1. #1

    [Holy] Differences in 10 and 25?

    I have been looking at logs recently of high end 25 man guilds, and 10 mans, to see how there holy paladins do, and what spells they seem to prefer where and all that jazz, and I have noticed in 10 mans that paladins seem to be on top most of the time, while on 25 disc priests/druids tend to be passing them.

    I have not done any 25 man heroics this entire expansion on my holy paladin, I was wondering if anyone that has done both could perhaps tell me how different the healing is in 10 and 25 man? Is it just that the paladins are expected to tank heal more and not spam radiance during aoe? Or is there something more to it?

  2. #2
    well i have done both 10 man and 25 man DS hc (6/8) and the last two bosses only 25hc, but have killed in on my alt on 10m but will tell you how the pala should heal there ...
    i will split it into parts for each boss but remmember this counts for heroic (as i hadnt healed normals for a while)
    Morchok: 10: after each stomp, fast radiance + LoD -> then single heal ppl back up (solo healing one side)
    25: depends on your healing setup - mostly focus on tank healing after stomp and then just radiating when crystals explode until next stomp
    Yorsahj: 10 and 25 are pretty much same, you focus on healing one group if purple is up, otherwise aoe healing
    Zonoz: 10 and 25 same, aoe till the phase 2, then poping cd and divine healing them back up, rinse and repeat
    Hagara: nothing much to heal there, just focus on ppl getting hit by shards and rotating cd for assault,
    10: frost phase easy, nothing to heal just focus on dispels, lightning phase - you get assigned 3 ppl to heal them up - divine spam with cd up
    25: my guild uses the strat with standing in the middle and aoe healing the frost phase, lightning you form the chain and radiance heal the ppl up (on 3 targets radiance> divine)
    Ultraxion: 10: easy and short fight, you can solo heal it
    25: before the nerfs the enrage timer was pretty hard, a few healers had to dps for a few minutes (disco priests/shamans say hi ), otherwise heave aoe heal fight 10/25 pretty much the same healing pattern
    Warmaster: paladins usually heal the tanks in p2, in p1 - make sure nobody dies, rotate cd for onslaghts and aoe heal the ppl fast up
    Spine: 10/25 same healing pattern, single heal the debuffs, when the amalg explodes - aoe heal, in the end just focus on healing tanks (lots of bloods there)
    Madness: 10: Single target heal ppl/tank, when killing the arms, spam aoe heal,
    25: most of the time i spend spamming radiance/shock/lod, the tanks are kept up by hots/shaman shields/beacons, in the last phase when the big adds spawn - switch to divine spam the tanks, after - get back to radiance


    generally said: in 25 mans, when there is some aoe dmg, thanks to having more healers you are able to aoe heal with them and keep tanks up only with shields/hots/beacons and time to time some direct heal, but when a heavy tank dmg phase hits - you have to make sure they are alive (but usually more heals spam them - warmaster p2 at the end, spine at the end, madness in p2), but you get more room while in 10 mans there are 2/3 healers and your job is to make sure the tanks dont die and then you can heal the others, cause in 10 man raid your radiance isnt as powerfull as in 25 man and you wont be getting many hots/shields on the tanks
    hope this was helpful
    Last edited by hokaido; 2012-04-03 at 12:54 PM.

  3. #3
    The 25m are by far more AoE healing heavy so of course the AoE Healers are going to be out-HPSing you.

  4. #4
    Shamans are amazing in 25m and in 10 they are pretty terrible, Paladins pretty much just spam HR and you will be fine. Pretty sure I could only use HR on a 8/8h clear and would be totally fine.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Clemery View Post
    The 25m are by far more AoE healing heavy so of course the AoE Healers are going to be out-HPSing you.
    Here are the aggregate numbers for healing specs for all parses from 10 and 25 man heroics.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...fault/#1u00000

    10 Heroic:
    1. Paladin 17,214
    2. Druid 16,865
    3. Disc Priest 16,355
    4. Holy Priest 15,542
    5. Shaman 15,036

    25 Heroic
    1. Paladin 21,092
    2. Holy Priest 20,691
    3. Druid 20,354
    4. Disc Priest 18,521
    5. Shaman 18,248

    Paladins are the top overall healer in both 10 man and 25 man. Paladins also are AoE healers; in stacked raid situations like most of DS is - paladin AoE healing is the strongest AoE healing in the game. Holy Radiance is extremely strong in 25 man; while less strong in 10 man, the power of things like Beacon and Protector of the Innocent on smaller raid sizes keeps them on top.

    Shaman are the lowest throughput healers in both raid sizes; their strength is SLT being game breakingly OP on some fights and the extra throughput mana tide gives everyone else. The other three specs bounce back and forth but are very close.

    However, the reality is there is only a 12-13% difference in throughput between the 5 healing specs from top to bottom. This is as balanced as it's ever really been. With such small differences, player skill and assignments comes into play more than anything, so it isn't that surprising to see a resto shaman outheal a holy paladin for example. However, paladins don't have anything to complain about in either raid format, or any justification aside from how well they play and possibly assignments for getting outhealed by another healing spec.

  6. #6
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    possibly assignments
    Yeah if a raid leader is giving assignments, all comparison of HPS/Healing Done becomes irrelevant and further WoL breakdown is required.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    Yeah if a raid leader is giving assignments, all comparison of HPS/Healing Done becomes irrelevant and further WoL breakdown is required.
    It doesn't become irrelevant, because a measure of healer skill is knowing when you can safely go off assignment and help with other assignments and maximizing your output outside of the realm of the basic requirements/expectations (keeping your assigned groups/tank alive). There are very few fights and situations (Yor'sahj purple is one that comes to mind) where you need to strictly follow an assignment.

  8. #8
    25 man, you can blindly spam holy radiance.
    10 man, you have to use some different spells every once in a while.

  9. #9
    The Patient Piitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natijs4 View Post
    25 man, you can blindly spam holy radiance.
    10 man, you have to use some different spells every once in a while.
    Yea or not, you have clearly only played LFR on 25m mode.

  10. #10
    I've played both 10 and 25, where as 25 is cleared at hc. I can say it's alot about your assignment, but even then you tend to use HR alot.

    Morchok hc: HR & LoD occasionally burst on tank with DL or FoL (Haste).
    Zon'ozz hc: HR & LoD occasionally burst on soakers (Haste).
    Yor'Sahj hc: HR & LoD. On purple: DL & HL on pets (Haste).
    Hagara hc: HR @ frost - FoL's and HL on people in reach @ lightning (Haste).
    Ultraxion hc: Need i say? HR & LoD, when blue crystal is achieved, HR only (Mastery).
    Blackhorn hc: FoL & HL, occasionally DL's. HR & LoD @ onslaught soaks. P2, HR & DL's if needed on tanks. FoL on lowdrops (Haste).
    Spine hc: HR if 4+ Searing Plasmas else HL/DL (Crit).
    Madness hc: HR & LoD @ Melees, stacking IH shields on impales with DL/WoG (Mastery).

    I'm sure there is several other playstyles, this is mine.
    Last edited by iddqdq; 2012-04-05 at 01:29 PM.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Tutorial's Avatar
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    Played both on Heroic (8/8)

    I myself prefer 10M healing as it seems to be alot more demanding.
    25M was ridiculously easy, mainly because you only have 5 targets to heal (Asuming you are healing a group) and a tank every now and then.

    I was on top on quite some fights in 25M as well, except for fights such as Warlord and Warmaster, which is clearly a fight where Paladins are outhealed by just 'bout any class that can heal multiple targets without the need to stack.

    In 10M, I am on top 9 out of 10 times and a mile ahead on AoE fights. (Heroic Yor'sahj and Ultraxion is lulzy as Holydin)
    -||My "Holy" Paladin.||-
    -||[Equilibrium||- My Guildwars 2 Guild.

    Hated by many, confronted by none.

  12. #12
    In 10 mans your spell choice is more varied, in 25 mans you spam radiance +90% of the time - 8/8 heroic experience in both modes.

  13. #13
    short list: In 10 man paladins win because we burst heal like hell with our heals and we can toss a few aoe heals from time to time, in 25 man there are more ppl to heal ie, the aoe healing classes tops the healing chars because holy paladins cant keep up with that amount of aoe healing

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Adabel View Post
    the aoe healing classes tops the healing chars because holy paladins cant keep up with that amount of aoe healing
    Have you played a paladin since cata? With nearly every fight being stacked they do amazing aoe healing. Depending on your strats the only fights i could see being problematic for them is maybe black phase Zonozz since people are more spread out (in 10 man - 25 man its less of an issue since there are still plenty to aoe heal) and Hagara while running (if you run).

    For most fights in DS, pally aoe healing is awesome.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Adabel View Post
    in 25 man there are more ppl to heal ie
    This is precisely why paladins tend to top meters at most fights where there's alot of aoe healing.

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