The way Guild Wars 2 is MEANT to be played

[Tornath]

Where are his resources as a caster? What limits him from standing on a ledge and literally casting forever? Whats the point of playing any other class if I can cast roots, snares, slows, and my control on the move and *still* kite you while nuking you down? Obviously there will be ways to close the gap but that seems like a glaring, glaring problem.

---------- Post added 2012-04-18 at 12:39 PM ----------

That also being said where is the actual skill coming from? Line of sighting spells and circle strafing around to get at his back? How is this new? The dodge is a neat mechanic I suppose, but I'm not seeing anything new to the mmo pvp game at this point. You still target to cast spells, you still circle around to do more damage. In fact the only thing I've seen that is different is that players will be penalized for not having the right weapon equipped to deal with set scenario. I can easily see this heading towards ((looking for group pvp, must have xyz weapon equipped))

Double post, sorry

[nocturnus]

Where are his resources as a caster? What limits him from standing on a ledge and literally casting forever? Whats the point of playing any other class if I can cast roots, snares, slows, and my control on the move and *still* kite you while nuking you down? Obviously there will be ways to close the gap but that seems like a glaring, glaring problem.

---------- Post added 2012-04-18 at 12:39 PM ----------

That also being said where is the actual skill coming from? Line of sighting spells and circle strafing around to get at his back? How is this new? The dodge is a neat mechanic I suppose, but I'm not seeing anything new to the mmo pvp game at this point. You still target to cast spells, you still circle around to do more damage. In fact the only thing I've seen that is different is that players will be penalized for not having the right weapon equipped to deal with set scenario. I can easily see this heading towards ((looking for group pvp, must have xyz weapon equipped))

Double post, sorry

I personally think you've got these questions because you haven't seen enough GW2 pvp footage. Press, and players alike, are absolutely ecstatic about GW2 pvp. They've also given quite extensive arguments for their enthousiasm. You should start by checking the video thread on these forums. Maybe those can answer your questions.

I don't want to participate in any wow discussions, especially not when it concerns death knights, but just so it's clear: rotation and priority system are two very different things. Frost, complex? hehehe...

[Tornath]

No, I'd rather not be answered with a "go watch videos" I've got these questions *from* that video posted. I think they're valid questions as well.

[Robot-Nixon]

Where are his resources as a caster? What limits him from standing on a ledge and literally casting forever? Whats the point of playing any other class if I can cast roots, snares, slows, and my control on the move and *still* kite you while nuking you down? Obviously there will be ways to close the gap but that seems like a glaring, glaring problem.

---------- Post added 2012-04-18 at 12:39 PM ----------

That also being said where is the actual skill coming from? Line of sighting spells and circle strafing around to get at his back? How is this new? The dodge is a neat mechanic I suppose, but I'm not seeing anything new to the mmo pvp game at this point. You still target to cast spells, you still circle around to do more damage. In fact the only thing I've seen that is different is that players will be penalized for not having the right weapon equipped to deal with set scenario. I can easily see this heading towards ((looking for group pvp, must have xyz weapon equipped))

Double post, sorry

Most professions won't use resources, but their skills will be cooldown-based. If no one was focusing on him, he very well could stand on a ledge and cast forever. As for the point of playing any other profession, it's because their playstyle is enjoyable. Every profession will have similar abilities when it comes to roots/snares/slows because quite a few of those types of skills come from the weapons themselves, along with whatever profession-specific skills they have. Provided the player has the skill, one could kite anyone with any profession.

[BlairPhoenix]

Where are his resources as a caster? What limits him from standing on a ledge and literally casting forever? Whats the point of playing any other class if I can cast roots, snares, slows, and my control on the move and *still* kite you while nuking you down? Obviously there will be ways to close the gap but that seems like a glaring, glaring problem.

---------- Post added 2012-04-18 at 12:39 PM ----------

That also being said where is the actual skill coming from? Line of sighting spells and circle strafing around to get at his back? How is this new? The dodge is a neat mechanic I suppose, but I'm not seeing anything new to the mmo pvp game at this point. You still target to cast spells, you still circle around to do more damage. In fact the only thing I've seen that is different is that players will be penalized for not having the right weapon equipped to deal with set scenario. I can easily see this heading towards ((looking for group pvp, must have xyz weapon equipped))

Double post, sorry

Only thing that limits your abilities are cooldowns. Nothing is limiting him from doing that, though I don't know why you'd think the person he's casting at is just going to let him do it. You act as if no other class can do that, or has ways in countering that playstyle.

I enjoy how many of you when talking about combat just breeze by the dodge ability as if it were a cute side ability. Dodging is an important mechanic. Weapon swapping in combat also adds skill, which requires you both to pick two weapon sets that compliment each other, and knowing when it's best to switch. Because of the fact there is a cooldown on weapon swapping, it isn't something you can do with impunity.

[Tornath]

Most professions won't use resources, but their skills will be cooldown-based. If no one was focusing on him, he very well could stand on a ledge and cast forever. As for the point of playing any other profession, it's because their playstyle is enjoyable. Every profession will have similar abilities when it comes to roots/snares/slows because quite a few of those types of skills come from the weapons themselves, along with whatever profession-specific skills they have. Provided the player has the skill, one could kite anyone with any profession.

That answers a few things I suppose. Why would a melee class want to kite a ranged player (Im excluding survival options entirely. This scenario is strictly in a 1v1 open arena setting). Ranged is going to have the advantage hands down, especially casters with a control based skill set. With the caster never having to stop to cast nukes and able to reapply CC on the fly the melee is going to very quickly burn out his gap closers and get nuked down. Atleast in other mmos the caster has to stop moving to cast harder hitting spells.

[Robot-Nixon]

That answers a few things I suppose. Why would a melee class want to kite a ranged player (Im excluding survival options entirely. This scenario is strictly in a 1v1 open arena setting). Ranged is going to have the advantage hands down, especially casters with a control based skill set. With the caster never having to stop to cast nukes and able to reapply CC on the fly the melee is going to very quickly burn out his gap closers and get nuked down. Atleast in other mmos the caster has to stop moving to cast harder hitting spells.

Some ranged abilities are dependent on how close one is to the target (i.e. the closer you are = more damage done) so there will be moments where the caster will go up close and personal. If the melee has a rifle or bow equipped, that caster won't have range as an advantage. That melee won't be gimped for switching to a ranged weapon, he'll be just as effective as say a Ranger or an Engineer.

[BlairPhoenix]

That answers a few things I suppose. Why would a melee class want to kite a ranged player (Im excluding survival options entirely. This scenario is strictly in a 1v1 open arena setting). Ranged is going to have the advantage hands down, especially casters with a control based skill set. With the caster never having to stop to cast nukes and able to reapply CC on the fly the melee is going to very quickly burn out his gap closers and get nuked down. Atleast in other mmos the caster has to stop moving to cast harder hitting spells.

All Melee classes have the ability to equip a ranged weapon in their second weapon set and be a ranged class themselves. Also your scenario is purely hypothetical as there is no real 1v1 arena scenario and combat isn't based around 1v1. Certain spells are channeled, and casters can't cast while channeling. Melee can snare and immobilize as well as close gaps, and as I said earlier, melee have the ability to go ranged themselves, so it really isn't so cut and dry.

[nocturnus]

That answers a few things I suppose. Why would a melee class want to kite a ranged player (Im excluding survival options entirely. This scenario is strictly in a 1v1 open arena setting). Ranged is going to have the advantage hands down, especially casters with a control based skill set. With the caster never having to stop to cast nukes and able to reapply CC on the fly the melee is going to very quickly burn out his gap closers and get nuked down. Atleast in other mmos the caster has to stop moving to cast harder hitting spells.

You should dismiss the traditional 'melee vs ranged' idea. If you know when to use your abilities you can give any class a run for their money. Especially if you swap weapons based on various situations. That's why I told you to watch more videos. There's a huge difference between people that know how to play (devs for example) and people who don't.

First do the necessary research, afterwards you can ask questions based on that research and actually understand the given answers.

Any question is valid. But if you really want to learn something, you should want a reply that points you towards a source of knowledge. Not the answer itself.

[Deleted]

That would be because it's missing all the procs which dramatically transform the rotation? Also, who spoke of "situational procs"? The quote you present certainly doesn't.

...

situation based priority rotation.

Seriously, I am tired of responding to you, because you are so obviously trolling. There is nothing situation based about the frost rotation at all. The only situation based spells are the ones I listed, and none of those are actually part of the frost rotation.

[BlairPhoenix]

...

Seriously, I am tired of responding to you, because you are so obviously trolling. There is nothing situation based about the frost rotation at all. The only situation based spells are the ones I listed, and none of those are actually part of the frost rotation.

Not sure if Frost DKs have changed since I played, but their 'rotation' was very much situation based. Rime procs and Killing Machine procs would dictate you use the abilities tied to those procs immediately regardless of the regular rotation.

[Delias]

There is nothing situation based about the frost rotation at all.

You're thinking of fight based situational abilities, like "If the boss is doing ____ hit _____"
but if you think of situational abilities in a broader sense, the frost rotation was mostly situational.
Well, I mean, it used to be. Then it became "ARE YOUR DISEASES UP? NO? DO YOU HAVE LESS THAN 70 RP? YES? HIT OBLITERATE LIKE MAAAAAD." But even that is slightly situational, really.

[Imnick]

Not sure if Frost DKs have changed since I played, but their 'rotation' was very much situation based. Rime procs and Killing Machine procs would dictate you use the abilities tied to those procs immediately regardless of the regular rotation.

He doesn't mean situational with regard to procs, he means situational in that in Guild Wars all your abilities except the one on "one" have an extra effect and you have to decide whether to burn it for additional damage or keep it for things like snare, interrupt or gap-closing
Those are two different kinds of situational

It would be like if Frost Strike wasn't only a rotational ability but also your only way to apply AMS

[Lucky_]

...



Seriously, I am tired of responding to you, because you are so obviously trolling. There is nothing situation based about the frost rotation at all. The only situation based spells are the ones I listed, and none of those are actually part of the frost rotation.

At least consider re-reading the sentence you quote before assuming that people are trying to troll you, when all that's happening is you simply not understanding the argument presented because of lack of reading comprehension on your part. Especially when you are this glaringly wrong, as pretty much everyone above me already pointed out.

[DrakeWurrum]

Not sure if Frost DKs have changed since I played, but their 'rotation' was very much situation based. Rime procs and Killing Machine procs would dictate you use the abilities tied to those procs immediately regardless of the regular rotation.

Last I checked... you actually only use those procs if your runes are on cooldown, so not quite.

[terrahero]

Last I checked... you actually only use those procs if your runes are on cooldown, so not quite.

Rime was just a filler, when everything else was on cooldown. Or if Frost Fever was almost falling off (if that was even possible) with the Glyph.
KM was best used on Obliterate, but if the cd on Obliterate was to long (rune's still recharging) you'd just use it i think. Letting it go to waste was a dps loss, so you'd use Frost Strike. You'd also use Frost Strike if you were going to overcap on Runic Power if you used it on Obliterate.

If you wanna be sure i remember a very nice article on it on EJ.

[nocturnus]

All this wow talk is ruining my vicarious enjoyment of GW2.

[Repefe]

All this wow talk is ruining my vicarious enjoyment of GW2.

That's how what if threads work.

[sarasun]

This discussion is pretty pointless, because those are all part of a priority system, which is, to my eyes, just another rotation. No ability in WoW depends on what the boss is doing. (Aside from interrupts, but, those are very, very rare (as in none in DS).

In GW2, your ability usage depends on what the boss is doing, not how often a random generated proc happens.

[Odeezee]

yeah, way to derail the thread guys. so, so sad. anyway, just another week and a half b4 we get to try it out for ourselves.