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  1. #321
    I'm sure it's been said, but even 5000 alliance guards could probably take out a group of 100 US marines, just because it's 5000 people. I understand that machine guns and such are a problem, but it's still 5000 people against 100 people. Plus when you imagine that the alliance can still use healers, shields, mages, rogues, bowmen, and gunmen, it just becomes a massacre. Honestly. A better question would be like 100-300 alliance soldiers (Rogue, Warrior, Hunter, Monk, maybe Death Knight, Priests, and MAYBE Paladins) vs. 100 US marines. No mages, so people don't freak out with "OMG 1 MAGE WINS OVER 10000000 MARINES".
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpyhooves View Post
    Wow people will really argue about anything on the internet.

    Whats next?
    Pepsi vs Holy Pally which would win?
    Apple Mac vs Justin Bieber?

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Yes nothing your weapons can't fix. WEAPONS. Species can be replaced nigh indefinitely while a weapon only as long as there are the SPECIFIC ingredients required to make it. And yeah a rocket launcher could deal a pretty harsh blow but are you REALLY thinking the marines would have enough rocket launchers for say 20 muntain giants, 1000 infernals(who would probably just call that food anyways), 200 tanks and so on? I mean really. As for the NE yeah sure but it's also shown that they are FAR more agile than a human. AND that they DO have scopes in azeroth. Oh and ranged scouting? AGAIN imagine a scout that can phase out of the physical realm? You fire at that and what NOTHING. How about giant creature spewing acid? Or an army of crows that fall down and then become a bunch of bears who's bullet wounds are getting healed as you inflict them? And again i'll say it. You say can pierce steel one of our strongest metals and so on. But what about a metal that may very well make a diamond look weak? I mean look at your crafting list someday. You'll find steel down near the bottom with what? 5 maybe even 10+ materials above it in quality? Yeah not a valid argument.

    As for the horde attacking theramore. THEY ALSO have people who can unleash hell. OUR ARMIES DO NOT. Point being they can do things our soldiers would deem impossible and they have tech that meshes with said traits to do even crazier things. AND AGAIN if we are gonna go full on tech here then guess what? THE DWARVES ARE STUDYING TITAN TECH. And TBH seem to have a pretty good idea of how it works same for gnomes. I mean gnomes can build sci fi grade tech IF THEY BOTHER. They just tend not to.
    You're just countering your own arguments. Earlier I thought it was only well-equipped marines against equipped soldiers, WITHOUT the use of tanks, subs, etc. And a Night Elf can do their little shadowmeld, but it only turns them invisible, not invincible. A bullet would kill those "bears" before they even have time to heal themselves. And having Steel at the bottom of the material chain is just for the sense of progression within the game. They're not going to stop at steel, and just live it at that. And a guided rocket cannot unleash hell? It would destroy the whole city without anybody actually hearing the missile because it is flying faster then the speed of sound. Yeah, it seems like all your arguments seem to be invalid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    Have you heard of a marine being able to penetrate a magical shield with his bullets? Since there's no science to back that, and since magic dictates that there's no way in hell it would, that's what should be logically assumed.

    And really, a mage can be BLIND and still turn your bullet into a legoman.
    Since technology could be considered as magic, yes I have heard of a bullet penetrating through a "magical" shield. And it seems in your point of view "magic" in Azeroth has no limits. And the second point is unnecessary and laughable since I do not know where you are coming from when saying that a blind mage can turn a bullet into anything it wants.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    No no it wouldn't. We have sen both goblins an gnomes build stuff that can do VERY similar things. This isn't some world where magic is just misunderstood tech it;s a world where BOTH magic and tech exist side by side and even compliment each other. They'd know the difference.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:00 AM ----------



    The HUMAN naked eye. And again assuming it would even work against all the species in azeroth.
    I have never heard of any other race being able to view a bullet with the naked eye, so it seems like you're assuming other races can.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    You're just countering your own arguments. Earlier I thought it was only well-equipped marines against equipped soldiers, WITHOUT the use of tanks, subs, etc. And a Night Elf can do their little shadowmeld, but it only turns them invisible, not invincible. A bullet would kill those "bears" before they even have time to heal themselves. And having Steel at the bottom of the material chain is just for the sense of progression within the game. They're not going to stop at steel, and just live it at that. And a guided rocket cannot unleash hell? It would destroy the whole city without anybody actually hearing the missile because it is flying faster then the speed of sound. Yeah, it seems like all your arguments seem to be invalid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:05 AM ----------

    Since technology could be considered as magic, yes I have heard of a bullet penetrating through a "magical" shield. And it seems in your point of view "magic" in Azeroth has no limits. And the second point is unnecessary and laughable since I do not know where you are coming from when saying that a blind mage can turn a bullet into anything it wants.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:07 AM ----------

    I have never heard of any other race being able to view a bullet with the naked eye, so it seems like you're assuming other races can.

    ERRRR, explain to me why technology is ANYTHING like magic and should be considered as such? Technology is a product of scientific research, MAGIC is a product of scientific impossibility made possible by that which is thought to be impossible and nonexistent. Sounds like COMPLETE opposites to me and should be considered as such. And seeing as science is based on rules, and research, and how magic basically knows no bounds, it's fairly obvious what wins in a "fight" if you can even call it that.

    It's like calling turning off a lightbulb a fight.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    How about, the mage causes all the marines to spontaneously combust. Or wait, no, he turns them to ice and shatters them, no wait he brings down an avalanche on top of their heads while remaining impervious to bullets/rockets/tanks/nukes through magical shielding and teleportation. Really...what is the point of arguing, Magic is when something defies science, marines, are based on science, therefore, in the eyes of a mage, THEY ARE handicapped cavemen with no sense of strategy.
    Magic is Science. I have never heard of such a poweful mage he can make 5000 soldiers to spontaneously combust. Magic and teleportation is limited, therefore they cannot go all magic-happy and teleport everybody everywhere. Just because they implemented that in the game, the lore doesn't really approve of it. Heck, Jaina hardly could teleport herself out of Theramore while being attacked by a puny Horde gunship, and she's presumably the most powerful mage in all of Azeroth.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    Magic is Science. I have never heard of such a poweful mage he can make 5000 soldiers to spontaneously combust. Magic and teleportation is limited, therefore they cannot go all magic-happy and teleport everybody everywhere. Just because they implemented that in the game, the lore doesn't really approve of it. Heck, Jaina hardly could teleport herself out of Theramore while being attacked by a puny Horde gunship, and she's presumably the most powerful mage in all of Azeroth.
    No she's not... And, there's plenty of Demi-gods in the warcraft universe capable of imploding the earth if they so desired.

    The fact of the matter is that such a being wouldn't be required to put an end to a REAL fighting force as they have never faced any magic and therefore it's logical to assume that they'd be crushed if faced with a being that can create things out of nothing and become invisible.
    Last edited by Shiny212; 2012-04-11 at 12:13 AM.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    ERRRR, explain to me why technology is ANYTHING like magic and should be considered as such? Technology is a product of scientific research, MAGIC is a product of scientific impossibility made possible by that which is thought to be impossible and nonexistent. Sounds like COMPLETE opposites to me and should be considered as such. And seeing as science is based on rules, and research, and how magic basically knows no bounds, it's fairly obvious what wins in a "fight" if you can even call it that.

    It's like calling turning off a lightbulb a fight.
    They said 100 years ago, flying was considered a scientific impossibility made possible by that which is thought to be impossible and nonexistent. Their is a source to magic, as their is a source to technology.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    No she's not... And, there's plenty of Demi-gods in the warcraft universe capable of imploding the earth if they so desired.

    The fact of the matter is that such a being wouldn't be required to put an end to a REAL fighting force as they have never faced any magic and therefore it's logical to assume that they'd be crushed if faced with a being that can create things out of nothing and become invisible.
    So why haven't they done such things to Azeroth? So you mean to tell me Archimonde, which is presumably a demi-god couldn't of destroyed Azeroth which seems in scale is a lot smaller then planet earth.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    They said 100 years ago, flying was considered a scientific impossibility made possible by that which is thought to be impossible and nonexistent. Their is a source to magic, as their is a source to technology.
    Mhm, and if you look back on history for a moment, take pause, and observe the many supernatural beliefs humanity has had over the course of civilization. Those same supernatural beliefs has led to the fiction of magic, and guess what, magic does supernatural things, that means things that are completely impossible, and even today people believe in these things, so if we replace Firemage with THE HOLY GHOST, can a marine still shoot it to death? Because it's essentially the same thing. Something REAL cant defeat something that has power that is only limited by human creativity.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    No she's not... And, there's plenty of Demi-gods in the warcraft universe capable of imploding the earth if they so desired.

    The fact of the matter is that such a being wouldn't be required to put an end to a REAL fighting force as they have never faced any magic and therefore it's logical to assume that they'd be crushed if faced with a being that can create things out of nothing and become invisible.
    So why haven't they done such things to Azeroth? So you mean to tell me Archimonde, which is presumably a demi-god couldn't of destroyed Azeroth which seems in scale is a lot smaller then planet earth.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  9. #329
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    You're just countering your own arguments. Earlier I thought it was only well-equipped marines against equipped soldiers, WITHOUT the use of tanks, subs, etc. And a Night Elf can do their little shadowmeld, but it only turns them invisible, not invincible. A bullet would kill those "bears" before they even have time to heal themselves. And having Steel at the bottom of the material chain is just for the sense of progression within the game. They're not going to stop at steel, and just live it at that. And a guided rocket cannot unleash hell? It would destroy the whole city without anybody actually hearing the missile because it is flying faster then the speed of sound. Yeah, it seems like all your arguments seem to be invalid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:05 AM ----------

    Since technology could be considered as magic, yes I have heard of a bullet penetrating through a "magical" shield. And it seems in your point of view "magic" in Azeroth has no limits. And the second point is unnecessary and laughable since I do not know where you are coming from when saying that a blind mage can turn a bullet into anything it wants.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:07 AM ----------

    I have never heard of any other race being able to view a bullet with the naked eye, so it seems like you're assuming other races can.
    You don't live near any bears do you?

    As for "countering my own argument" nope not really. Azeroth is a magiTECH world. And the OP only limited marines tech. Alliance was gimped by no heroes. So again azeroth has the advantage. I am also trying to reach a marine fanboy whose father was also quite high ranking at the local air force base to get his take.

    And yeah i agree warcraft mages are weak as far as mages go. But a weak mage is still insanely OP by our standards.

    Oh and just because a species WE KNOW of can't counter a modern gun(and i'd argue such species DO exist see hummingbirds but just do not recognize the danger) does not mean they don't.

    And again azeroth has native species that can phase among other things.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    Mhm, and if you look back on history for a moment, take pause, and observe the many supernatural beliefs humanity has had over the course of civilization. Those same supernatural beliefs has led to the fiction of magic, and guess what, magic does supernatural things, that means things that are completely impossible, and even today people believe in these things, so if we replace Firemage with THE HOLY GHOST, can a marine still shoot it to death? Because it's essentially the same thing. Something REAL cant defeat something that has power that is only limited by human creativity.
    Magic can be presented in many different forms. I see what you're trying to say, but if you take a step back to the beliefs of humans hundreds and thousands of years ago, today they just re-named magic technology.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    You don't live near any bears do you?

    As for "countering my own argument" nope not really. Azeroth is a magiTECH world. And the OP only limited marines tech. Alliance was gimped by no heroes. So again azeroth has the advantage. I am also trying to reach a marine fanboy whose father was also quite high ranking at the local air force base to get his take.

    And yeah i agree warcraft mages are weak as far as mages go. But a weak mage is still insanely OP by our standards.

    Oh and just because a species WE KNOW of can't counter a modern gun(and i'd argue such species DO exist see hummingbirds but just do not recognize the danger) does not mean they don't.

    And again azeroth has native species that can phase among other things.
    An amateur holding an automatic weapon can be considered OP. Look at all the damage that individual with a gun can cause.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    You don't live near any bears do you?

    As for "countering my own argument" nope not really. Azeroth is a magiTECH world. And the OP only limited marines tech. Alliance was gimped by no heroes. So again azeroth has the advantage. I am also trying to reach a marine fanboy whose father was also quite high ranking at the local air force base to get his take.

    And yeah i agree warcraft mages are weak as far as mages go. But a weak mage is still insanely OP by our standards.

    Oh and just because a species WE KNOW of can't counter a modern gun(and i'd argue such species DO exist see hummingbirds but just do not recognize the danger) does not mean they don't.

    And again azeroth has native species that can phase among other things.
    An amateur holding an automatic weapon can be considered OP by our standards. Look at all the damage that individual with a gun can cause.
    Last edited by TheAmazingFeedz; 2012-04-11 at 12:23 AM.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    Magic can be presented in many different forms. I see what you're trying to say, but if you take a step back to the beliefs of humans hundreds and thousands of years ago, today they just re-named magic technology.
    Magic is a constant actually; when DaVinci drew the plans for a flying machine it wasnt magic, but an idea for a construction. Things that were considered magic a thousand years ago are still magic today. We still can't breathe fire, grow wings and fly or raise the dead.

  12. #332
    Wow people will really argue about anything on the internet.

    Whats next?
    Pepsi vs Holy Pally which would win?
    Apple Mac vs Justin Bieber?

  13. #333
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    They said 100 years ago, flying was considered a scientific impossibility made possible by that which is thought to be impossible and nonexistent. Their is a source to magic, as their is a source to technology.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:14 AM ----------

    So why haven't they done such things to Azeroth? So you mean to tell me Archimonde, which is presumably a demi-god couldn't of destroyed Azeroth which seems in scale is a lot smaller then planet earth.
    Again this ISN'T EARTH. BOTH magic and tech are as real in Azeroth as the fact that every human needs to shit.

    Or look at it this way. We have various areas of science that we research in azeroth magic is just another thing to be researched. HOWEVER it also does not follow the scientific physics of even it's own world. Sp yeah you can try and explain it. But you'll have more or just as much luck explaining god.

  14. #334
    I'm pretty sure bulletproof vests can't stop magic. And I'm also pretty sure bullets wouldn't have any effect on something like a voidwalker or a water elemental.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    Magic is a constant actually; when DaVinci drew the plans for a flying machine it wasnt magic, but an idea for a construction. Things that were considered magic a thousand years ago are still magic today. We still can't breathe fire, grow wings and fly or raise the dead.
    We can revive the fallen, though. Magic is very similar, if not the same as technology.The concept of flying back then was considered magic, nevermind flying a high speed and altitudes.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Again this ISN'T EARTH. BOTH magic and tech are as real in Azeroth as the fact that every human needs to shit.

    Or look at it this way. We have various areas of science that we research in azeroth magic is just another thing to be researched. HOWEVER it also does not follow the scientific physics of even it's own world. Sp yeah you can try and explain it. But you'll have more or just as much luck explaining god.
    Couldn't agree more.

  17. #337
    Well, I'm done arguing with all of you guys. I am not saying either one of us are right or wrong, but what good does it make if we argue? If just creates a massive flame war in which I probably had made worse.

    Edit: Nobody wins. One cannot compare a magical sustained world compared to a technological sustained world. It doesn't make sense and anything could happen, depends on whom point of view one is currently viewing. So, in reality, if you think about it this thread is really ridiculous, although it can initiate discussion among one another, it has more negative effects on each other.
    Last edited by TheAmazingFeedz; 2012-04-11 at 12:34 AM.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    We can revive the fallen, though. Magic is very similar, if not the same as technology.The concept of flying back then was considered magic, nevermind flying a high speed and altitudes.
    The point stands, until we can train to become Magi I don't see how a marine from the real world or a thousand of them could stand a chance against a fictional person with unlimited power.

  19. #339
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    We can revive the fallen, though. Magic is very similar, if not the same as technology.The concept of flying back then was considered magic, nevermind flying a high speed and altitudes.
    Yes but UNLIKE THAT it clearly IS real. Or are you saying that the ability to say summon an extradimensional being with nothing but your willpower is science?

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Yes but UNLIKE THAT it clearly IS real. Or are you saying that the ability to say summon an extradimensional being with nothing but your willpower is science?
    There is magic, but then there is childish farfetched magic that is usually introduced in fantasy games. All I was trying to prove is that technology and science is very similar.

    Read my post I had posted before this one.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

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