If you Teleported From One Place To Another, Would you Still be the Same Person?

[golds]

If you consult quantum physics, we know that electrons can be in two places at once(which really makes no sense) Source: http://discovermagazine.com/2005/jun/cover


If we apply the same logic (and much more advanced technology) into a teleportation device, we come across a strange question.


If we had a machine that can snap shot your every molecules and rebuild them into a different place(teleportation) would you still be there same person?



Even more fun to ponder: If we used that teleporter as a cloning devices and created two exactly identical(to the very last brain cell and atoms) would those two persons be the same person?

[obdigore]

That is how 'star trek' does their transporter, iirc.

Anyway, no, I don't think so. It is a perfect clone including all your experiences that then has a life, meanwhile your life ended.

And those two persons would be the same person only until they each had the tiniest fragment of time difference in their memory or experiences. Then their personalities and experiences would start to diverge, making them view each and every new decision differently.

[Larynx]

You would be dead, and an exact copy of you with the same memories would be in your place. Your consciousness would no longer exist, and it would be replaced by a consciousness that thinks it is you.

And a fun fact, we have teleported photons already.

[Imadraenei]

You would be dead, and an exact copy of you with the same memories would be in your place. Your consciousness would no longer exist, and it would be replaced by a consciousness that thinks it is you.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc. That "exact copy" is, in fact, you. The only time there might be a discrepency is if the "original" isn't destroyed as the "copy" is created, i.e., there are now two "yous".

[golds]

Which me of me would I be if there were two copies?

[Larynx]

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc. That "exact copy" is, in fact, you. The only time there might be a discrepency is if the "original" isn't destroyed as the "copy" is created, i.e., there are now two "yous".

Except that isn't the case here. It's an exact copy of me. It is not me.

---------- Post added 2012-04-02 at 01:28 AM ----------

Which me of me would I be if there were two copies?

The original.

[chewie49]

if the idea is that each electron that makes you up has a twin somewhere then all you're doing is aligning your twins parts the way you are aligned...which makes me wonder if doing so actually would tear you apart or just leave you as is and simply make a twin of yourself somewhere

[Deleted]

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc. That "exact copy" is, in fact, you. The only time there might be a discrepency is if the "original" isn't destroyed as the "copy" is created, i.e., there are now two "yous".

That's philosophy/metaphysics (don't be fooled by the name!), not physics.

It's not you, it's an identical copy of you. To an outside observer they appear the same but if you make an exact copy of an item and destroy the original the original would still be destroyed (and if you were the original object then you would be dead, there would be an exact copy of you walking around thinking it was you but YOU would still be dead).

Then there's the Star Trek approach to this which I seriously doubt can be applied IRL, the in-universe explanation of transporters is that the actual matter a person or an object is comprised of is converted into an energy stream which is then reassembled as matter at the target location (i.e. the same matter in a different place, meaning it's still you you and not clone you).

[Imadraenei]

Except that isn't the case here. It's an exact copy of me. It is not me.

---------- Post added 2012-04-02 at 01:28 AM ----------



The original.

Except that it is. Teleportation involves taking a set of particles and transferring their exact properties (sans position) to another set of particles at a distant location. You may argue philosophically that the set of particles receiving the imprint is not you, but for all practical purposes the "copy" is just as real as the "real" you "was".

if the idea is that each electron that makes you up has a twin somewhere then all you're doing is aligning your twins parts the way you are aligned...which makes me wonder if doing so actually would tear you apart or just leave you as is and simply make a twin of yourself somewhere

I don't even know what this says.

[Larynx]

Except that it is. Teleportation involves taking a set of particles and transferring their exact properties (sans position) to another set of particles at a distant location. You may argue philosophically that the set of particles receiving the imprint is not you, but for all practical purposes the "copy" is just as real as the "real" you "was".

Sure it is. It's just not me because the entire process involves destroying the particles that make me up. And I don't know about you, but to me that means I'm dead.

[Deleted]

Except that it is. Teleportation involves taking a set of particles and transferring their exact properties (sans position) to another set of particles at a distant location. You may argue philosophically that the set of particles receiving the imprint is not you, but for all practical purposes the "copy" is just as real as the "real" you "was".

A copy is not the original even if it is exactly identical.

[Larynx]

http://bigthink.com/ideas/24634 this video I found pretty much sums up my opinion.

Sort of anyway. But it's definitely relevant to this thread.

[TheWerebison]

I remember this in a Michael Crichton book. Not that a fiction novel is a great place for hard facts, but the man was very smart, did lots of research, and sounded like he knew what he was talking about.

As I understood it, it is not you, it is just someone that is almost exactly like you in every way. The new you would be different in such a small way as to be probably unnoticeable. Maybe your beard grows in .0006% slower.

[Tradewind]

Sure it is. It's just not me because the entire process involves destroying the particles that make me up. And I don't know about you, but to me that means I'm dead.

Except that you're still only the sum of your parts. If broken down to individual electrons, protons, et al you become completely indistinguishable from any other electron or proton. It's the specific construction and arrangement of those particles that create the individual. If your copy is an absolutely identical composition of those most basic particles, you are the same person in every measurable way.

[Larynx]

Except that you're still only the sum of your parts. If broken down to individual electrons, protons, et al you become completely indistinguishable from any other electron or proton. It's the specific construction and arrangement of those particles that create the individual. If your copy is an absolutely identical composition of those most basic particles, you are the same person in every measurable way.

And you would be correct. There is no measurable difference between myself and the copy. Even down to the individual subatomic particles, everything is the same.

The problem with this discussion is that it's debating something that isn't understood and not even science.

[frogger237]

A really good movie with teleportation in it, I don't want to spoil it for anyone so I wont say much but one character does indeed wonder if he is the original or the one that ports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prestige_(film)

[Providence]

Except that you're still only the sum of your parts. If broken down to individual electrons, protons, et al you become completely indistinguishable from any other electron or proton. It's the specific construction and arrangement of those particles that create the individual. If your copy is an absolutely identical composition of those most basic particles, you are the same person in every measurable way.

consider this. When you are born with an identical twin, you have the exact same DNA. suppose you had the exact same memories. Suppose YOU are destroyed, but your twin is still alive. there still may be a 'you' to everyone else, but YOU are dead.

[Imadraenei]

A copy is not the original even if it is exactly identical.

Perhaps I'm just thinking too practically compared to you, then. You've got Me, then teleporting creates Me-Prime. Me-Prime has all of Me's memories, genetic data, and non-genetic physical characteristics (i.e. that scar from the bike accident, that blue dot you claim was a tattoo of the Earth from really far away). Me no longer exists, and everything that exists about Me-Prime leads Me-Prime to believe he is Me. As far as Me-Prime is concerned, his stream of consciousness never has a break between Me and Me-Prime's life. Combine this with the goal of teleportation (transporting something across very long distances in very short time spans) and I see no reason not to simply refer to Me-Prime as Me.

EDIT: It's all semantics. We don't fire up Pandora and talk about how it plays a copy of a recording of a performance of a reading of the text and notation of the song Bad Romance, although that would be more technical.

[Larynx]

Perhaps I'm just thinking too practically compared to you, then. You've got Me, then teleporting creates Me-Prime. Me-Prime has all of Me's memories, genetic data, and non-genetic physical characteristics (i.e. that scar from the bike accident, that blue dot you claim was a tattoo of the Earth from really far away). Me no longer exists, and everything that exists about Me-Prime leads Me-Prime to believe he is Me. As far as Me-Prime is concerned, his stream of consciousness never has a break between Me and Me-Prime's life. Combine this with the goal of teleportation (transporting something across very long distances in very short time spans) and I see no reason not to simply refer to Me-Prime as Me.

But "Me" no longer exists. And you are "Me". Therefore, you no longer exist. "Me"'s consciousness ended the moment it was destroyed.

[Tradewind]

consider this. When you are born with an identical twin, you have the exact same DNA. suppose you had the exact same memories. Suppose YOU are destroyed, but your twin is still alive. there still may be a 'you' to everyone else, but YOU are dead.

But you aren't actually the same. Yes your genes are shared, you may share physical and even mental traits as a result of it. But you are not the same person on a base elements level. You are never the same, not once, not ever. A twin is not an exact duplicate when it comes to the atomic level, and definitely not when you count it all up.

Also you're talking two separate individuals, lets go with the assumption that sure at a completely atomic level you are identical...there is still two of you, people know that...it's absurd to suggest that nobody would notice if you died.