Purgatory Discussion

[nevermore]

You are on 100% HP.
You take a hit for 500.000 damage. You don't die, you're still at 100% hp but you gain a debuff that absorbs 500.000 healing. If you don't get healed for 500.000 in the next 3 seconds you die.

This makes it less desirable in PvE compared to Cauterize, because you can't soak big-hitting boss mechanics all by yourself. It's a good talent, but the 3-second window makes it somewhat situational and limited in use.

[Normafex]

You are on 100% HP.
You take a hit for 500.000 damage. You don't die, you're still at 100% hp but you gain a debuff that absorbs 500.000 healing. If you don't get healed for 500.000 in the next 3 seconds you die.

This makes it less desirable in PvE compared to Cauterize, because you can't soak big-hitting boss mechanics all by yourself. It's a good talent, but the 3-second window makes it somewhat situational and limited in use.

not right, it says overkill so: u are at 100% hp (200k) u take 500k hit, you dont die, are still at 100% but have a debuff for 300k which would have been the overkill, u get healed for 300k in 3 sec u live, you dont you die.
still less desireable than cauterize, but better...eg. impale on madness hc does 450k dmg, if u dont have your cd ready u would usually die, with this i would get an 200k overkill which is healable in 3 sec also i would probaly have a bloodshield up also....so yeah it kinda just a new 2 min cd..i like it, still would never use it as a dd. if u need this as a dd only on occasions like ultraxion where u have to take a hour of twilight or something like that...

[Kamiyomi]

i think people are forgetting that you can swap your talent points on the fly. The whole point of the comparison between the "situational" uses of AMZ vs Purg. are negated by the fact that you just use the better one for the fight. As a tank, on most encounters ill be swapping this talent across all 3 of the talents. AoE bosses, get AMZ; Gibbers: purg.; Hagara-type and consistant relatively high single target, get Lichborne. as DPS i'll probably only be taking AMZ save for a few select encounters where Purg might be more useful.

[Darnassian]

Why didn't blizzard just say so lol.

Seriously?

You couldn't put it together by reading the spell description? that's pathetic

---------- Post added 2012-04-26 at 10:35 AM ----------

You are on 100% HP.
You take a hit for 500.000 damage. You don't die, you're still at 100% hp but you gain a debuff that absorbs 500.000 healing. If you don't get healed for 500.000 in the next 3 seconds you die.

This makes it less desirable in PvE compared to Cauterize, because you can't soak big-hitting boss mechanics all by yourself. It's a good talent, but the 3-second window makes it somewhat situational and limited in use.

Keep in mind that it will not be popping up for some major "one shot" mechanic that was failed to interrupt or avoid (as those mechanics tend to be interruptable or avoidable), it will be for the surprise or unlucky hit that would overkill the tank by like 30k damage.

[Wih]

I doubt it. Take the other cheat death mecanics already ingame, they all work only on the one hit that would have killed you.
Besides, "immortal for 3s" would be beyond foolish, specially with things like Lay on Hands followup.

Small niggle - Cheat Death has a duration of 3 seconds after the initial mechanic, that reduces damage taken by 80%, and Iceblock can take multiple hits, as can bubble. Only Cauterise can only take 1 hit and doesn't provide anything additional.

[Toroc]

To people doing math and such- chill out. We don't even know what all it entails before people start to actually QQ about it and say where it will be less desirable (not to mention some of the hypothetical scenarios that I've read were not even logical).

Right now it sounds awesome and it has it's own unique spin on it (the healing part) but until we an actually play with don't make yourself look retarded by QQing about something you near completely ignorant of.

[Wih]

To people doing math and such- chill out. We don't even know what all it entails before people start to actually QQ about it and say where it will be less desirable (not to mention some of the hypothetical scenarios that I've read were not even logical).

Right now it sounds awesome and it has it's own unique spin on it (the healing part) but until we an actually play with don't make yourself look retarded by QQing about something you near completely ignorant of.

Ideally we should know 100% of its function by the tooltip. We have knowledge of how it works, that means we aren't ignorant of it.
Unless the tooltip is not descriptive of the function, or the entire community commenting on it is misinterpreting it (and this misinterpretation is found through practical use), your comment is baseless.
Something sounding awesome doesn't mean it can't be overpowered. The general consensus is that a passive cheat death mechanic is, until proven otherwise, overpowered.

[nevermore]

not right, it says overkill so: u are at 100% hp (200k) u take 500k hit, you dont die, are still at 100% but have a debuff for 300k which would have been the overkill, u get healed for 300k in 3 sec u live, you dont you die.

Actually it doesn't say overkill anywhere in the description:

when you would sustain fatal damage, you instead are wrapped in a Shroud of Purgatory, absorbing incoming healing equal to the amount of damage prevented,

Which would mean in the previous theoretical situation that if you're at 200k (100%) health and take a 500k hit, the damage prevented is 500k since you stay at your original health.

We know very little about this spell as of yet so I'm not arguing with you :3

But yeah, it looks really promising for tanks, especially since it's triggered automatically.

[pimpeddakota]

My question is lets say your with a priest... Priest pops Void Shift "You and the currently targeted party or raid member swap health percentages. Increases the lower health percentage of the two to 25% if below that amount." Is that going to be considered a heal to the DK? If so the talent is in no way a bad talent.

In PvE it gives that healer a chance to save you in PvP it's a hard call. No healer wants to let there DPS die but no healer wants to take his HP down to 25% either.

edit: before anybody says anything - open world pvp due to void is a 6 min cd

[OniXiion]

My question is lets say your with a priest... Priest pops Void Shift "You and the currently targeted party or raid member swap health percentages. Increases the lower health percentage of the two to 25% if below that amount." Is that going to be considered a heal to the DK? If so the talent is in no way a bad talent.

In PvE it gives that healer a chance to save you in PvP it's a hard call. No healer wants to let there DPS die but no healer wants to take his HP down to 25% either.

edit: before anybody says anything - open world pvp due to void is a 6 min cd

Tyvi posted a video of the implemented Purgatory talent on the Elitist Jerks Death knight forum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDIBvYu46dw


Seems that the talent sets your HP 1 and then puts up the Shroud Debuff for the immunity and for the amount that healing absorb it has.
Tyvi then uses Death Pact @ 0:12 to heal the (14945 absorbed healing) and then +75,567 'over-heal' to the death knights health. So Death Pact healed for 50% of her health, and then got absorbed from the debuff.

It is very likely the Priest's Void Shift will set the Death Knight's health to 25% via a heal that will be absorbed by the debuff. If the Fatal damage is greater than 25% of the Death Knights health, the Shroud could finish its duration and kill the DK again.

[Xene]

Currently bugged in beta, so i had to turn mine off as i was leveling. The bug is anytime you death grip something, the Shroud is enabled anddddd youll die. Other than that it seems to work for what its supposed to do, just dont DG anything.

[fangless]

Argent Defender was super OP in Wrath, this will be the same if the base mechanic is left alone.

Any good tank would tank this, even if it just avoids a 5k overkill hit. If it doesn't save you from a million damage mechanic, well, too bad, neither would AMZ.

[Warhunt]

My understanding of it is that you cannot die while the 3s buff is active, but any additional damage you take in that time has to be outhealed too.

Yeah pretty much how I read it. For 3 seconds you basically get given infinite life (going up (or rather down) to -infinity), and if you don't end up in the positive figures after that 3 seconds you pop your clogs.

I have 40,000 left. Get hit for 80k.
I then start the 3 second buff and have -40,000 life.
1 seconds - Get hit again for 100k, have -140k life.
2nd second - Get healed for 70k, have -70k life
3rd second - Die.

[pimpeddakota]

Tyvi posted a video of the implemented Purgatory talent on the Elitist Jerks Death knight forum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDIBvYu46dw

It is very likely the Priest's Void Shift will set the Death Knight's health to 25% via a heal that will be absorbed by the debuff. If the Fatal damage is greater than 25% of the Death Knights health, the Shroud could finish its duration and kill the DK again.

dont you mean it will be your HP at that of the Priest...If the priest is at 100% HP it puts YOUR hp at 100% and the priest at 25%...

[OniXiion]

dont you mean it will be your HP at that of the Priest...If the priest is at 100% HP it puts YOUR hp at 100% and the priest at 25%...

Oh my bad, reading comprehension ftl.

But yes it will through a 100% heal at the DK, and the absorb debuff will take out its chunk. Same with a Paladin's Lay on Hands if you were trying to save the DK with it.

[pimpeddakota]

only thing is Lay on Hands only gives you the HP value of the paladin... so a healadin with lets say 150K hp only heals 150K hp... the priest gives you whatever % the priest HP is... so will heal for more than lay on hands... drawback is well the 25% priest now lol

Looks to be an interesting xpac

edit:
By the look of this if other tanks don't get some clutch spell DK's might lead the tanking during this xpac.

[DarksideBeckons]

It doesn't sound like much, but 3 seconds can be a Holy Light, greater heal, or a couple HoT ticks, which just might do the trick.

[Iskra22]

Its clearly intended to solve the problem that DK's had on harder hitting heroic bosses, namely that their "blocking" substitute requires them to get hit and survive before they can heal up the damage. A block cuts X% damage off every hit just by its nature, death strike heals back X% of the damage, but it doesn't work if the hit killed you. Now you can heal up after that hit regardless of it being "fatal"

The ability isn't designed to let you soak some enormous hit intended to be fatal. If you try to soak a second impale without cooldowns, and get hit for like 800k, this isn't going to save you. Well possibly with a guardian spirit or some other external cooldown, but well, that's true without purgatory. If you're a dps, and soak a huge hit that "kills" you, odds are good you're dead anyway. It's unlikely that healers will react, and dump the required huge amount of healing on you in 3 seconds. And even if they do, the solution is to not stand in the bad shit, not "choose talents that keep me alive while pissing off the healers immensely"

[BoomChickn]

Well, with this talent, vampiric blood and two death strikes can make almost anything counted by DS (Impale isn't as far as I know) survivable. At a 29% heal boosted by a glyphed vamp blood to 40%, two death strikes can reverse 80% of the damage you took. This can be planned to use on a huge spike and then simply heal it all back with a vamp blood.

But yeah this is too much use to dk tanks compared to other specs in this situation. They would have to buff the others for blood or nerf this to be comparable to dps.