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  1. #1

    [MoP] Selfless Healer

    So just wanted to find out others opinions about this talent. i personally love it, but because it seems kinda OP. it takes 2 judges to get yourself an instant flash of light, which at 87 heals me around 80-90k. just think about it, there's no cooldown for it, all you have to wait for is 2 judges, and the cd for that is what like 5.8 seconds? somethin like that. the main reason why i think its OP and needs to be tuned down some is because if it crits, thats around 160-180k instant self heal. which is close enough to LoH. but another thing is that sometimes i'd only get a heal for ~25k, not sure what caused that.

    and i must add that i am ret for this.

    so what do you all think, will it be nerfed? i think so. sadly though.... this would make ret solo really easy =\

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by RoughJustice View Post
    So just wanted to find out others opinions about this talent. i personally love it, but because it seems kinda OP. it takes 2 judges to get yourself an instant flash of light, which at 87 heals me around 80-90k. just think about it, there's no cooldown for it, all you have to wait for is 2 judges, and the cd for that is what like 5.8 seconds? somethin like that. the main reason why i think its OP and needs to be tuned down some is because if it crits, thats around 160-180k instant self heal. which is close enough to LoH. but another thing is that sometimes i'd only get a heal for ~25k, not sure what caused that.

    and i must add that i am ret for this.

    so what do you all think, will it be nerfed? i think so. sadly though.... this would make ret solo really easy =\
    Don't worry, they'll nerf it, as soloing old content is a cookie they reserve for blood DKs.

    Just like the time their "nerf to resto shamans" forced enhancement to choose reduced CD on interrupt or more healing - screwing some of the solos.

    Hmm... this sounds way more negative than i intended. Whatever. I don't think they even care about soloing old content.

  3. #3
    Heals were also terribly OP when the Cata talents came up on the pre-expansion patch. However when we reached level cap, the healing numbers didn't raise even close to the same rate as health pools, so while 100k might be a lot now (I've had 200k FoL with selfless healer+crusader), it might not be that much at level 90.
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  4. #4
    Those big heals are caused by Supplication, which after killing a mob who yields experience, increases the potency of your Flash of Light by 300%. Without killing anything, that 25k heal is normal.
    Little something I picked up from BFBC2 forums.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskobar View Post
    Heals were also terribly OP when the Cata talents came up on the pre-expansion patch. However when we reached level cap, the healing numbers didn't raise even close to the same rate as health pools, so while 100k might be a lot now (I've had 200k FoL with selfless healer+crusader), it might not be that much at level 90.
    This is what I'm thinking at the moment too. It's not going to scale particularly well I think with levelling up, so by the time we are 90 it'll be pretty substandard. And for this reason I hope they don't nerf it, otherwise it'll become nearly useless at the intended level...

    I think Selfless Healer is becoming almost a replacement for the WoG heals we used to be able to pull? As I haven't seen much coming from that

    Really, our heals is what makes Paladins the class to choose. So taking that sort of thing off us is pretty lame, I hope they never do. And since now AW is on a 3 min CD, and I can't see any (if there is one) way to reduce it to a 2 min, it seems like we're potentially going to lose out on our initially high burst DPS and ability to somewhat sustain it. So, we sort of need this healing to balance out the fact I feel we're losing out on DPS figures potentially, to make us more utility based than pure brute force in our roles

    I sort of hope Blizz sees this as well, and then doesn't affect the healing we can pull. It's a super cool skill for Ret =) I've been happy to have it

  6. #6
    Selfless Healer is actually pretty underwhelming on beta. It's not that great, especially considering Flash of Light uses a ton of mana - and in PVP you will probably need that mana for Emancipate.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Selfless Healer is actually pretty underwhelming on beta. It's not that great, especially considering Flash of Light uses a ton of mana - and in PVP you will probably need that mana for Emancipate.
    As it stands I see absolutely no reason for Ret to use Emancipate with how many tools we were given for our mobility. Also, Bank is right. Supplication causes your usual 25k heal to triple to 75-90k. And can crit for a very nice 150-180k. This isn't something you'll see a lot of in Arena, so at 90, you'll mostly get Flash of Light to crit for 50k depending on how numbers are altered.

    Now, as for the choices, as Retribution this is the clear choice. During downtime fights like Atramedes, where we can judge, but nothing else, Flash of light and letting our passive regen take effect is a clear choice, rather than spending Holy power for a shield/absorb.
    Last edited by Eon Drache; 2012-04-22 at 01:27 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    As it stands I see absolutely no reason for Ret to use Emancipate with how many tools we were given for our mobility. Also, Bank is right. Supplication causes your usual 25k heal to triple to 75-90k. And can crit for a very nice 150-180k. This isn't something you'll see a lot of in Arena, so at 90, you'll mostly get Flash of Light to crit for 50k depending on how numbers are altered.

    Now, as for the choices, as Retribution this is the clear choice. During downtime fights like Atramedes, where we can judge, but nothing else, Flash of light and letting our passive regen take effect is a clear choice, rather than spending Holy power for a shield/absorb.
    Sacred Shield does not take Holy Power. Also, if the heal from Eternal Flame is good enough, it may be worth spending the HP on some fights with large amounts of raid damage.

  9. #9
    Eternal Flame currently ticks for 10k on my retri paladin, but none of the numbers matter right now until we hit level 90 and start seeing how much HP we will have. Sacred Shield also costs no HoPo or GCD, but does cost some mana, and like Eternal Flame, it is dispellable.
    Selfless Healer tho, costs a bit of mana too, but our regen at the moment is pretty awesome, I was playing around and I would cast FoL every time I had the 2 necessary stacks for an instant, and my mana was still on 75%+ all the time.
    I guess it will all depend on the numbers, I've had my Selfless Healer with Supplication crit for 300k already, and since it seems that that will be +/- the health pool we'll have in MoP, I guess it's comparable to WoG with Selfless Healer currently on live, except costs no HoP, and has an artificial CD (2 judgements).
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion View Post
    The loss of the ability to pass on loot is the loss of the ability to choose. This is communism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aevra View Post
    It's a #$^&*@ fantasy game. You're a blue space goat riding around on flying serpents killing dragons the size of continents. And you're wondering why a gryphon doesn't look like an eagle?

  10. #10
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    I can see this talent being OP for holy, especially in PvP where fat, instant heals reign supreme. Granted we already have access to instant FoL's, but considering Selfless Healer allows for double the normal potency and guaranteed access to this instant heal every 12 seconds, I just don't see Sacred Shoeld and Eternal Flame (which are do dispellable too) being appealing enough to take. Assuming all 3 talents provide equal throughput increases, the completely cost-free and dispel-protected Selfless Healer pulls away handily IMO.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    As it stands I see absolutely no reason for Ret to use Emancipate with how many tools we were given for our mobility. Also, Bank is right. Supplication causes your usual 25k heal to triple to 75-90k. And can crit for a very nice 150-180k. This isn't something you'll see a lot of in Arena, so at 90, you'll mostly get Flash of Light to crit for 50k depending on how numbers are altered.

    Now, as for the choices, as Retribution this is the clear choice. During downtime fights like Atramedes, where we can judge, but nothing else, Flash of light and letting our passive regen take effect is a clear choice, rather than spending Holy power for a shield/absorb.
    Please don't mention ret mobility and arenas in the same paragraph. It makes you look uninformed. If you try to bg even today without using cleanse you're pretty much useless. A speed boost and snare aren't going to help when you're also snared.
    Last edited by Riptide; 2012-04-22 at 05:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    I can see this talent being OP for holy, especially in PvP where fat, instant heals reign supreme. Granted we already have access to instant FoL's, but considering Selfless Healer allows for double the normal potency and guaranteed access to this instant heal every 12 seconds, I just don't see Sacred Shoeld and Eternal Flame (which are do dispellable too) being appealing enough to take. Assuming all 3 talents provide equal throughput increases, the completely cost-free and dispel-protected Selfless Healer pulls away handily IMO.
    Those instant FoLs are nowhere near free as holy, they cost a whole bunch of mana, and remember now mana is locked to 100k (+2% from meta). While it will serve as a holy shit button to save your team mates in a game or two, it's cost is so high that if you even think of using it every 12 seconds you'll run out of mana ridiculously fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion View Post
    The loss of the ability to pass on loot is the loss of the ability to choose. This is communism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aevra View Post
    It's a #$^&*@ fantasy game. You're a blue space goat riding around on flying serpents killing dragons the size of continents. And you're wondering why a gryphon doesn't look like an eagle?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Selfless Healer is actually pretty underwhelming on beta. It's not that great, especially considering Flash of Light uses a ton of mana - and in PVP you will probably need that mana for Emancipate.
    Pretty much this. I'd rather spend the point in Sacred Shield and get an extra 30% crit for WoG + an absorb every 6 seconds.

    (And what bankopf said, the insane heals you are getting is because of Supplication, which is currently called Crusade on the live realms and increases the healing of Holy Light rather than Flash of Light)
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  14. #14
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskobar View Post
    Those instant FoLs are nowhere near free as holy, they cost a whole bunch of mana, and remember now mana is locked to 100k (+2% from meta). While it will serve as a holy shit button to save your team mates in a game or two, it's cost is so high that if you even think of using it every 12 seconds you'll run out of mana ridiculously fast.
    Ah yes, my mistake of course. I thought Selfless Healer also made those FoL's mana-free for some reason. No wonder that talent seemed so rediculously OP Now my assumption of equal throughput seems idiotic and I can see how this tier exemplifies Blizzard's desire to embrace real choice in each tier. I really like the way this talent tier was designed, and with proper tuning it should be an interesting choice between talents (for holy at least) with high sustainability/low throughput and low sustainability/high throughput.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Sacred Shield does not take Holy Power. Also, if the heal from Eternal Flame is good enough, it may be worth spending the HP on some fights with large amounts of raid damage.
    It takes you 2 hours to respond or something? Cause I edited out the Holy Power reason, as I just noticed it no longer takes a charge.

    Also, to riptide, I know exactly what I'm talking about for mobility. To say "Even today" Would imply that our mobility is getting worse in MoP, which just isn't the case.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    I can see this talent being OP for holy, especially in PvP where fat, instant heals reign supreme. Granted we already have access to instant FoL's, but considering Selfless Healer allows for double the normal potency and guaranteed access to this instant heal every 12 seconds, I just don't see Sacred Shoeld and Eternal Flame (which are do dispellable too) being appealing enough to take. Assuming all 3 talents provide equal throughput increases, the completely cost-free and dispel-protected Selfless Healer pulls away handily IMO.
    Selfless Healer + Long Arm of the Law + Burden of Guilt = funsies in PVP?
    So easy to kite, and so many instant flash heals...

    Holy, that is. For Ret, IMO, it takes a long time for a mediocre heal, unless its a crit. Can't guarantee crits though.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-22 at 09:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    It takes you 2 hours to respond or something? Cause I edited out the Holy Power reason, as I just noticed it no longer takes a charge.

    Also, to riptide, I know exactly what I'm talking about for mobility. To say "Even today" Would imply that our mobility is getting worse in MoP, which just isn't the case.
    And I don't know what you are talking about, the Holy Power reason is still in your post? Last sentence.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-22 at 09:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskobar View Post
    Those instant FoLs are nowhere near free as holy, they cost a whole bunch of mana, and remember now mana is locked to 100k (+2% from meta). While it will serve as a holy shit button to save your team mates in a game or two, it's cost is so high that if you even think of using it every 12 seconds you'll run out of mana ridiculously fast.
    Really shouldn't need to use it every 12 seconds. And the charges stay as long as you continue to judge. And the fact that if the heal is used on a teammate, its 100% stronger... will probably heal for a HUGE chunk of a players health as Holy. Selfless Healer will shine with Holy PvP as long as the other two are dispellable.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Selfless Healer + Long Arm of the Law + Burden of Guilt = funsies in PVP?
    So easy to kite, and so many instant flash heals...

    Holy, that is. For Ret, IMO, it takes a long time for a mediocre heal, unless its a crit. Can't guarantee crits though.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-22 at 09:47 PM ----------


    And I don't know what you are talking about, the Holy Power reason is still in your post? Last sentence.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-22 at 09:55 PM ----------



    Really shouldn't need to use it every 12 seconds. And the charges stay as long as you continue to judge. And the fact that if the heal is used on a teammate, its 100% stronger... will probably heal for a HUGE chunk of a players health as Holy. Selfless Healer will shine with Holy PvP as long as the other two are dispellable.
    Aaaah I love the recent changes to this talent, it's like I unknowingly accidentally predicted the future!

    But yes, BoG + LAotL + Selfless Healer = see ya melee for Holy, you read my mind man! I hope this talent isnt too OP, because I will do anything for more fat, instant-cast heals. Even if it means glorious judgement spamming again.
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  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans rederoin's Avatar
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    With wings up(and the SP trinket) FoL can crit for 50k, so with selfless healer that becomes 50k*2,05 = 102,5k(205k with GoAK!!) ontop of that it reduces the mana cost to zero and makes it instant. and since hast reduces the cd on judgement, I believe that will make haste a really, really good stat in both pvp(assuming we are not carry'ing the flag) and PvE. Then again, I don't know how high FoL crits on beta without selfless healer. So I could be wrong.

    If this is correct, FoL will be better than LoH, on a shorter CD.


    I really doubt it'll stay as strong as it is now.
    Last edited by rederoin; 2012-04-26 at 10:49 AM.

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  19. #19
    Mechagnome ayashi's Avatar
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    Even a 150k crit instant selfheal isn't much if you realise that you'll probably have somthing like 300khp when you ding lvl 90 in quest greens
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  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayashi View Post
    Even a 150k crit instant selfheal isn't much if you realise that you'll probably have somthing like 300khp when you ding lvl 90 in quest greens
    It will heal for that much at 85(102,5k without GoAk, 205k with GoAK). assuming FoL won't get nerfed in terms of healing.
    Well.. on other players that is. But as a healer that kinda is your job.
    Last edited by rederoin; 2012-04-26 at 12:26 PM.

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