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  1. #81
    Personally I really enjoy watching the Blues get so mad. They reap what they sow. They are the reason the community is so bad, so they should deal with it. I also wonder when we'll get the first quarter numbers out for subscribers. I really would like to see that. I have no idea what happened over the last 3 months but if you were to base it on my server alone, I'd say WoW lost a huge number of subscribers. That would help explain some of their hostility. Since about the last 6 months of Wrath, Blizzard has just gone crazy it seems.


    Quote Originally Posted by ACFroggy View Post
    So so far this place has been compared to AQ20, AQ40, BoT, BWD, ICC, and TK. That's a whole lot to copy from!

    And these comments asking for an open air raid are magical. The last raid of cata was open air and all people did was bitch about wanting to go inside a building!

    Why are people so dumb ?!?!? ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Uh, because DS wasn't really open air? You could only mount up at the start of the instance, the rest of it wasn't really open air. It was simply a box designed to LOOK open, when it really wasn't.

  2. #82
    The whole idea of Horde favortism in the game is beyond ridiculous, and the amount that some people get worked up about that perception is even crazier. I don't blame blues at all for posting something sarcastic about it.

    All I hear is complaining from the Alliance about favoritism, however blue side will get to actually invade the Horde's main city in MoP, yet I don't hear the red side complain about that. The level of whining has gotten so ridiculous that I actually think blues and Blizzard need to start snapping back. Everyone gets the same content, why on earth does the lore have to be balanced? It makes for a pretty boring story if it doesn't ebb and flow.

  3. #83
    Is Blizzard even trying anymore? All these raids they come up with look the same.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Benson80 View Post
    Is Blizzard even trying anymore? All these raids they come up with look the same.

    go play star wars then

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by sockzz View Post
    go play star wars then
    dont worry, 2 million subscribers will leave again
    Photo Website: http://www.jeremynative.com Please check out

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    People whinging about OMG it looks the same.

    Well - here is a clue, almost every house in the planet looks the same - they all have insides and outsides, and many have rooms and beds and cooking places.

    You see what you want to see, if what you want to see is rehashed content - then that is what you see.

    I saw something new and fantastic - awesome and can't wait for it.
    That's a terrible analogy, video games are played for escapism and enjoyment. If you always end up playing the same game, you get bored. Hence why the game is jettisoning subscribers. Saying it's like a house or a car.. well just behave please.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    Uh, because DS wasn't really open air? You could only mount up at the start of the instance, the rest of it wasn't really open air. It was simply a box designed to LOOK open, when it really wasn't.
    It's an instance, of course they are going to impose boundaries on where you can mount and where you can go. Also, that had nothing to do with his point.

  8. #88
    With no disrespect to the people who are defending the preview of the inside of this raid, getting all upset and angry that people think it looks like ICC is just a bit pathetic really. Without a doubt some of the new zones look a hell of alot like The Crimson Halls in ICC no matter what way you spin it. Getting all whiney and telling people to "go back and play starwars" just because they think Blizzards design isn't good just makes you look somebody defending their right to pay a subscription to a jaded game.

    If you like it, post that you like it! If you dont you have the right to post your opinion too. Just arguing about it like a bunch of children is pointless.

  9. #89
    ugh I want a d3 beta invite so bad

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Volas View Post
    With no disrespect to the people who are defending the preview of the inside of this raid, getting all upset and angry that people think it looks like ICC is just a bit pathetic really. Without a doubt some of the new zones look a hell of alot like The Crimson Halls in ICC no matter what way you spin it. Getting all whiney and telling people to "go back and play starwars" just because they think Blizzards design isn't good just makes you look somebody defending their right to pay a subscription to a jaded game.

    If you like it, post that you like it! If you dont you have the right to post your opinion too. Just arguing about it like a bunch of children is pointless.

    They are unable to post that they like it because they hate it as well, they just take it out on anyone that dares say it.

    Look at BWL compared to Molten Core, look at BT compared to TK or SSC, look at Sunwell compared to Hyjal/BT. Blizzard has lost their way, I don't doubt that they still have plenty of creativity but it's quite obvious that whoever is ruling the roost has an iron fist. I don't really think WoW is in any danger of dying simply because the fan base is too massive, they'll continue to pay for a lesser product just because they have been for years and/or refuse to look elsewhere. Its not an opinion if the quality of content that Blizzard is pumping out is taking a dive. Along with Blizzard trying to remove everything that's "not fun" such as having to travel to dungeons etc the game has gone from an MMORPG to just something to do.

    I think Steve Jobs explanation of why Businesses go downhill applies well to WoW. “The company does a great job, innovates and becomes a monopoly or close to it in some field, and then the quality of the product becomes less important. The company starts valuing the great salesman, because they’re the ones who can move the needle on revenues.” So salesmen are put in charge, and product engineers and designers feel demoted: Their efforts are no longer at the white-hot center of the company’s daily life. They “turn off.”

  11. #91
    High Overlord kerghan's Avatar
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    Honestly, you know what it looks like to me? AQ. Is there any lore-connection between Mantid and Sithilid?

    Also, to the people saying it looks like crimson halls... you're really scraping to find something to bitch about. Architecture is different, colors are different, decor is different... Yes, it is a giant hall with vaulted ceilings that will be populated with mobs. A citadel, a temple, a bastion... made of ice, blackness, twilight or otherwise will always look like a giant hall with vaulted ceilings, stairs, and a boss on a stage.
    -- Funny story, they did something VERY different with Tot4W, and everybody HATED THE SHIT OUT OF IT. They also made an entire zone underwater and got similar complaints. So you get giant halls with vaulted ceilings and the occasional outdoor area that's not actually outdoors (MH, DS)

    When we get siege of Org, people are going to say that it's too much like Sunwell because it will be several buildings in a city that you go in and out of to get to the bosses. It will also be mostly linear. Mark my words.

  12. #92
    Heart of fear layout looks a lot like Bastion of Twilight with different interior (notice the hall shapes and the thingies on the floor, and the stair etc.), looks cool nonetheless though.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by ganush View Post
    All I hear is complaining from the Alliance about favoritism, however blue side will get to actually invade the Horde's main city in MoP, yet I don't hear the red side complain about that.
    Considering that Horde is participating in the same raid with the same goal, why would they complain? Horde didn't complain about the Battle for Undercity, either, and with good reason. Both sides are winners, yay!

    Get back to us when the Horde is actually *losing*, the way the Alliance has been.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-13 at 09:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Benson80 View Post
    They are unable to post that they like it because they hate it as well, they just take it out on anyone that dares say it.

    Look at BWL compared to Molten Core, look at BT compared to TK or SSC, look at Sunwell compared to Hyjal/BT. Blizzard has lost their way
    I am trying super hard to parse this statement, but it doesn't make any sense.

    Are you trying to say these raids got better? Worse? Look better? I just don't follow you.
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

  14. #94
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Feels very AQ40, without the mind-numbing maze of tunnels. Sounds good

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Daralii View Post
    I can't exactly blame the blues, though. So many people on the forums do nothing but talk shit about them, the game, and the company all day every day. If we want the blues to not be assholes, then we shouldn't be assholes. Unfortunately, "Don't be a dick" is probably impossible for a lot of the playerbase.
    Bluntly, if you do not have an infinite tolerance for angst then you do not belong in any kind of public relations position. If you find yourself descending into aggression, find yourself patronising people, find yourself exuding self-pity, find yourself dismissing concerns as a whole (rather than the poorly expressed versions of some people), or find yourself creating straw-men to fight against then you should resign or be removed since you will inevitably start to do damage thereby becoming the antithesis of your intended role. If you’re making public posts of such a nature whilst performing an alternative role, such as creative development, then public relations should simply be given the power to stop you since you lack their expertise thus should defer to them.

    Personally, I speak to public relations staff with as much decorum and respect as is possible but the simple fact of the matter is that the job invariably entails negative emotions. Moreover, maintaining a polite register is far, far less difficult for posts on a forum as you’re entirely capable of carefully considering the composition of posts prior to submission or not replying at all. Consequently, I have very little sympathy in this context as it should be possible to maintain detachment or control over your phraseology due to the medium.

    With regard to the story, the writing has simply taken a turn for the worse in WoW and they have ignored a plethora of constructive, polite criticism whilst replying publically to poorly phrased criticism instead. I don’t know whether that’s intentional on their part to trivialise complaints thereby generating sympathy for the staff or is simply incompetence/confirmation bias but both are inexcusable. There are innumerable posts that make excellent, properly composed points about how illogical and contrived the story direction has become in many areas. For a start, Children of Wrath has some incredibly good, well substantiated points on this matter regarding Thrall that have previously been made on the forums by others and certainly have been made subsequently.

    In response to genuine concerns, Blizzard figures have publically missed the point or created straw-men. When Metzen responds to concerns about the restoration of Thrall and removal of Garrosh with comments about the outrage over the original change then there’s a problem because numerous affecting factors have to be taken into account yet he failed to do that (e.g. Thrall wasn’t as much of a Mary Sue/Green Jesus then, nobody had gotten to known Garrosh, it assumes major overlap of the demographics that rejected the original change and those that reject this change, etc). What does it tell you when somebody is incapable of basic logic? It wasn’t Thrall’s neutrality that was the problem so returning him to Warchief won’t undo the mistake, Thrall is the problem and Varian is set to follow the same path.

    We see similar tactics in the blue forum responses. For instance, one question deals with the plausibility of Varian being accepted by far older races yet is answered with references to the composition of the pre-WoW Alliance (or seems to) and creates an utter straw-man by presuming that the question is arguing in favour of democracy. It is patently obvious that the only alternative isn’t ‘democracy’ when you have other Alliance leaders with incredible ferocity or wisdom in their past lore that can be emphasised again. It really is supremely ironic when Blizzard tell others not to use ‘false pretences’ when they consistently do the same.

    Personally, I love the rest of the game but the story has used innumerable cringe-worthy clichés lately so I think Blizzard dismiss concerns at their own risk. If it ultimately turns out that the Alliance work with the Horde to take back Orgrimmar or that the invasion is a cheap gimmick to give the illusion of blanace, Thrall’s future fatherhood makes him see the ‘value of peace for future generations,’ Varian soaks up all of the lore development for the Alliance by giving a few rousing speeches to groups of sword-waving NPCs, Thrall isn’t still loathed by Varian, Jaina’s intellect and power remain glossed over after Theramore, Tyrande remains a complete weakling, the night elves continue to be inexplicably powerless, the Draenei/Blood Elves continue to be mysteriously quiet, the Forsaken don’t attract more attention for their extreme belligerence, etc then they will have no excuses when people say ‘told you so’ over the soap opera writing. All of this is said by a Horde player so the ridiculous generalisation and ad hominem attacks of Zarhym about Alliance players being ‘cynical’ don’t apply, both faction and general writing have been appalling in their lack of depth when contrasted with previous Warcraft lore.

    Above all, there are countless examples of conflicts in reality that can be drawn upon to give interesting leadership development, to create a believable grass-roots resistance, to plausibly explain dwindling power, to explain an overextension that led to a turn-around in the conflict, to show the effects of economic collapse due to excessive focus on warmongering, etc so I sincerely hope they manage to utilise those to generate an immersive storyline.

    Anyway... I wrote a lot more than I intended so I'll tottle away now.

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans Porimlys's Avatar
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    Heart of Fear might be the coolest raid name ever, haha

  17. #97
    Anyone who wonders why some might follow a king who is headstrong and thousands of years younger is obviously neither Japanese nor British nor Swedish nor etc...

    Ask a Brit why they haven't put the royal's heads on pikes over London bridge yet? Or at least... served them with an eviction notice and maid service bill.

    The concept of royalty as something important rather than to be ridiculed is deeply ingrained in some cultures. And it won't matter how bad your royals are - they are -YOUR- royals. We Americans wrap ourselves in our flag, the Brits wrap themselves up in the royals. The greatest fear the Japanese had during WWII, was not getting wiped out to the last man woman and child - but that they would lose their royal family. And despite both of these nations now having royals that just show up at parades and give a royal-wave to the crowds - they are still in place and still a very core part of their self-identity.

    Now I'm just guessing the comment was about elves - but it fits for any immortal race too.

    If you think of elves as beings that live for eons - they're probably pretty thick in the head and stuck in their ways. The average elf would make your great-granny seem like a raving techie-liberal-lunatic. These people probably don't do well with change. So if somebody comes along and is a complete dolt, but has the right bloodline - that's the king. And they won't have no ifs ands or buts about it.

    It'd be a lot like when US forces showed up on the great plains, went to the tribes and said 'take us to your leader', and mah boyz took em to a pack of old grandma's. The Americans came back with 'no, your leaders, not a pack of useless old women. Bring us your leaders,' so we looked around and noticed their guns and thought... oh, they mean our war conucil... yeah, where's gramps at?

    The elves are likely to show up anywhere and be completely blind to the ability to see leaders that are not royals of the 'ancient bloodline' - no matter who you put in front of them, they'll just look back at you with 'ok stupid, we said leader' until you show up with a guy who's got a crown and a pedigree.

    Again, you could make the same or similar comment about most of the immortal races. And for any culture stuck in its own ways - its going to presume others act the same. Stormwind's king may be there in large part because elves and dwarves have no idea how to speak to a leader who is not a king. The draenei probably look at anybody missing tentacles and think 'freak', then proceed to lord over them with 'priestly advice from the prophet' while claiming to follow. And the humans of the various nations all look for monarchs in their cultures. The gnomes... here I realize I don't even know enough about them to say anything...
    Last edited by arcady; 2012-04-13 at 11:53 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by arcady View Post

    Ask a Brit why they haven't put the royal's heads on pikes over London bridge yet? Or at least... served them with an eviction notice and maid service bill.
    Simple, 'cause the Royals bring cash to the country in the form of tourists. But nobody cares about them anyway, aside from spending too much cash on weddings, banquets, they are benign, but once they would get too political involved and try to police the people they'd be abolished sooner as you can say poop, same goes for virtually any remaining monarchy in the western world.

    The mentality of todays world is projected to the game. What might once have worked wouldn't work today anymore, and people don't seem to realize a game is a game. Today a King is something you earn cash with by printing t-shirts and postcards then sell them to tourists, nothing more nothing less. I know there's still dictatorship in form of royalty around this planet tho.
    Last edited by F-Minus; 2012-04-14 at 01:05 AM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by arcady View Post
    *snipped*
    I sincerely doubt the Night Elves would have any kind of deference to a royal figure, especially if its human, based upon their lore. I think they learned their mistakes concerning nobility due to The Sundering, Azshara, and the Highborne. Naturally, it would fit the Blood Elves given their heritage but not the Night Elves. In the case of both, human bloodlines wouldn't matter in the slightest, I imagine the Blood Elves would laugh at the notion.

    Also, I did make a pretty lengthy post about how Zarhym was guilty of using a complete straw-man argument in this area but it has failed to appear for some reason, I presume because it’s in some kind of moderation queue. *None the less, it is profoundly ironic that Zarhym asks people not to initiate discussions on ‘false pretences’ then either intentionally or idiotically misrepresents the position of some questions. For instance, the references to pre-WoW Alliance structuring in relation to the 'older races' question (at least I think that’s what is being referred to) are irrelevant and the question never implies that ‘democracy’ is the only alternative or even suggests that they desire democracy. If a race has a leadership figure that has been powerful, ferocious, loyal, intelligent, etc in past lore then why isn’t greater collaboration as equals considered? The present path simply risks Varian and Humans absorbing all of the lore, I’d prefer it if at least Tyrande and the Night Elves received the same level of development as Sylvannas and the Forsaken. Equally, further Blood Elf, Draenei, and Worgen development is long overdue.

    As to the royalty and Britain, I'm British and I most assuredly do not wish to retain them but that's another discussion.
    Last edited by Valindrius; 2012-04-14 at 01:11 AM.

  20. #100
    two hundred and seventy five thousand extra invites

    Oh well, im from Europe, i doubt ill have the chance to get myself a beta key.
    wonder what the eu to us ratio is for these keys, prolly 274k us, 1k eu?! :P

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