP given the stacking behaviour

  8. #48
    The Patient OOMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    HoG seems useless, the damage is not worth the gcd even with 3 stacks ( a 45 sec cd ) maybe for DF regeneration but its damage sucks...
    Hand of Gul'dan is still worth casting over Shadow Bolt and Demonic Slash because of its fury generation. Since it has become an AoE spell its single target damage has been reduced.
    Using computers to make demons kill dragons. OQMM@kt-us.

  9. #49
    I don't like the fact that blizz is trying to make demo more and more melee oriented with now adding a auto attack. I really hope this is changed before live.

  10. #50
    We were already rather melee oriented with Immolation Aura and Shadowflame

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Azithrom View Post
    We were already rather melee oriented with Immolation Aura and Shadowflame
    Yea I know that. That's why I said more.

  12. #52
    How much more can we get? With the inclusion of Meta transformation into Demonic Leap (provided they fix the random glitches that's been encountering), we'll have no reason we can't be in melee range except with fight mechanics dictating otherwise for positioning reasons (unless they start making fights designed to eschew usage of any melee)

  13. #53
    You're not convinced by the point of view that it assists in generation of our main resource? What -would- convince you then? It being an AoE, ergo less damage than the old single target version, is a PvP balance thing that Blizzard insists on focusing on, as well as a probably necessary PvE balance mechanism

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Azithrom View Post
    How much more can we get? With the inclusion of Meta transformation into Demonic Leap (provided they fix the random glitches that's been encountering), we'll have no reason we can't be in melee range except with fight mechanics dictating otherwise for positioning reasons (unless they start making fights designed to eschew usage of any melee)
    I just never really liked the feel of melee. It feels like you are chained to the boss if it moves. You have to always follow right behind it. Range feels more free and I like that, and I like demo so I would have preferred it to be ranged. Guess i'm just gonna have to look into affy and destro. A little disappointing.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Cultist View Post
    I don't like the fact that blizz is trying to make demo more and more melee oriented with now adding a auto attack. I really hope this is changed before live.
    If it helps, as far as can be told it's supposed to have 20y range, it just seems to be bugged currently. So not really melee.

  16. #56
    My character will randomly (but often) lose the ability to melee in meta until I log out and log back in. Anyone else experiencing this?

  17. #57
    The Patient OOMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    Not convinced by this kind of point of view, especially " HoG is an AoE ".... Demo design is not enjoyable.
    It is also instant and can be used on the move. The AoE can be used from ranged too, so fills a gap left by Rain of Fire. I'll admit the spell is a little weird in a lot of ways, but I don't mind it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 08:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockmaster View Post
    My character will randomly (but often) lose the ability to melee in meta until I log out and log back in. Anyone else experiencing this?
    Yes. Hand of Gul'dan doesn't target either sometimes. I don't know what causes it, but it hasn't happened that often.
    Using computers to make demons kill dragons. OQMM@kt-us.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    Instant = no Gcd
    Instants can have GCDs, Hand of Gul'dan. Usually buff instants and consumables don't trigger the GCD though.
    Last edited by OOMM; 2012-04-06 at 09:25 PM.
    Using computers to make demons kill dragons. OQMM@kt-us.

  19. #59
    Couple of things to note about Soul Fire: The long cast debuff is wiped if you hit a target under 25%, but bear in mind the spell has an 11k mana cost, where Life Tap will only return 20k (since mana at 85 is capped at 100k); you can reach a point where you'll need to Tap every 2nd or 3rd Soul Fire; I am not convinced that's happy times for a Decimation phase or healers.

  20. #60
    After a bit of testing, GoSac doesn't seem to be compensated at all for Demonology's Mastery, either in terms of Fury generation or damage from Mastery. GoService seems to be the better of the talents, thanks to Fury coming from the second Demon, it also feels like you get more time out of Meta if you pop Wild Imps and Service somewhere between 500 and 700 Fury; this would be as no Fury is wasted to over-capping.

    HoG is bugged at the moment though; while it definitely offers more Meta uptime and much faster Fury generation, it is too clunky in it's implementation with a reticule. It also bugs sometimes in Meta so you have to click off the target before you can cast.

    We're even more melee oriented now, since Shadowfury is also a Fury generator, but Touch of Chaos is also a melee ability in spite of what the tooltip says; it acts as an autoattack, so you need to right click the target or macro /attack to your spells to activate it.

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