Pseudo science.

[Deleted]

Why do you think pseudo science is constantly given so much respect over conventional science?

I most recently experienced this with dieting. I'm currently on my "healthy" diet cycle, I consulted with a registered doctor who is also a nutritionist. We sat down and I told him what I'd like to achieve in terms of body fat and muscle mass and made out a plan according to my needs (he took bloods, heart rate, BP etc).

I however know someone on a new diet for the summer, taking these very odd "natural" supplements. They apparently harness the power of something or other, in conjunction with a raw food diet. She's very much into "alternative medicine" and the such. Apparently her local herbalist gave her some information.

Personally I attribute this reverence to pseudo science because it's easier to understand. It's less work and often less initially expensive. A bottle of these supplements is maybe twenty euro, my doctor visit was quite a bit more.

But what do you think? Why do people give so much rope to pseudo science?

And let's be clear: Herbalism can be science, but many branches of it are nonsense, e.g. homeopathy

[zooland]

Because everyone wants to believe that there is a quick magic fix to every problem they have. Putting effort over a period of time to accomplish something is underrated.

---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 12:21 AM ----------

Also, I believe you are mad cause you are old, LoL!

[Callace]

Even Dr. Oz is guilty of this. He makes plenty of unfounded claims that are circulated because people are desperate for them to work.

[birdfly]

i honestly think there is this kind of power struggle going on with science and medical.

Most conventional science comes from the western culture (america) while chinese medicine, india and other country's, use different ways of handling science and medicine.

1 of the key problems with american science, (and medical) is they always seek to win over nature, or to go at war with the disease or sickness. I think chinese medicine does something different against diseases and sicknesses.

Western science is brute knowledge, and seeks to understand and rationalize everything into a compound that the mind can understand and play with.

Where's other sciences and medical might "work" with nature, instead of trying to understand it completely.

Just my 2 cents.

[Callace]

i honestly think there is this kind of power struggle going on with science and medical.

Most conventional science comes from the western culture (america) while chinese medicine, india and other country's, use different ways of handling science and medicine.

1 of the key problems with american science, (and medical) is they always seek to win over nature, or to go at war with the disease or sickness. I think chinese medicine does something different against diseases and sicknesses.

Western science is brute knowledge, and seeks to understand and rationalize everything into a compound that the mind can understand and play with.

Where's other sciences and medical might "work" with nature, instead of trying to understand it completely.

Just my 2 cents.

Those compounds come from nature however. The body is a chemical composition in itself. Do you mean that there are "natural" ways of manipulating physiology and "unnatural" ways?

[Grizzly Willy]

Because everyone wants to believe that there is a quick magic fix to every problem they have. Putting effort over a period of time to accomplish something is underrated.

---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 12:21 AM ----------

Also, I believe you are mad cause you are old, LoL!

Pardon my language, but what the hell are you talking about. How do you get jealousy from a post asking about pseudoscience? Homeopaths and their ilk are either terrible people who are trying to make easy money off of the gullible, are idiots who don't bother to work with actual science, or are so hard-headed that they refuse to accept that they are wrong and peddle their bullshit because "it's alternative, man! Also, screw your vaccines, those are bad for you!"

Seriously, people who practice pseudoscience are a detriment to our society.

Even Dr. Oz is guilty of this. He makes plenty of unfounded claims that are circulated because people are desperate for them to work.

I place Oz in the idiot category.

[birdfly]

Those compounds come from nature however. The body is a chemical composition in itself. Do you mean that there are "natural" ways of manipulating physiology and "unnatural" ways?

what i am saying is we shouldn't try to manipulate compounds period.

I have a strong hope that disease can be cured with out destroying or manipulating the disease. I know that sounds retarded but i think that's what pseudo medical is mostly about, versus our current health system.

As for science itself, well we always document and label data we learn into knowledge, i really don't know how pseudo science could be much different, and i don't want to go into religion so i think that science is all the same.

[Sayl]

But what do you think? Why do people give so much rope to pseudo science?

Many people want feel-good warm fuzzies, not scientific rigor (if they can even identify or grasp the latter). That's how it became a cottage industry.

I think a lot of it has to do with the prevalence of New-Age beliefs, coupled with a strong presence of anti-scientific nonsense all over the Internet. Many people can't recognize bullshit when they see it, and aren't scientifically well-educated enough to make informed decisions.

[smelltheglove]

pseudo sciences are almost always tailored to appeal to and support already held beliefs. of course it will be more likeable than reality

[Karrion]

Many people want feel-good warm fuzzies, not scientific rigor (if they can even identify or grasp the latter). That's how it became a cottage industry.

I think a lot of it has to do with the prevalence of New-Age beliefs, coupled with a strong presence of anti-scientific nonsense all over the Internet. Many people can't recognize bullshit when they see it, and aren't scientifically well-educated enough to make informed decisions.

Pretty much this.
The bad thing about all this new age crap is that as soon someone believes in it it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise.

[Pymeran]

pseudo science

First of all it is "pseudoscience" not "pseudo science". (It makes a huge difference.)

I think the main reason is that scientists often don't communicate well with those who are not scientists. Even medical doctors who deal with patients will rarely explain reasons behind an illness or a treatment fully, most of the time the patient will not know what is going on.

Those who practice pseudoscience however are NOT scientists (obviously). Because their whole existence depends on people believing in them and their practice, they tend to make people believe in them by explaining things in the common language something that many scientists fail to do so.

[ambigiouslynamed]

most ppl believe what they want, anything else?

[Krastyn]

Pretty much this.
The bad thing about all this new age crap is that as soon someone believes in it it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise.

I would say this argument goes for both sides. There are many people who take "science" without a second though. They'll trust what their doctor says, or a professional without a second thought. Look at all the products, pharmaceuticals, and other things that have either been recalled, or found out years later to cause undesired effects. While things are tested fairly well, the long term testing is limited.

I'm fine either way. If someone wants to go the full science route, have at it. If you want to go natural, great. Both have pros and cons. It is up to the individual to decide which is best.

[ambigiouslynamed]

what i am saying is we shouldn't try to manipulate compounds period.

I have a strong hope that disease can be cured with out destroying or manipulating the disease. I know that sounds retarded but i think that's what pseudo medical is mostly about, versus our current health system.

As for science itself, well we always document and label data we learn into knowledge, i really don't know how pseudo science could be much different, and i don't want to go into religion so i think that science is all the same.

"manipulating" diseases or not is not pseudoscience, its at most generous a discussion on the merits on creating new diseases, which is pointless, because only the disease you manipulated would be effective by your counters and the diseases you didnt manipulate would thrive unless you created some wacky disease that could eliminate other diseases yet still be eliminated by humans and thats not even getting into how the parts of the disease would survive based on sheer numbers and might evolve into something less controllable.

But on topic pseudoscience are things like "prevents hair loss by thinking happy thoughts", not inoculating your children will make them even healthier, even though that just brings up why inoculation was created in the first place.

There are 2 main kinds of pseudo science
1) Stuff that dont make no sense like being based on emotion or thinking certain thoughts
2) Science thats been discredited (such as freud) or simply doesnt stand up if analyzed

[Kasierith]

Two reasons... first, pseudosciences are easy to grasp but hard to understand, if done properly. They can be communicated easily to others, and thus place themselves into people's lives, but the source of them is completely intangible, and therefore difficult to question on the surface. On the other hand, science is highly technical. Standardized exams show just how weak a grasp the majority of society has on modern science. Whats more, people know this... people go to a doctor knowing the doctor has years more training and knowledge, and has an understanding of things they could never grasp. It is a distinctly uncomfortable feeling for many people, and the reason why many are too intimidated by their physicians to ask necessary medical questions. The other reason why is that pseudosciences are made specifically to address people's concerns, rather than their problems. They are meant to comfort rather than address.

An example is the concept that nutrition changes can cure cancer. It draws upon very simple concepts that everyone can grasp, that certain food is better than others. Everyone knows this, knows that eating a carrot is healthier than eating a candy bar. So it isn't a stretch to believe that one type of food is better for a certain illness. Because people don't understand cancer, however, they don't know how to tie the food to its cure; so they are left only with the concept that the food is good, but not exactly why.

[Roose]

The same reason people keep filling the pews every weekend.

Hope sells, and the more accessible it is the more people will flock to it.

It does go with the theory that understanding the actual science behind the scenes is much more difficult than explaining a miracle.

[Callace]

what i am saying is we shouldn't try to manipulate compounds period.

As for science itself, well we always document and label data we learn into knowledge, i really don't know how pseudo science could be much different, and i don't want to go into religion so i think that science is all the same.

You lost me. Does this mean you are against knowledge?

[Sanguinare]

sadly science can be tested and in most cases you can look at the tests to know what works and how. now Pseudoscience is not tested it is what people think i smoke marijuana and now i can eat. so weed gives you the munchies right no wrong what is dose is shut off the nerve response of feeling full so if your eating disorder is not involved with that nerve function you are taking the wrong med in smoking marijuana.

Doctors are well paid people some of them don't read all the test and we even have a government in the US that makes it so you can't test marijuana to make it science.
or even pfizer paying to get drugs that have not fully been test out to said doctors. sadly money will destroy it all.

Pseudoscience can all just be bull shit there are things that most people think that after testing end up flat out wrong. like if we let people rest after a nerve injury it will heal faster nope working the limb can cut recovery in half.

the key is to look at your Pseudoscience with an eye of science try to find out why things work don't ever just think they will.

[Grizzly Willy]

most ppl believe what they want, anything else?

Well then, your massive intelligence clearly and succinctly wrapped this up.

If you're going to act arrogant, at least post something insightful.

[ambigiouslynamed]

Well then, your massive intelligence clearly and succinctly wrapped this up.

If you're going to act arrogant, at least post something insightful.

there is nothing "insightful" about pseudoscience and the morons who believe it. It Is A Load Of Crap.