10 man HC warmaster wont die for us

[Deleted]

DPS is not that important for that fight. Just look around for different tactics and try them all out. Some of them will work better than others for you. But if your group is not completely brainless they I'd say the problem is in the tactics you are using. We spend some time blackhorn also trying different tactics and we turned out killing him for 1 night with a tact where we don't soak much, only when we can and focusing all on drakes. Don't take risks with soaking alone etc. Unfortunetely I can't give you more information about the tactics we are using since I am a tank and as one I'm interested in the tanking tactics only. That's on 25man tho, not sure if this will work on 10 man. And I'd say stick with your group if you enjoy raiding with them. Finding a new guild, getting used of the rest takes some time. And it's not worth abandoning friends just for the sake of progress. Still the decision is all up to you. And.. good luck with Blackhorn, he is a bit tricky afterall but you will get it sooner or later.

[Deleted]

Mate, seriously 160 wipes aint that bad considering that you were using "bad" tactic (3 healers)...
Wait till you see spine... (if your dps cant kill tendron in 2 approach then you can leave teh guild).

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Mate, seriously 160 wipes aint that bad considering that you were using "bad" tactic (3 healers)...
Wait till you see spine... (if your dps cant kill tendron in 2 approach then you can leave teh guild).

I would not leave it immediately :-D First few try we could not get past 50% on tendon per one burn phase and then suddenly it got sorted and sometimes we end with a tendon on 30% before the plate is attached back

[petyrit]

We also have problems sometimes when fire bugs and keeps spreading in p2, most frustrating fight in DS, I feel (random falling before the 4th platform on madness has the second place). We were using 3 healers when we first killed it, and our dps was fine (only 1 melee with the 2 tanks, though) . Now we switched to 2 as we outgear it, but I still go oom in the end as people slack and get charged/hit by random stuff. If you have that much wipes and can't progress, I recommend trying different tactics, but only if u are stuck and don't feel you are close to kill with your tactic.

[Tonk]

we dont run WoL anymore as it made alot of ppl fall out over tiny things and i didnt want that happening...

the highest dps is about 30k with players all around 26- 29k dps
not sure we can 2 heal it tbh

we die on silly things as u can guess maybe if someone linked a good video that we can see where we are doing it wrong,
the fire on the ship is the worst thing and the onslught kills us alot 2

I cut some out. Not recording a log because people fall out over silly things, sounds like the group is already beyond redemption, regardless of the numbers. If you want to identify why you went wrong you look at the logs. If your team has been using the logs to mindlessly bash each other, then they are WoL'ing wrong. It's a tool to look and learn, not a bragging tool.

Should you give up and move to another guild in MoP? depends. If you are as guilty as others in any potential bashing via logs, then don't bother, neither you nor they are welcome in most guilds. If you're willing to use a log to learn your own mistakes, and help other people learn theirs in a constructive way, then go ahead and switch guilds.

[Emaias]

Honestly, leave. Content has been nerfed 15% and you're still having trouble with a "Dont stand in the bad boss." Pretty much it's a slighter harder version of Heroic Morchok, absorb some damage, heal it up, DPS the small adds, and dont stand in the bad. I'm not saying this negatively and that any of your players are bad, but it's what I would suggest. Also, guilds killed it with an average ILevel per raider of 395/7ish (I was one of them).

[Aceshigh]

There's one boss for every raid group that just ends up being a HUGE cock block. Warmaster was that for us. We had 8 (and possibly even 9) Ultra kills before we killed Warmaster, it took a disgustingly long time haha. However, after we killed Warmaster we got to 3rd plate on spine in just 3 pulls with a kill the very next week (we only raid 1 time a week for 4 hours). So the boss that everyone says is the hardest, which it was not for my group but I think that's because of the gear farm we had while trying to remove the Blackhorn cock block lol, ended up being SIGNIFICANTLY easier for us than Blackhorn.

In short, if you like the people keep going because everyone has that one boss that just fucks with them endlessly.

[Svetyac]

Tho I am curious about one thing. You wiped 160 times on this boss and haven't done any research to find out that you should be doing this with 2 healers?

[Deleted]

yes i looked into other tactics but i never seen to know whens the time to change it, whats the average for a team on my ilvl and 15% nerf to kill the warmaster hc, i will defo try 2 healing it next raid night

[Mammoon]

As people have said, you need to 2 heal the fight. If your healers can't keep up with the damage, then it might be time to find new healers or a new guild.

Bring as much ranged dps as possible, as it makes the fight significantly easier.

I would give it another night or two of attempts with 2 healers, and see if that fixes anything, but 160 wipes is a ton for this boss with the 15% nerfs.

I recently started raiding with a RL friend's guild on my alt during my non-raid nights (since we raid very little after everything is on farm), and with a group of people who had never killed heroic warmaster before, it took us about 25 wipes (with the 15% nerf). Just make sure you bring as much ranged as possible, and rotate CDs for barrages. Other than that, don't stand in fire, make sure the drakes die in 1 round (except on the last set if you choose), and kill sappers. P2 should only take like 3-5 attempts, and then it should be a kill since it is rather an easy phase.

If your dps aren't able to kill drakes in 1 harpoon round, that's when you know something is wrong (or your dps are bad). It is fine to 3 heal the fight if this is still happening, but there isn't much of a point to 3 heal the fight TBH (this is coming from a healer).

[Markle]

not sure we can 2 heal it tbh

we die on silly things as u can guess maybe if someone linked a good video that we can see where we are doing it wrong,
the fire on the ship is the worst thing and the onslught kills us alot 2

I heal this fight myself as a Disc Priest and with a Holy pally (i am usually holy fyi). Our first day of attempts several weeks ago we tried with 3 healers but found we were quickly getting overwhelmed and decided to go with 2 healers. From a healer perspective the healing is really not that bad and i would highly recommend 2 healing the fight.

The extra dps on drakes/adds means less barrages = less soaking = less ship damage = less fire and less raid damage in general. Make sure you are using raid CD's (tank 4 sets, Aura mastery etc on onslaughts). Your healers will need to get everyone topped before onslaught and people with 2 or more debuffs from barrages (which should be avoided) cannot go in onslaught or they will die.

In P1 We spread our raid out on the deck assigning roughly 2 people to each 1/4 section of the ship for soaking. We have one tank pick up both adds and tank next to the harpoon so melee can cleave the drake and adds when it is reeled in. The offtank plays the role of floater soaking barrages solo for sections that just got hit. This allows soakers debuff to drop off and ideally noone ever has more than one stack of the debuff. When the second set of adds lands the tanks switch rolls and we repeat.

It should be noted when a fire is active in a section barrages will not land there and those soakers can go help other sections until the fire is extinguished.

Here is a link to our 10 man Kill video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vAaNmnyDHg

[Kardone]

Success in Cata raiding: Drop healers, Add DPS.

2 heal it and ensure your dps up their game and make the drakes die in one landing/harpoon. Otherwise you're going to have a lot more barrages than you can realistically deal with as well as an extra 1-3 onslaughts and a Broadside or 2 thus making your boat explode.

I know a lot of people are saying keep at it which is good to not get discouraged and such (top end guilds had what like 400 wipes to heroic spine before kills?), HOWEVER, if people are getting upset over little things they find in World of Logs (the greatest raid improvement tool out there IMO) then you need to find another team of people that actually can take criticism and will strive to improve. Or stay with these guys/gals if they're your friends and just relax a bit and take things a little less seriously. Sometimes in WoW you get lucky and raid with friends AND they are skilled players pushing progression. For me though I've noticed that sometimes you have to choose progression or friendships and there's really nothing wrong with either choice but sitting on the fence between the two is just going to upset you. Source: Personal Experience "Lol Anecdotal Evidence"

As far as beating the fight goes there has been a lot of good advice in this thread. 2 heal it and see how you do.

[aztr0]

Blackhorn died once for my raid group, and we wiped on it a crap load of times last night. Our issue is due to our members. Some of them (mainly DPS) have low IQs and not focused. Sigh... so frustrating.

[Foto]

we dont run WoL anymore as it made alot of ppl fall out over tiny things and i didnt want that happening, as for set up we run with ...
2 tanks...warrior tank, druid tank,
2 melee...dk frost, rogue combat,
3 ranged...lock destro, mage fire, hunter surv,
3 heals.. 2 holy pala, resto shaman

the highest dps is about 30k with players all around 26- 29k dps
not sure we can 2 heal it tbh

Your dps seems really low, 26-30k is pretty bad especially with your ilvl. From what i have read, the more range dps you can get the better so if it is at all possible to sub maybe your dk for a range that would help your raids dps, and also try dropping a healer

One more thing; if your team is serious about getting a kill, finding the issues and addressing them is key, im in a 25man guild and it is honestly the most painful thing to see people complain about not being able to get a kill and when you address them about something they may be doing wrong them getting angry and defensive at you. Your team is at 160+ wipes so having a talk to individual players about their game and what they can do to improve shouldnt hurt their feelings, after all you are there to kill the boss and 160 wipes is a lot. Also taking a break for a week never hurt anybody

[microtonal]

not sure we can 2 heal it tbh

we die on silly things as u can guess maybe if someone linked a good video that we can see where we are doing it wrong,
the fire on the ship is the worst thing and the onslught kills us alot 2

Fire should never, ever kill anyone, regardless of the specifics of the encounter. If you have people who consistently stand in static ground effects, then you need to replace them. Simple as that. That's a basic attention deficiency that doesn't even rise to the level of discussing individual skill. In my experience, the #1 shackle on guild progression is players who just can't be bothered to pay attention to what's going on around them.

If Onslaught is killing you, then not enough people are getting in it. On 10-man, you can get by with having all but the tanks take it (so you don't get people cleaved by adds). Make sure you're using your raid cooldowns. People should be watching the timer and moving towards the center of the boat (or as near as can be done around fire) so that they don't have to run all the way from bow to stern to (not) get there in time.

I'll admit that heroic Warmaster is one of the most frustrating and annoying fights I've ever done as a raider. More than Sindragosa, more than heroic Spine, more than anything I ever did with the derpy casual guild I was in for Firelands and early DS.

Keys to the encounter are:

1) Two heal it. Have your shaman go Elemental or replace them with another ranged DPS. Replacing a healer with another melee will do you no good at all. If your healers aren't strong enough to two-heal, then your problem is systematic, not specific to this particular encounter.

2) Prioritize killing Sappers above everything else, while not lagging on soaking Barrages/Onslaughts while he's out. Tell your DK to set up a DG/IC macro to pull the Sapper away from the cabin to maximize DPS time. If a Sapper makes it to the cabin, you're probably boned. We've never been able to survive it, anyway.

3) Soak Barrages as assiduously as possible until at least the third wave of adds. Assign ranged/healers to sectors and have them soak as many Barrages as they can in their sectors. If the boat is blowing up, then people aren't doing a good enough job with soaking (and/or aren't prioritizing Sappers).

4) Tank the elites near the drake on one side for melee cleaves, as close as you can get. Have the ranged focus on the drake on the other side, then switch to the melee-side drake (if it's still up), then help finish off the elites (Dreadblade first, then Slayer). You can get a head start on the first round of drakes by having your ranged DPS start the fight on TOP of the cabin (on the front left corner, directly above Swayze) to put a bit of damage on the first drake as it goes by. You can also put some damage on the subsequent drakes as they fly over to drop off the elites. And if you can't kill each round of drakes in one harpoon phase, you're going to fall behind on soaking Barrages.

It's possible to DOT up Goriona at the beginning, too, but it requires some pretty precise positioning and timing, and it's only going to burn off 1-2% of her health if you're lucky.

5) Kill off any stray elites before you kill the last drake to push the phase transition. You don't want any extra adds up when the boss comes out.

6) Burn Goriona down to 90% as quickly as possible to force her to the deck, then go nuts on her. Blow personal cooldowns when she comes out (save hero/lust until Blackhorn is at 30% or so, though).

7) PUT NO DAMAGE ON BLACKHORN UNTIL GORIONA IS GONE. ZERO. NONE. ZIP. ZILCH. This cannot possibly be stressed enough. Your tanks should be the only ones doing anything at all to him. No cleaves, no AOE, no Multi-Shot, no nothing.

8) Don't make your Shockwave positioning too complicated. We tried doing the "everyone go left! now everyone go right!" thing, but it was just too hard to get everyone one the same page (we're doing 25-man). So we just set up a fixed stack point and let everyone move on their own to get out of Shockwave, then move back to the fixed stack point. After four or five weeks of painful wiping using the former strategy, we one-shot Blackhorn this week using the latter (we killed him twice in that 4-5 week span, to be fair, but it wasn't pretty).

[Deleted]

yes i looked into other tactics but i never seen to know whens the time to change it, whats the average for a team on my ilvl and 15% nerf to kill the warmaster hc, i will defo try 2 healing it next raid night

You won't kill it with 3 healers unless your dps are shit-hot. Pick your 2 strongest healers and use them.
Sort out cooldown rotations for each onslaught, arrange them expecting about 5-6 onslaughts, that way you won't be caught with your pants down on that 1 extra one that got squeezed in before the boss landed.

[Telestria]

we dont run WoL anymore as it made alot of ppl fall out over tiny things and i didnt want that happening, as for set up we run with ...
2 tanks...warrior tank, druid tank,
2 melee...dk frost, rogue combat,
3 ranged...lock destro, mage fire, hunter surv,
3 heals.. 2 holy pala, resto shaman

the highest dps is about 30k with players all around 26- 29k dps
not sure we can 2 heal it tbh

we die on silly things as u can guess maybe if someone linked a good video that we can see where we are doing it wrong,
the fire on the ship is the worst thing and the onslught kills us alot 2

Your Biggest issue is that you have too many melee, we only had a rogue for melee. Our kill Triumph VS. Heroic Warmaster Blackhorn 10man on youtube I cant link but you can check that out if you like. Good luck!

[sizzlinsauce]

Sounds like you just haven't got the tactics right. Key is killing the drakes and soaking the small swirls. We spent ages wiping in P1 because of that. Not had many tries at P2 yet though, although it looks somewhat simpler and less random.

Oh wait, this is MMO Champion. 160 WIPES U SUX GO BACK TO LFR BADDIE SCRUB, etc.

we did it with everyone soaking big swirls and if you could go ahead and get the small ones got him down in a week or 2 of attempts.

[Briggsta]

Its all about coordinating people soaking the twilight barrages, might help to use a power aura to indicate when you have the debuff. Not standing in the charges from the dreadblades and slayers, and the transition into the boss phase.

[Kritch]

You have a fire mage, A neat little trick is to get them to soak every second onslaught by themselves. Helps ALOT.