Interesting Gamespy article

[Tarien]

MMO Remorse: 5 Online Games That Would've Been Better Off as Single-Player Experiences

A very interesting read, and from what little I played of SWTOR not a completely unfair opinion especially given it's present condition (1.2 not withstanding).

What do you guys think, should SWTOR perhaps have been KOTOR 3 with an online element as the article suggests? Or do you think in time SWTOR will turn itself around (if it needs to at all)?

[Hellfury]

But ppl can play SWTOR as single player, and face level 50 and the end of class quests as "gameover", "the end", "lived happy ever after".

For those that want to continue there are more content.

[KvanCetre]

This would have been a terrible single player game, actually.

Edit: The more I think about it... how is TOR any different from WoW in this case? Because TOR actually has a somewhat coherent story line and WoW would be incredibly boring to play solo?

[SirRobin]

I think the game would have been more universally praised, by us finicky types, if it was a single-player game from the start. Making it an MMORPG was a huge gamble that may or may not pay off.

[Tarien]

This would have been a terrible single player game, actually.

IF you shipped it as is, of course. But I think that the assumption is that rather than invest all the development time in MMO type systems, they would have gone into RPG systems instead.

You have to admit than an RPG with several different classes and both factions playable is quite an appealing idea.

I guess maybe the question could also be, would you rather have had BioWare create KOTOR 3 or something like it. Might be a silly question to ask in the SWTOR forum though

[quras]

But ppl can play SWTOR as single player, and face level 50 and the end of class quests as "gameover", "the end", "lived happy ever after".

For those that want to continue there are more content.

Pretty much this. Like most mmos you can do so much solo and if you want, you can still group. I'd call that the best of both worlds buts what's better is the swtor content is still being created, were going to get more sooner. Unlike most single player games.

Swtor does have a very strong solo aspect but the end content is still good and more is coming. More will always be coming as thats what players expect for their monthly fee.

Swtor currently has no need to turn around. It's doing very well even though it has some problems. Being to much a solo player game is not one of them

[Dakia]

This would have been a terrible single player game, actually.

Edit: The more I think about it... how is TOR any different from WoW in this case? Because TOR actually has a somewhat coherent story line and WoW would be incredibly boring to play solo?

I feel the same way. My personal opinion is that any mmo could be seen as a single player experience. You can level the entire way to maximum level and never interact with anyone if you so wish.

Usually what I hear in response to this is that TOR is a SP game due to the player development and the fact that you progress through your own personal story, not the story of the world like in a game like WoW (just as an example). I don't see why a game should be knocked as being a single player game instead of a MMO simply because the devs put more in to character development than a general world lore. The lore of Star Wars is already pretty much written.

[SirRobin]

I recall from Beta that the phrase "best single-player mmorpg I've ever played" was used. My experiences in-game mostly supported that statement.

[Tarien]

I feel the same way. My personal opinion is that any mmo could be seen as a single player experience. You can level the entire way to maximum level and never interact with anyone if you so wish.

I am not sure that even on SWTORs best day that I would compare it to a game like KOTOR, Mass Effect or any other great single player RPG in terms of the single player experience. Yes SWTOR has an amazing levelling experience, but that is not the same thing as being a great single player game.

Just wanted to say that to clarify what I mean and I think the article means.

[Dakia]

I am not sure that even on SWTORs best day that I would compare it to a game like KOTOR, Mass Effect or any other great single player RPG in terms of the single player experience. Yes SWTOR has an amazing levelling experience, but that is not the same thing as being a great single player game.

Just wanted to say that to clarify what I mean and I think the article means.

Oh, I agree. To be clear, this isn't something that I'm getting directly from the article. This is a criticism that I have heard for quite some time.

[OhpUldum]

I recall from Beta that the phrase "best single-player mmorpg I've ever played" was used. My experiences in-game mostly supported that statement.

I am one of the people that say that actually still. With the advent of patch 1.2, implementation of a group queue system, and well I plan to reroll on patch 1.2 release I look forward to injecting some more MMO into this game.

The future is bright for the game.

[Deleted]

I am one of the people that say that actually still. With the advent of patch 1.2, implementation of a group queue system, and well I plan to reroll on patch 1.2 release I look forward to injecting some more MMO into this game.

The future is bright for the game.

It is if it doesn't get mired in all the hate(especially the illogical stuff) directed towards the game. If they can get a handle on the raid difficulty, merge the server populations where necessary and, assuming it is still necessary implement even a loosely robust LFG system then the game will be pretty solid.

As for the article it fails massively in understanding how the goals of an MMO differ to that of a single player game. Hell even the PVP vs PVE issues in MMOs make it pretty evident that if developers set out with more stringent guidelines they would end up with a considerably different game. Single player games are limited in ways that MMOs aren't and vice versa. The most notable thing to discourage developers from producing any sort of "massively multiplayer" game is the costs involved.

[Tarien]

I am one of the people that say that actually still.

Really? I do find it a little odd that people proclaim the best part of this Massively Multiplayer game to be it's single player aspects. Does that not support the idea that perhaps BioWare should have just made a single player RPG (or a co-op one)?

With the advent of patch 1.2, implementation of a group queue system, and well I plan to reroll on patch 1.2 release I look forward to injecting some more MMO into this game.

The future is bright for the game.

Not to derail my own thread, but what is in 1.2 makes you want to reroll? I certainly hope that the games prospects lift a little, there is certainly a lot of (dare I say warranted?) negativity surrounding SWTOR's launch. Though, what MMO launch is considered successful these days living in WoWs shadow?

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 12:24 AM ----------

The most notable thing to discourage developers from producing any sort of "massively multiplayer" game is the costs involved.

I would say that it is the fickle nature of players and how their perception of the game immediately following launch is the sole hurdle. I have no doubt that if virtually every single MMO launched in the last five years had had 6-12months more development time for testing, polish, bug fixing, quality of life features and above all more content, then WoW wouldn't still be towering over every other MMO.

Cash isn't really an issue, upon the launch of every MMO as long as it is half decent a million boxes are sold recouping most of the development costs. Take RIFT for example, sold a million boxes a few months after launch, and ten month's in they've doubled their money. MMO's are profitable even when they don't 'kill WoW'.

[Sidequests]

APB
APB didnt fail in the concept, it fail because money was tremendously wasted and when it didnt make back at launch it was abandoned.
Adding an eight hour run-around wasnt going to change the result, the core of the game is multiplayer.

Final Fantasy XIV
The only reason this is being said is because this series is mostly single player RPGs.
The game was built to be played with a bunch of people and there is absolutely no way to simply switch this to an RPG.

I didnt play the other two games so i cant comment.
TOR is like the opposite of APB, the core seems to be a single player game and they just added a some multiplayer on the side.
Out of all the game this can be the most easily turned into a single player game.

Now this doesnt mean it shouldn't be an MMO i'm just saying that this would be the easiest.

[SirRobin]

Now this doesnt mean it shouldn't be an MMO i'm just saying that this would be the easiest.

Indeed, the only ones on that list I agree with are FF and TOR. The rest should have been, maybe even deserved to be, better mmorpg's but suffered from insurmountable flaws in development and or management.

[ZeroWashu]

This would have been a terrible single player game, actually.

Edit: The more I think about it... how is TOR any different from WoW in this case? Because TOR actually has a somewhat coherent story line and WoW would be incredibly boring to play solo?

It has all the hallmarks of being a single player game that merely had mmo parts grafted on.

[Waniou]

Yeah, I only played a few levels of ToR (I think, 4 on a Jedi and about 7 on a Trooper) and I felt like I was playing a single player game with lolmmokill8ofthoseguys quests. The story was pretty cool from what I saw, but it was a story for a single player game, not for an MMO.

[BrerBear]

Cash isn't really an issue, upon the launch of every MMO as long as it is half decent a million boxes are sold recouping most of the development costs. Take RIFT for example, sold a million boxes a few months after launch, and ten month's in they've doubled their money. MMO's are profitable even when they don't 'kill WoW'.

Although I don't dispute your overall point, a million boxes would bring in only $40-50 million after expenses, and only if that was while the game was still being sold at full price. And I don't recall RIFT doubling its money. It got more *investment*, but that's like saying getting another loan is doubling your money.

The cost of launching an MMO is higher than most people realize.

[Tarien]

Although I don't dispute your overall point, a million boxes would bring in only $40-50 million after expenses, and only if that was while the game was still being sold at full price. And I don't recall RIFT doubling its money. It got more *investment*, but that's like saying getting another loan is doubling your money.

The cost of launching an MMO is higher than most people realize.

RIFT cost around fifty million dollars to make, and a couple months ago announced that they passed the $100mil mark for income from box sales and subs.

Though I appreciate SWTOR cos significantly more to make. But they also sold more boxes.

[Sumatran]

Sweet another thread that

A.) does nothing but bring people in to trash the game

B.) does nothing but invite SWTOR vs. (GAME) comments.


Love how the rules are inforced here.

Since a couple mods have already decided to add to debacle Im just gonna leave this here

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e-here-Threads

User received a private message regarding this post. Please do not discuss moderation in threads. Report a post and move on or if you do need to discuss moderation then private message a mod. -Cula