Heroic Madness pains... in a weird way.

[Mortifera]

My guild is finally 8/8h clearing deathwing tonight. Sadly my pains come from a lack of difficulty from the last boss of an expansion. We spent many many nights, even weeks on spine for my little casual 10m group. We go to pull for the first time tonight and end up killing it after a few (5) silly mistakes. Compared to Sinestra, Nef, Al'akir, Rag and Spine, this fight is a joke. For heavens sake, we had more wipes on heroic morchok and regular deathwing.
In my opinion the last boss of an expansion should be difficult and involve some time. Am I the only one who thinks this fight was waay too easy for being the "big bad" this Xpac?

[prwraith]

preaching to the choir mate my guild and every other one that's cleared it before and after have said the same thing.

[Mortifera]

We all heard the stories it was extremely easy, but we still expected atleast 2-3 nights on the fight.

[Trifande]

We all heard the stories it was extremely easy, but we still expected atleast 2-3 nights on the fight.

Did you try turning OFF the 15% buff? If you are killing the boss NOW, with all the gear you most likely accumulated and with the given buff, perhaps you should consider the entire scenario before 'complaining'. Perhaps turn off the buff and try again? Let's see how well you do.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think Madness IS quite easy (in comparison to other END bosses), but complaining about it not taking 2-3 nights after you most likely have a fuckton of gear AND a 15% buff seems a tad bit immature.

[Mnevis]

Just enough self-deprecation to make it not an obvious self-grats-heroic-madness-is-easy thread, but still... old news.

[Neddi]

People with buffs complaining about content being easy. Entertaining imo.

[Deleted]

People with buffs complaining about content being easy. Entertaining imo.

If you have nothing better to do than be a snotty jerk about it then don't post.

Did you try turning OFF the 15% buff? If you are killing the boss NOW, with all the gear you most likely accumulated and with the given buff, perhaps you should consider the entire scenario before 'complaining'. Perhaps turn off the buff and try again? Let's see how well you do.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think Madness IS quite easy (in comparison to other END bosses), but complaining about it not taking 2-3 nights after you most likely have a fuckton of gear AND a 15% buff seems a tad bit immature.

Heroic Lich King took weeks if not months of attempts for many guilds even at 30% nerf. Heroic Rag was nerfed by 15% for both damage and health and he was still WAY harder that H Madness is now. Buff or no buff the OP has a point.

There's two things that Madness has (or doesn't have) compared to some previous fights:
- Less phases: It has 2 compared to the ~5 of Rag or LK
- Its more about standing still executing numbers than it is about mechanics or reactions, which is why flat % nerfs affect it so much

All in all I had the same experience. We downed Madness and had the nerd scream but it just didn't really feel the same as previous end-bosses had.

[Seriss]

You have a 15% nerf on the encounter. That's 15% off of every mob that spawns there; that's 15% off of every hit of damage that each of them does.

Granted, Madness is easier than Spine - at least on 25-man - but without the nerfs and without 2 months of loot, it would have been even harder. The encounter is by no means a complete pushover by design. It's just that you're outgearing it by now AND slammed the nerfbat on it.

[Sills]

even though ive never done H Madness myself (I have little interest in heroic modes but thats just me) I am close with a guild on my server that does and they have all told me the same thing: that the drop in difficulty from spine to madness is overly drastic. Im not sure why Blizz did this, especially since heroics are supposed to be the extra challenging encounters with the introduction of the LFR system. Hopefully it is not a trend that carries over into MoP and they stick with the T11 and T12 ways of designing heroic encounter final bosses.

[Trifande]

People with buffs complaining about content being easy. Entertaining imo.

If you have nothing better to do than be a snotty jerk about it then don't post.

He is NOT being a snotty jerk. Just because he thinks the OPs opinion ridiculous and does not agree with him does NOT make him a jerk. His first statement was 100% accurate. His second statement was a statement of personal reflection.

Heroic Lich King took weeks if not months of attempts for many guilds even at 30% nerf. Heroic Rag was nerfed by 15% for both damage and health and he was still WAY harder that H Madness is now. Buff or no buff the OP has a point.

There's two things that Madness has (or doesn't have) compared to some previous fights:
- Less phases: It has 2 compared to the ~5 of Rag or LK
- Its more about standing still executing numbers than it is about mechanics or reactions, which is why flat % nerfs affect it so much

All in all I had the same experience. We downed Madness and had the nerd scream but it just didn't really feel the same as previous end-bosses had.

As I mentioned, the previous end bosses were most likely 'harder' than Madness post-nerf (they definitely seemed so when I did each of them during their current-tier progress), but NONE of them were hit with the kind of sweeping buffs that one has available on Madness atm (barring perhaps LK).

As you mentioned urself, the '5' phases of Madness are more pushing the right DPS/HPS numbers at the right time, than about frantically adapting to / reacting to encounter mechanics. Pre-nerf, this made the encounter quite challenging I'm sure. But post-nerf it has definitely taken a large bite out of the encounters difficulty that leaves it feeling a bit gutted (but, the vaunted 'Spine' is also bloody faceroll atm due to the nerfs).

[Resentful]

Madness compared to other end game bosses is truly a joke and I've experienced every boss out their but well lets see BC M'uru and Kil'jaiden and most of old naxx personally other then that I've been up their quite frequently

Our guild here did it the first week of madness 5% granted we pushed it pretty hard since we wanted realm first. Spine took us quite longer and only reason we got spine was because of the tendron nerf thankfully

Anyway compared to any other end bosses such as Sinestra or even Heroic Rag in It's current state pfft

It's not even comparable because It's so underwhelming compared to moss other end encounters; Hell most of T11 Is harder then madness mainly the Elementium Council or pre-nerfed cho'gall really. This is all my opinion personally so don't be screaming at me

The actual madness fight is the 4th platform and once you get the mechanics of Phase 2 It's pretty much and I-win mode unless your healers are bad or your bad with the bloods in the final end phase

Done

Spine took months and months until a korean guilds killed it, Right after spine

Pfft Madness was on their table; That wasn't the case with Rag sinestra yada yada heroic LK even.

0% and Madness was destroyed as 1 2 3 Boom dead World first

[Jainzar]

My guild is finally 8/8h clearing deathwing tonight. Sadly my pains come from a lack of difficulty from the last boss of an expansion. We spent many many nights, even weeks on spine for my little casual 10m group. We go to pull for the first time tonight and end up killing it after a few (5) silly mistakes. Compared to Sinestra, Nef, Al'akir, Rag and Spine, this fight is a joke. For heavens sake, we had more wipes on heroic morchok and regular deathwing.
In my opinion the last boss of an expansion should be difficult and involve some time. Am I the only one who thinks this fight was waay too easy for being the "big bad" this Xpac?

with the 15% nerf and the amount of gear madness heroic is a joke, you're right. pre-nerf and without BiS gear it wasn't that easy tho, at least in 10man.

[Deleted]

It wasn't easy without the buff, atleast on 10man.
You really had to push your dps to kill everything on time.
Its also harder if you don't have certain classes/specs in your comp.

Its ofc nothing compared to Lich King, but if you compare it to lets say Illidan, well I killed Illidan (supposed endboss of the expansion) the first night we got to him.
Madness took about 25~ wipes.
I rather have killable boss than a boss that only 50guys in the world can do without nerfs.

[Deleted]

Spine took months and months until a korean guilds killed it, Right after spine

Pfft Madness was on their table; That wasn't the case with Rag sinestra yada yada heroic LK even.

0% and Madness was destroyed as 1 2 3 Boom dead World first

Spine took 11 days and they killed Madness 3 days later.
And Sinestra was the same. Paragon killed Cho'gall 4 days before Sinestra.

As for the topic there's probably 2 cases relevant here. 15% nerf affects madness a lot, or you're a 25m guild in which case Madness has always been a joke.

[Resentful]

Spine took 11 days and they killed Madness 3 days later.
And Sinestra was the same. Paragon killed Cho'gall 4 days before Sinestra.

As for the topic there's probably 2 cases relevant here. 15% nerf affects madness a lot, or you're a 25m guild in which case Madness has always been a joke.

In any case It's still an undertuned encounter personally, Nerfed or not doesn't matter. Oh well least I don't have to spend my time having my eyes bleed like in heroic LK and unfortunately I couldn't experience M'uru or Kil'jaden so someone wanna compare it to those two who have experience mind you. I'd love to hear it

[Warheart]

Pretty much agree with everyone Else's posts.

The "problem" with Madness is none of the mechanics require anything other than DPS or HPS to overcome, and so gear and nerfs make the fight significantly easier (really?!?!?).

Speaking from a 10-man perspective, the fight felt really well tuned pre-nerf. Our raid wasn't and still isn't BiS geared. During the week we spent on progression we spent most attempts optimising everything to have as much time on the final platform as possible.

Working out a cooldown rotation is simple because everything happens like clockwork. We ignored a lot of the Parasites when Alexstrasza was still up and used Dream/resist AM/RC/Frenzied Regen to survive the AoE.

One of the issues we had was if the Parasite target also took a Crush, they almost always died.

We spent a lot of time working on the 4th platform, eg. getting the Corruption down before the 3rd Impale and then AoEing the Regenerative Blood & Parasite cleanly, and getting the Wing down pre-Cataclysm.

Without a Blood DK (AMS) we opted to kill the Terrors when they spawned rather than tank them until we AoE Congealing Bloods, making our last platform last longer, we had just enough time to zerg the last 5% ignoring the final set of Congealing Blood, else we would hit the hard enrage.

[StaeleAilar]

Heroic Lich King took weeks if not months of attempts for many guilds even at 30% nerf. Heroic Rag was nerfed by 15% for both damage and health and he was still WAY harder that H Madness is now. Buff or no buff the OP has a point.

There's two things that Madness has (or doesn't have) compared to some previous fights:
- Less phases: It has 2 compared to the ~5 of Rag or LK
- Its more about standing still executing numbers than it is about mechanics or reactions, which is why flat % nerfs affect it so much

Yet to kill this myself as my current guild is still on heroic spine but from everything i have heard and seen i definitely agree with this post. Even killing him on normal was so terrible when compared with normal rag and normal lich king in my honest opinion. Ah well.

[Makro]

It was indeed much easier than Rag and Spine, even pre buffs and with lower gear. But honestly, after killing Spine, it was a quite enjoyable fight and I appreciated the fact it went down after only 50ish attempts (for reference, we raid 25man and it took us around 210 attempts to kill Spine).

[Deleted]

Whilst Madness is much easier than Spine I suspect that that difference has been emphasised by the buff. Madness is ultimately a series of dps races the mechanics are very simple. This means that it is effected much more by the buff than some fights.

[Jibjabb]

Spine being harder than Madness isnt unprecedented. Muru was also harder than Kiljaeden.

Anyways I think it was overly easy for an end of expansion boss especially considering how brutal Lich King was. Even Ragnaros the previous boss was extremely difficult before they changed so much. Heck to this day I think Ragnaros is a harder boss than Deathwing is even now. So ya it is kindve annoying but it always happens, everything gets nerfed to shit to the point where solid guilds are bored to tears from the content when its supposed to be the Hard difficulty.

But even if you are talking at full strength Ragnaros still is gobs harder than Deathwing ever was, so was Lich King, so was Muru. Its rather lackluster of a final boss, heres hoping MoP brings us more and holds back on the large nerfs for longer stretches. The initial Spine nerf however was necessary as it became close to impossible to have the DPS without stacking the proper classes. Its just when you pair it with the other % loss of the debuff that it got kinda much