Not Requiring ID's to vote, good idea?

[Jarlathe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZws98jw67g

I agree that the voting machines which Diebold designed has MAJOR flaws.

Hacking Democracy (long watch but very serious)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hNxB...eature=related

Visa, Mastercard, American Express and IRS should be used for elections (they can track you down for a dollar, they can definately keep track of peoples votes.)

Worst idea ever. The last things you want is corporations handling any part of the vote. Go read up on what these beloved corporations do when they don't like the current government that has been elected in other countries (Google banana wars for a great read). Now give them a way to "fix" the elections more to their liking with very little to no accountability? No thanks.

[Tonystark]

Worst idea ever. The last things you want is corporations handling any part of the vote. Go read up on what these beloved corporations do when they don't like the current government that has been elected in other countries (Google banana wars for a great read). Now give them a way to "fix" the elections more to their liking with very little to no accountability? No thanks.

Well besides corporations, who would be the best at keeping track and having a high % of correct information ie votes, who voted, region etc etc. Unfrotunately were not going to get away from the human factor + temptation or corruption.

[Wells]

We have few convictions you mean. Your stats provide no talk whatsoever of instances that have not resulted in charges (because the person couldn't be found) or any other circumstances. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

If you think there are more then by all means show it. Its not my job to show the frequency fraud occurs at.

Millions? Gonna need some proof of millions.

Already provided. 22% of African Americans, 1 in 5 seniors etc.

So then you agree that since there is demonstrable risk of voter fraud, restricting access to voting (through requiring a photo ID that you are given for free) is reasonable?

I'm saying that if there was a demonstrable serious voter fraud problem I'd be more inclined to take voter ID laws seriously, though I doubt they're the best solution.

[Jarlathe]

Well besides corporations, who would be the best at keeping track and having a high % of correct information ie votes, who voted, region etc etc. Unfrotunately were not going to get away from the human factor + temptation or corruption.

The government. I'd rather have a shitty system that may let a handful of people double vote then a system that handed the keys over to the corporations to do as they see fit.

[Prokne]

The government. I'd rather have a shitty system that may let a handful of people double vote then a system that handed the keys over to the corporations to do as they see fit.

It would probably be the stupidest thing in the world for a company that makes voting computers to rig them in order to win an election. The government knows exactly who made the machines and it would be easily traceable back to them and they would be in serious trouble.

Now what corporations can do is give unlimited amounts of money to campaigns and then lobby the politicians afterwards to get what they want. Its easy and 100% legal.

I would be more worried about anonymous hacker groups somehow getting viruses into the computers but I think that is next to impossible. I dont know for sure how they work(I always vote absentee) but I believe they print out your ballot for you to review before you cast it. It is then counted by a machine the same way ballots have been counted for years.

[Mathyou]

Meh. Don't really know what to say other than...old news? What can we do about it if anything?

[Swargle]

@Puzzlebox
I never said I did or didn't support it, and I stated free ID as the only way around the amendment. What is the point of your response?

@Artemishunter1
Irrelevant. While it may not be spelled out in the constitution, It is recognized that every citizen 18+ has a right to vote, and there are many amendments setting rules against discrimination.

My point is this, despite the debate raging in here about good/bad and the effects of Voter ID laws. As long as the Voter ID law would require you to spend money to acquire your proof of eligibility, they are unconstitutional, period.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1339830.html

And before anyone gets huffy about the source, it was just the first google result, and I grabbed it.

[Jarlathe]

It would probably be the stupidest thing in the world for a company that makes voting computers to rig them in order to win an election. The government knows exactly who made the machines and it would be easily traceable back to them and they would be in serious trouble.

Many companies have done many stupid and illegal things over the years. Hell, look at the whole financial collapse and bail out fiasco that just happened. When there is so little risk involved, and the payoff is so large, it really wouldn't surprise me. Also, it would be pretty easy to pull off a massive, wide-scale fraud with this sort of voting and get away with it.

Now what corporations can do is give unlimited amounts of money to campaigns and then lobby the politicians afterwards to get what they want. Its easy and 100% legal.

This is another topic outside of voting fraud, but it is also another major issue with the whole political system. Yes, there are "limits" on what a company can give a party, but we all know that there are so many ways around it.

I would be more worried about anonymous hacker groups somehow getting viruses into the computers but I think that is next to impossible. I dont know for sure how they work(I always vote absentee) but I believe they print out your ballot for you to review before you cast it. It is then counted by a machine the same way ballots have been counted for years.

I have no doubt that this is also something that we will (maybe) start hearing more and more about in the future. These computer systems have been show time and time again (GoogleFu) that they are unsecured, or plain sloppy security on these systems, making them just ripe for some buggery. Hell, it wouldn't shock me in the least if this has already been the case before.

[ElliotBoudin]

I never leave the house with out my driver's license and I have a great friend who has no driver's license but maintains a State ID. This is something you need regularly for all kinds of transactions so if you can't produce one for voting purposes it seems to me you have bigger issues to deal with than trying to make sure your vote is counted. It isn't that difficult to obtain and it doesn't cost that much. Plus they accept other forms of ID such as passports and social security cards so why is this even an issue?

[Twiddly]

Not only do I think wwe should require ID's to vote, but I think we should expand it to more things. Pay for anything with a credit/debit card? Need proof of ID. (I'm sure the banks could come up with some way to allow you to have an "ID CODE" online) collect your welfare? Need an ID (And pass a drug test. Tired of my money going to some jackasses drug habit)

[Wells]

Not only do I think wwe should require ID's to vote, but I think we should expand it to more things. Pay for anything with a credit/debit card? Need proof of ID. (I'm sure the banks could come up with some way to allow you to have an "ID CODE" online) collect your welfare? Need an ID (And pass a drug test. Tired of my money going to some jackasses drug habit)

Florida did this and spent more money than they saved.

[Kagonos]

I never leave the house with out my driver's license and I have a great friend who has no driver's license but maintains a State ID. This is something you need regularly for all kinds of transactions so if you can't produce one for voting purposes it seems to me you have bigger issues to deal with than trying to make sure your vote is counted. It isn't that difficult to obtain and it doesn't cost that much. Plus they accept other forms of ID such as passports and social security cards so why is this even an issue?

As has been pointed out, it is literally unconstitutional to charge any amount of money in order to vote (it's called a poll tax.) If the form this takes is you spending even $0.01 to obtain a "voter's ID" (be it a driver's license, state ID, or whatever) that would make it unconstitutional regardless of how "affordable" or "easy" it might be to obtain. A social security card has never been brought up as an acceptable form of ID since it literally proves nothing. Passports are also not free. It isn't that we who oppose such measures want more (or any) voter fraud, it's that we prefer to make and keep voting as easy as possible so that MORE voters participate in our elections.

And to Twiddly, as Wells responded to your misconception that your hard-earned dollars are going to "jackasses drugs habit(s)" i refer you here:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us...rug-tests.html

[BLCalliente]

As has been pointed out, it is literally unconstitutional to charge any amount of money in order to vote (it's called a poll tax.) If the form this takes is you spending even $0.01 to obtain a "voter's ID" (be it a driver's license, state ID, or whatever) that would make it unconstitutional regardless of how "affordable" or "easy" it might be to obtain. A social security card has never been brought up as an acceptable form of ID since it literally proves nothing. Passports are also not free. It isn't that we who oppose such measures want more (or any) voter fraud, it's that we prefer to make and keep voting as easy as possible so that MORE voters participate in our elections.

And to Twiddly, as Wells responded to your misconception that your hard-earned dollars are going to "jackasses drugs habit(s)" i refer you here:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us...rug-tests.html

Oh those silly poor people without driver's licenses!

Don't they know they can just use their passports?

[eriseis]

Oh those silly poor people without driver's licenses!

Don't they know they can just use their passports?

As much as I'd hate bringing this thread back to life, passports are much more difficult and expensive to obtain than drivers licenses. Someone who doesn't have a license (or ID) is probably exponentially less likely to have a passport.