Family torn apart by Suspected Child Abuse

[RyanEX]

http://gma.yahoo.com/rare-disease-mi...ws-health.html


Couldn't find a thread for this already.

So is this really the way Child Services works?

Doctors that immediately jump to the Abuse conclusion calling the Services AND allowing the media access to records. Knowing how the media blows things out of proportion for ratings?

[hellosaltygoodness]

i don't really see why you are outraged? clearly if a baby is taken to the hospital with 11 broken bones, the baby should be removed from the house immediately. if the father hadn't murdered his wife and then himself, the charges against him would have been dropped and he could have had his daughter back. its hard to feel that much sympathy for him, i feel sympathy for his wife though.

[semaphore]

Doctors don't call Child Services because they "jump" to the conclusion, they do it because they are obligated to report all signs of child abuse. A baby with 11 broken bones is a strong indicator of abuse and the authories should know. The fact that in this case it was a "rare" genetic disease tells us that it was entirely reasonable to suspect abuse.

That the father snapped and committed a murder-suicide is a tragedy, but 11 broken bones is a giant red flag and calling social services was the right thing to do. And really, they confirmed it wasn't abuse within a few weeks anyway. It is unfortunate that apparently there is not enough awareness of the disease so that no one discovered the condition until it is too late. However, ultimately I can't excuse the father for murdering his wife.

I don't know how the media obtained the records but I doubt doctors actually allowed them. I'm more inclined to think that the newspaper paid someone to steal it. Either way, from google it seems that the media reports only started after the murder-suicide.

[Taygete]

Clearly there needs to be some outreach done to make people more aware of this disease. Yes, doctors have an obligation to report things to social services, but they should also be well versed on things like this that can mimic signs of child abuse. It's important to know the difference. Child Protective Services in this country is a dangerously flawed system. In theory it should be something that exists to protect children in danger, or to help families in need, but it's extremely stressful work to begin with and it's seriously underfunded.

[RyanEX]

Doctors don't call Child Services because they "jump" to the conclusion, they do it because they are obligated to report all signs of child abuse. A baby with 11 broken bones is a strong indicator of abuse and the authories should know. The fact that in this case it was a "rare" genetic disease tells us that it was entirely reasonable to suspect abuse.

That the father snapped and committed a murder-suicide is a tragedy, but 11 broken bones is a giant red flag and calling social services was the right thing to do. And really, they confirmed it wasn't abuse within a few weeks anyway. It is unfortunate that apparently there is not enough awareness of the disease so that no one discovered the condition until it is too late. However, ultimately I can't excuse the father for murdering his wife.

I don't know how the media obtained the records but I doubt doctors actually allowed them. I'm more inclined to think that the newspaper paid someone to steal it. Either way, from google it seems that the media reports only started after the murder-suicide.

Seemed like overkill to me. One, two, maybe even three broken bones would definetly send up redflags. But ELEVEN? And on an infant?

I think that while they might've contacted the police to question the parents they should've also looked into other possible causes. Seems like the docs were just lazy. They saw something wrong and just jumped to the most plausible cause without thinking of looking for another reason.

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 02:48 PM ----------

i don't really see why you are outraged? clearly if a baby is taken to the hospital with 11 broken bones, the baby should be removed from the house immediately. if the father hadn't murdered his wife and then himself, the charges against him would have been dropped and he could have had his daughter back. its hard to feel that much sympathy for him, i feel sympathy for his wife though.

ELEVEN bones. Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? To me it seems that a beating of that level would've most likely killed the infant as well as breaking the bones. And of course he was depressed. Yes the charges might've been dropped. But this a stigma that sticks with you for your entire life. Everyone'll be wondering "Did he really do it."

It's like being accused of rape and then later the charges being dropped. You know you're innocent. Your accuser knows your innocent. But everyone will always wonder.

[semaphore]

Seemed like overkill to me. One, two, maybe even three broken bones would definetly send up redflags. But ELEVEN? And on an infant?

I don't understand this logic. One broken bone is a red flag, but eleven suddenly shouldn't be? Have you read about child abuse cases, and the horrific injuries those infants sustained before they died, because the authorities were did not act fast enough?

I think that while they might've contacted the police to question the parents they should've also looked into other possible causes. Seems like the docs were just lazy. They saw something wrong and just jumped to the most plausible cause without thinking of looking for another reason.

It's easy to call them lazy after they figured out what was wrong and you read their findings off a random news article. Diagnosing rare medical conditions is not so easy in real life. They most likely did look into other possible causes and just didn't find it. Without proof that this wasn't child abuse, it is entirely unethical to not report it.

You are still treating it as though the doctors decided it is child abuse first. Again, they are obligated to report all possible signs. It doesn't matter what they think, unless they can rule it out they have to, and they should, report it. Well, at least they are in most places. Imagine if a real abuse victim was brought into the hospital, and instead of immediately taking steps to protect the child, the doctors just assumed it isn't abuse and let the parents take the infant home. Then in a few weeks we'd be getting outrged about the baby having gotten beaten to death instead.

That's why all signs of potential abuse has to be reported.

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 03:02 PM ----------

ELEVEN bones. Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? To me it seems that a beating of that level would've most likely killed the infant as well as breaking the bones.

Not really, no.

And of course he was depressed. Yes the charges might've been dropped. But this a stigma that sticks with you for your entire life. Everyone'll be wondering "Did he really do it."

He wasn't even charged. No one will be wondering about it because no one would have known - and had he waited for a few days he'd have genetic evidence on this hands to prove their innocence. But no, instead he murdered his wife. This is NOTHING like a rape accusation that got dropped without indisputable evidence (and even then plenty of people would be on his side).

[Maelle]

If the doctor hadn't reported it, sent the child home and it had later been proven to be abuse, they could have lost a career and also had the harm / death of an infant on their conscience.

They did the only right thing they could have done in the circumstances, I think some people on this thread have been watching a bit too much House MD.

[Jodah]

I don't have a problem with separating the child from it's parents but there needs to be some forum to plead innocence on the part of the parents. Right now the only way, in most states, is to go to family court which often takes months at best to get to the first court date. It should not take that long for the parents to get their chance to say "Hey, we didn't do this. We brought the child to the hospital because we were worried."

[RyanEX]

I don't understand this logic. One broken bone is a red flag, but eleven suddenly shouldn't be? Have you read about child abuse cases, and the horrific injuries those infants sustained before they died, because the authorities were did not act fast enough?



It's easy to call them lazy after they figured out what was wrong and you read their findings off a random news article. Diagnosing rare medical conditions is not so easy in real life. They most likely did look into other possible causes and just didn't find it. Without proof that this wasn't child abuse, it is entirely unethical to not report it.

You are still treating it as though the doctors decided it is child abuse first. Again, they are obligated to report all possible signs. It doesn't matter what they think, unless they can rule it out they have to, and they should, report it. Well, at least they are in most places. Imagine if a real abuse victim was brought into the hospital, and instead of immediately taking steps to protect the child, the doctors just assumed it isn't abuse and let the parents take the infant home. Then in a few weeks we'd be getting outrged about the baby having gotten beaten to death instead.

That's why all signs of potential abuse has to be reported.

---------- Post added 2012-04-06 at 03:02 PM ----------


Not really, no.



He wasn't even charged. No one will be wondering about it because no one would have known - and had he waited for a few days he'd have genetic evidence on this hands to prove their innocence. But no, instead he murdered his wife. This is NOTHING like a rape accusation that got dropped without indisputable evidence (and even then plenty of people would be on his side).

Riddle me this then. How could someone give a 3 month old baby ELEVEN broken bones without any form of bruising.

Also, a both parents were RESPECTED police officers they would've known how it would've looked if they brought in a child like that. And I don't knock the docs for reporting the issues. I know that it's a necessity.

But as per the norm, instead of innocent till proven guilty everyone assumed the opposite. it seems like everyone wants to be the next person to find someone doing something they find morally wrong.

Look at someone a few shades lighter/darker than yourself funny = racist.
See a mother/father give a rambuctious child a light slap on backside = child abuse.

Hell I didn't know it was so bad that children could accuse their own parents of child abuse if said parent spanked the child.

[Noomz]

http://gma.yahoo.com/rare-disease-mi...ws-health.html


Couldn't find a thread for this already.

So is this really the way Child Services works?

Doctors that immediately jump to the Abuse conclusion calling the Services AND allowing the media access to records. Knowing how the media blows things out of proportion for ratings?

If the case was in any way a greyzone, it would be too much. But I feel that a child with 11 broken bones is not a greyzone.

[Kittahsmash]

Further proof showing that this country has undeniably changed from:
Innocent until proven guilty
to
Guilty, now prove your innocence.

[Noomz]

Riddle me this then. How could someone give a 3 month old baby ELEVEN broken bones without any form of bruising.

Also, a both parents were RESPECTED police officers they would've known how it would've looked if they brought in a child like that. And I don't knock the docs for reporting the issues. I know that it's a necessity.

But as per the norm, instead of innocent till proven guilty everyone assumed the opposite. it seems like everyone wants to be the next person to find someone doing something they find morally wrong.

Look at someone a few shades lighter/darker than yourself funny = racist.
See a mother/father give a rambuctious child a light slap on backside = child abuse.

Hell I didn't know it was so bad that children could accuse their own parents of child abuse if said parent spanked the child.

People love to "White Knight" on things. People love to think they are righteouss, and will always jump to conclussions before caring to investigate, because people are full of shit.
Spanking is always abuse. There is no excuse for it. Only the ignorant resort to such things. There's a reason most of the civilized world forbids it by law.

[Xeones]

Further proof showing that this country has undeniably changed from:
Innocent until proven guilty
to
Guilty, now prove your innocence.

Baby has broken bones and is taken into custody for it's own saftey. How were people supposed to know what was wrong with the child until the doctors ran tests? These kind of claims are terrible. The right thing was done then the father goes nuts and does a murder suicide? Something was clearly going on.

[Deleted]

Baby has broken bones and is taken into custody for it's own saftey. How were people supposed to know what was wrong with the child until the doctors ran tests? These kind of claims are terrible. The right thing was done then the father goes nuts and does a murder suicide? Something was clearly going on.

11 broken bones without any noticeable skin bruising, does not point towards child abuse. I am only mildly interested in medicine, and even i can tell you, that is a sign of cancer, more than anything.

[Jodah]

Baby has broken bones and is taken into custody for it's own saftey. How were people supposed to know what was wrong with the child until the doctors ran tests? These kind of claims are terrible. The right thing was done then the father goes nuts and does a murder suicide? Something was clearly going on.

He probably snapped because the media blew it out of proportion and all of his co-workers on the police force were ostracizing him.

[semaphore]

Riddle me this then. How could someone give a 3 month old baby ELEVEN broken bones without any form of bruising.

No one said there wasn't, and I don't see how this is relevant anyway.

But as per the norm, instead of innocent till proven guilty everyone assumed the opposite. it seems like everyone wants to be the next person to find someone doing something they find morally wrong.

No one assumed that.

You said you don't blame the doctors (AFTER implictly blaming them twice) then you immediately throw this very obvious shot at them AGAIN. I don't know why you can't seem to accept (despite saying you do) the very simple fact that when you see a potential abuse victim, you get them safe first. Make sure they are in a safe place, and then determine innocnce or guilt. You do NOT assume that nothing is wrong and do nothing until you get a dead baby on your hands.

We lock of suspects before trials too. That doesn't mean they aren't innocent before proven guilty either. This is the same thing.

See a mother/father give a rambuctious child a light slap on backside = child abuse.

Hell I didn't know it was so bad that children could accuse their own parents of child abuse if said parent spanked the child.

How is that at all relevant to this case? We are talking about broken bones here. You're obviously using this case as an excuse to complain about child services, but you are stretching it to ridiculous levels. We don't have to agree on the underling morality of spanking. But every sane person will agree that if a parent hits their child so hard that bones break, that is serious criminal abuse.

[Daymanmb]

And christ...anyone with any idea how developing bones develop know that it is MUCH more dificult to break a childs bone:

"Children's bones are more likely to bend than break completely because they're softer. Fracture types that are more common in kids include:

buckle or torus fracture: one side of the bone bends, raising a little buckle, without breaking the other side
greenstick fracture: a partial fracture in which one side of the bone is broken and the other side bends (this fracture resembles what would happen if you tried to break a green stick)"
http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/aches/b_bone.html#

The trauma this child would have had to endure to have 11 broken bones would be so externally apparent, the child would most likely be dead or very close to it...common sence clearly eluded the 'authorities' in this case...

[Roose]

Dealing with Child Services is very tough. It is already a delicate situation. I can tell you from experience that they are not nearly as hasty to get involved as most people would think.

End of the day, we must find a way that suspected child abuse is handled more effectively. This is a very rare condition, but it is far from unknown. I mean Sam Jackson even played a man with the affliction. Proof that the man has done every role under the sun, but also a sign that this is not some unknown disease.

People fucked up, but nobody fucked up as bad as the man who shot and killed himself and his wife.

[Caiada]

It's always the authority's fault, and anyone involved with the government is a liar, much worse than me, and looking for a minute of fame or a quick buck. I also don't know what logic is.

Seriously, this thread is depressing me. Oh my god, authorities acted cautious in the light of unknown facts. Just because some guy way overreacted in a way they could not possibly have predicted does not mean it was the wrong thing to do knowing what they did.

[Daymanmb]

Oh my god, authorities acted cautious in the light of unknown facts.

What unknown facts? The baby had 11 broken bones but no immediate signs of trauma...those are known facts and the two, when examined side by side, do not add up to parental abuse..