GW2 client will be locked to your region

[Lucky_]

And you're right, WoW doesn't lock you out based on your geolocation, but it does dictate who you can or can't play with based on which version of the game you purchased, which is very similar to region locking the client side.

Would you mind elaborating on similarities? Perhaps I'm simply not seeing something that layman does (I work with large server farms for a living). Because to me, someone mixing up server limitations and client access limitations is akin to someone mixing a brake pedal with a clutch. They are simply completely different things. And I've seen a lot of this in this very thread.


And the reason I call this "draconian DRM" is because this is exactly what this is. Server limitations can be easily explained by regional sustainability issues, such as latency which are often pro-consumer (do not let unwitting consumer unknowingly create a character on a server where his lag issues would be bad). It's also often paired with ability to switch if you get other by accident or because regiong you want to get to didn't exist when you bought the game. For example US>EU and EU>Russia switches blizzard set up for WoW upon starting servers dedicated to serving these regions. Client access limitation has simply no pro-consumer argument whatsoever, it's simply designed to force consumer to pay more for the same product. At the same time it is in fact an access limitation mechanic, which means it's DRM mechanic. The fact that you can get locked out of the account you legally purchased without doing anything ethically questionable makes it "draconian".

[Edge-]

Would you mind elaborating on similarities? Perhaps I'm simply not seeing something that layman does (I work with large server farms for a living). Because to me, someone mixing up server limitations and client access limitations is akin to someone mixing a brake pedal with a clutch. They are simply completely different things. And I've seen a lot of this in this very thread.

The similarity exists that both games set restrictions for the player based on what regions copy of the game they purchased. I'm not talking about anything technical, just that any game that implements any kind of region locking system is setting up limitations on their users.

And the reason I call this "draconian DRM" is because this is exactly what this is. Server limitations can be easily explained by regional sustainability issues, such as latency which are often pro-consumer (do not let unwitting consumer unknowingly create a character on a server where his lag issues would be bad). It's also often paired with ability to switch if you get other by accident or because regiong you want to get to didn't exist when you bought the game. For example US>EU and EU>Russia switches blizzard set up for WoW upon starting servers dedicated to serving these regions. Client access limitation has simply no pro-consumer argument whatsoever, it's simply designed to force consumer to pay more for the same product. At the same time it is in fact an access limitation mechanic, which means it's DRM mechanic. The fact that you can get locked out of the account you legally purchased without doing anything ethically questionable makes it "draconian".

There are plenty of ways to create systems that allow users to choose their servers region without letting "unwitting consumers" make mistakes. Every game I've ever played that allowed that did two things, 1. Automatically bunched up your region (even to East coast/West coast) as the first servers you see and 2. Listed out if a server was EU/NA/RU ect. That's beyond obvious, especially considering most of the "unwitting consumers" will usually pick whatever the first server they are assigned to is. Yes, you will always have lower latency playing on servers in your region, but there are times when that can be anti-consumer (see the recent issues SoE is having with their recent EU publishing deal to region lock EQ2 and a number of their other MMO's), it's always a double edged sword.

While I'm not going to delve too much into the business aspect of the benefits of client side access limitation (because it's boring as shit), there are other benefits. Almost all illegal account accesses take place outside of the region of the account holder (mostly in Asia); by preventing regions outside the account holders from accessing the account, it adds another layer of security, which is definitely pro-consumer. Additionally, you have to look at the number of people this will affect. By in large, the overwhelming majority of players play from the region they purchased the game in, traveling outside only for business or vacation, two times when they aren't likely to be spending a lot of time sitting in front of their computer playing. That being said, they should definitely still have access to the game.

I'm not saying that this is totally fine, but I am saying that the idea behind it is sound and has limited impact, and Anet has stated that they are working on a solution for people who travel between regions so that they won't lose access to their accounts, so in the end much of this could become moot as they implement a system that has a workaround for this. So do you consider ALL forms of DRM draconian? Because ALL forms of DRM (mind you, I don't agree with DRM at all to begin with) have the potential to lock legitimate consumers out of their accounts/single player games for various reasons (internet is out, developer authentication/verification servers are down temporarily ect.), that's the point of it. I differentiate between, say, the DRM you see on ARMA (check it out, it's amazing and has 0 negative side effects for legitimate consumers), and the DRM you will find on Spore or Anno 2070 (which can absolutely screw legitimate consumers for no reason), with the latter being "draconian" since it's effects are FAR more widespread and negative to the AVERAGE consumer.

[Lucky_]

I will simply argue on merits against your surprisingly ignorant claims that there are benefits to customer from this:

1. This will in no way shape of form reduce illegitimate RMT. Essentially all of them use legit VPNs or VPN over botnet to tunnel out on continent of their choice right now, because games typically track access from unusual IP ranges already.

2. It adds zero additional security: again anyone looking to hack your account will have local VPN/proxy access to hide his tracks. Someone who's stupid enough not to is exceptionally unlikely to possess a skill set and know how needed to hack an account. It's arguable that it adds negative security - as it may create an illusion of security from outside locations in some users such as yourself (similar to current situation with OSX).

3. Numbers this will affect are irrelevant to the original statement that there are no positives, and significant negatives to some customers.




Finally "we are working on something to fix this" has come after people started to demand a solution. When this information was released, they clearly didn't expect the backlash. Notable that any solution will have to be limiting enough to prevent people from transferring their accounts after purchase in another region, clearly the main and likely only reason this strange form of DRM is being implemented. If this is allowed, the entire arrangement makes no sense whatsoever - they could just as well simply unify their backend into one global DB, and save themselves some money in associated coding and server costs (as they won't have to build an extra layer of DRM on top of authentication mechanisms).

[methus]

Tbh this could easily be solved by implementing a code similar to the one in aion. You have a 6-8 digit code where you have to click with your mouse and it changes every time. Done no hackers can get through.

[Deleted]

I travel between UK, Germany and my country quite often and despite WoW's client not region locked I had to unlock my account quite a few times because "it was accessed outside of my usual residence". Unfortunately, it could took few days sometimes so just when they've unlocked my account in UK I was already in Germany trying to log in again and.. again getting locked out :/. Odd thing is, my wife's account never have been locked despite her loging all over the world >_<. So yeah..

As for the topic at hand.

Client access limitation has simply no pro-consumer argument whatsoever, it's simply designed to force consumer to pay more for the same product.

Well, there are some security benefits. There is also a fact that one game shop actually got pretty good price for it in my country (EU). I'll pay around 40$ for basic version of GW2, so yeah. So I dunno if it's really about the money :s.

At the same time it is in fact an access limitation mechanic, which means it's DRM mechanic. The fact that you can get locked out of the account you legally purchased without doing anything ethically questionable makes it "draconian".

This only affects people who actually travel a lot between US and EU.. so.. it's kinda marginal ;p. Plus, the ability to play on any server I want.. is kinda awesome .

It all boils down to this, if you bought game in EU:
- you can only access your account in EU
- you can play on whatever server you want both EU and US
- in some rare cases you might pay few bucks more (or in my case less ;p)
that's it.. or am I missing something o_O?

[DrakeWurrum]

I will simply argue on merits against your surprisingly ignorant claims that there are benefits to customer from this:

1. This will in no way shape of form reduce illegitimate RMT. Essentially all of them use legit VPNs or VPN over botnet to tunnel out on continent of their choice right now, because games typically track access from unusual IP ranges already.

2. It adds zero additional security: again anyone looking to hack your account will have local VPN/proxy access to hide his tracks. Someone who's stupid enough not to is exceptionally unlikely to possess a skill set and know how needed to hack an account. It's arguable that it adds negative security - as it may create an illusion of security from outside locations in some users such as yourself (similar to current situation with OSX).

3. Numbers this will affect are irrelevant to the original statement that there are no positives, and significant negatives to some customers.

I used proxies to bypass my high school security net all the time, and thus access web sites that were blocked.

Not porn, mind you... but they did block forums. And I was so far beyond what the computer classes were teaching, that I could have more than half a class with nothing at all to do.


I imagine using proxies to bypass this region-lock thing will be extremely easy, even if not recommended.

[VincentWolf]

Geez... Would proxy changing programs or a vpn help this situation?

[Deleted]

I have no problem with this at all. I pay what im willing to pay to play a game i want to play from where i want to play it. If its too costly or limit from where i can play it, i dont buy it. Really dont see the point of raging about it.

Limits its so i cant play from my current location that is.

[Repefe]

I imagine using proxies to bypass this region-lock thing will be extremely easy, even if not recommended.

Recommanded for what ? Save 10 euros and forever be damned to manage proxy connections when playing ? What free proxy service that does not add excessive lag is available nowdays anyway.

[Deleted]

Actually... WoW is a much bigger "screw the customer" (using your own words).

In GW2, you will have to buy ONE game and can play anywhere you want.
In WoW, you will have to buy TWO games so you can play anywhere you want.

Now tell me how is GW2 worse? About your example... you bought an american game but you can only play on the american servers. The day you decide to play with your brother/uncle/wife/whatever that play on a Finish server, you will see how WoW system sucks.

Nope that's not how it works, you can sit at home and play the US servers from an EU account sure, but if you travel to the US and try to log on you will need a US account, with WoW you do need a separate EU and NA account but you are free to play them from anywhere in the world.

Eg - we both have EU accounts and can play any region, that's cool but we decide to go on a trip out of Europe then we are fucked as our accounts wouldn't work.

If you don't plan on traveling then the GW2 system is much better but for anybody who travels it sucks atm, although they are aware of the problem so maybe they will fix it before release.

[DavidGX]

No issues here.

[Window]

apart from military and business people that actually do travel i sense a storm in a teacup

[Deleted]

If I was dutch, I'd need every 10 euros for weed.

yh, too bad I don't live in amsterdam

[Varah]

Sure, and I get esp the military. However, if you're stationed in Germany do you move between there and the US a lot? Or is it "I'm stationed here for X years, then rotate out somewhere."?

I guess I question the idea that there are is a high percentage of people* who routinely travel between the EU and US and have time to play a game (when I'm doing business travel I *might* have an hour or two some evenings, but I'm working). I'm assuming that on the EU side it's locked to the entire EU and not to each country - the latter would be a much bigger deal.

*To be clear... if there are 2m people who want to play and 1% of those are affected it's a lot of people... 20k. But it's not a high percentage.



Sure, but this screws over their business partners in the EU who sell GW2 and from their perspective, they want those resellers to be happy to be stocking GW2 and to promote it. If they let players in the EU buy the US version because it's cheaper then, yes, the players will love them but the resellers won't and thus will be less inclined to stock and promote the Anet games. And... we're talking about 10 euros or so, yes? I mean, that seems like a very small amount to get upset about.

No, but if you are stationed in germany and don't know german well enough (pretty common if you live on base which most do) you are probably going to have your friends send you an american copy especially when you know in 6-12 months you will be back in the US. If you are stationed in Germany you'll likely have a few trips back home where you'll be off for two weeks or more.

As far as would you have the time? Probably actually. My husband used to travel for work. Some days he would be there for 6 hours, other days he only had a meeting for 2-3 hours, and again other days he'd be working longer 8-10+ hour days. It all depended on what the site needed and how long he was going to be there. The downtime varied each day and each trip, but there was still downtime. He doesn't have the job anymore thankfully, but he probably isn't the only guy with that type of job I'm sure.