MOP Warrior Concerns.

[HolgerDK]

Picture link is 404.

[Kreeshak]

I read someone making a good point.

Why was Dragon Roar stun considered OP when it "didn't allow people to react" on a one minute cd for 3 seconds when Deep Freeze is on a 30 second cool down and doesn't allow people to react for 5 seconds and IS BASELINE and effectively allows a mage to easily triple a warrior's burst in the same duration.

I'm going hunter just so I can shit on mages for all of the years they've hard countered us.

THIS and copied.

[HolgerDK]

I'm sorry, warriors, but as these last 8 years have taught us, warriors aren't allowed to have a good performance in 1v1. This is because of their very mechanics being based around high burst of physical damage which is fast and easy to dish out, not requiring ramp up. That means, for balance's sake, that they must have low survivability and extra vulnerability to control spells in order for the opponent to stand a chance at defeating them.

Most classes in the game have more tools to control/escape/survive than warriors have to counter them. That makes warriors a very bad choice for 1v1 pvp and only truly functional when it's about 2v1 or the opponent just doesn't have the right tools to fight them (ex: locks, priests).

It's truly sad that people who play warriors refuse to understand this and still hope they will do better at solo pvp. When warriors were indeed very strong for this purpose, they quickly got the nerfbat.

This post demonstrates why drugs are bad.

[Armourboy]

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised, we knew it was coming sooner or later, they always do it while leaving classes like Mages and Rogues OP as heck expansions after expansion.

[Tabartank]

I read someone making a good point.

Why was Dragon Roar stun considered OP when it "didn't allow people to react" on a one minute cd for 3 seconds when Deep Freeze is on a 30 second cool down and doesn't allow people to react for 5 seconds and IS BASELINE and effectively allows a mage to easily triple a warrior's burst in the same duration.

I'm going hunter just so I can shit on mages for all of the years they've hard countered us.

They can glyph if to not have a GCD also. So now they get 1 more spell inside their shatter combo.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 05:34 PM ----------

I'm sorry, warriors, but as these last 8 years have taught us, warriors aren't allowed to have a good performance in 1v1. This is because of their very mechanics being based around high burst of physical damage which is fast and easy to dish out, not requiring ramp up. That means, for balance's sake, that they must have low survivability and extra vulnerability to control spells in order for the opponent to stand a chance at defeating them.

Most classes in the game have more tools to control/escape/survive than warriors have to counter them. That makes warriors a very bad choice for 1v1 pvp and only truly functional when it's about 2v1 or the opponent just doesn't have the right tools to fight them (ex: locks, priests).

It's truly sad that people who play warriors refuse to understand this and still hope they will do better at solo pvp. When warriors were indeed very strong for this purpose, they quickly got the nerfbat.

It's truely sad when people like you still think this game is balanced around 1v1 and refuse to understand this and still hope the game will be balanced around 1v1.

[Pua]

It's truely sad when people like you still think this game is balanced around 1v1 and refuse to understand this and still hope the game will be balanced around 1v1.

"Perhaps... There is a better question".

Why can't warriors be self-sufficient?

[Askemaboutmylore]

The only thing I really do not like is the homogenization of the stances.

Like, seriously? Why? All they're there for now is different rage generation styles, and even that isn't much of a big deal between stances.

Pretty much all it is now is "Jump into beserker stance and get some rage, then jump into defensive stance if you're tanking/pvping for the 15% less damage taken".

---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 01:09 AM ----------

The only thing I really do not like is the homogenization of the stances.

Like, seriously? Why? All they're there for now is different rage generation styles, and even that isn't much of a big deal between stances.

Pretty much all it is now is "Jump into beserker stance and get some rage, then jump into defensive stance if you're tanking/pvping for the 15% less damage taken".

It's truely sad when people like you still think this game is balanced around 1v1 and refuse to understand this and still hope the game will be balanced around 1v1

It's 'truely' sad when people like you still think this game is balanced at all and refuse to understand this and still hope the game will be balanced in any way, shape or form.

[Flaks]

"Perhaps... There is a better question".

Why can't warriors be self-sufficient?

I've been wondering the same thing for the past three expansions.

What can possibly be going through the developer's minds in sticking to the tired and useless old idea of keeping warriors (AND ONLY WARRIORS) reliant on at least one other player to be able to do what literally every single other class can do alone.

[Ferg]

I've been wondering the same thing for the past three expansions.

What can possibly be going through the developer's minds in sticking to the tired and useless old idea of keeping warriors (AND ONLY WARRIORS) reliant on at least one other player to be able to do what literally every single other class can do alone.

i fail to see how it matters that we require a partner, seeing as any form of pvp that matters will have you paired with at least one

[Pua]

i fail to see how it matters that we require a partner, seeing as any form of pvp that matters will have you paired with at least one

I think you need to read what he said. To clarify, I'll paint it somewhat differently.

Every class in the game has a level of self-sufficiency that doesn't depend on their team mate. All except one; warriors.

Why are warriors the ONLY class in the game where they're dependent on a team mate? Why are other melee classes not put in the same boat?

[Arganaut]

I think you need to read what he said. To clarify, I'll paint it somewhat differently.

Every class in the game has a level of self-sufficiency that doesn't depend on their team mate. All except one; warriors.

Why are warriors the ONLY class in the game where they're dependent on a team mate? Why are other melee classes not put in the same boat?

I'm a noob to Warriors, but please explain your last sentence some more?

[Ferg]

Why are warriors the ONLY class in the game where they're dependent on a team mate? Why are other melee classes not put in the same boat?

...because different classes are different? why are any classes the only classes that have to deal with certain stupid shit? to be honest, if this is our biggest problem, then i'm not worried at all, because our problem is fixable by playing with teammates....in an MMO. damn.

[Armourboy]

...because different classes are different? why are any classes the only classes that have to deal with certain stupid shit? to be honest, if this is our biggest problem, then i'm not worried at all, because our problem is fixable by playing with teammates....in an MMO. damn.

I would buy that argument if it wasn't the case that only one class is different. When every other melee is fairly self sufficient but one, thats not " different classes are different" thats " one class is at a disadvantage ". Now I'm not gonna cry about it, PvP just doesn't matter that much to me, but I can definately understand the frustration players have with it. Its also a bit hard to swallow when the lead developer is known to play the class that hard counters you. He may not be biased, but knowing human nature its gonna be real hard for anyone to believe he's not ( especially when that class has crazy damage and every patch just seems to get more and more).

[Kreeshak]

...because different classes are different? why are any classes the only classes that have to deal with certain stupid shit? to be honest, if this is our biggest problem, then i'm not worried at all, because our problem is fixable by playing with teammates....in an MMO. damn.

only that it is not fixable when dispell is on a 8 second cd and when the dispeller has the luxury to choose a less breast-feeding dependant class. It is not a coincidence that on trade chat nobody looked for a warrior to team up with. Why pick a can't stand on my own warrior over a jack of all trades rogue?

/edit. I can link a post about a multiple glad warrior from us, who his friends insisted on him playing on his - much less experience with - rogue over his in need of baby sitting warrior.

[Pua]

...because different classes are different? why are any classes the only classes that have to deal with certain stupid shit? to be honest, if this is our biggest problem, then i'm not worried at all, because our problem is fixable by playing with teammates....in an MMO. damn.

I get the feeling you're trolling.

But let's assume you're not.

In group PvP, which I imagine you can accept is where the balance is supposed to be applied, certain compositions dominate because they play well together. Things like their CC don't share DR's or known strengths cover up known weaknesses; that type of thing. When you build a successful team, you look to figure out which players have the greatest strengths and which have weaknesses that can be accounted for relatively easily.

That's the rub.

Pretty much no other class requires the same level of babysitting a warrior does. Previously, the tradeoff was their capability to dish out lashings of damage when required or at least pressure players enough to set up kills. Now... Not so much. So when you're building a team, you simply decide to omit the warrior because the rogue, Feral, DK or paladin might not be able to put out the same levels of damage, but they're far harder to mark out of the game and ignore.

[kooboi]

i could of swear that one of the blue post during cata beta mention something about "bring the player and not the class," im assuming its gone now?

[Kreeshak]

they are buffing protection warrior and I am under the impression they haven't considered pvp consequenses and how undesirable the two other stances will be:

-- Increased damage reduction from Defensive Stance from 15% to 25%.

[Synche]

they are buffing protection warrior and I am under the impression they haven't considered pvp consequenses and how undesirable the two other stances will be:

-- Increased damage reduction from Defensive Stance from 15% to 25%.

I will take the 10% buff gladly , but I won't sit in Defensive stance, rage generation is terrible. I will switch to it when I need to play defensively, much like how it was designed.

[Flaks]

i could of swear that one of the blue post during cata beta mention something about "bring the player and not the class," im assuming its gone now?

Basically everything said about PvP right before Cataclysm launch was complete and utter bullshit and holds no weight whatsoever (despite it being literally the most clear headed and common sense ideas that EVERYONE agreed with). "CC arms race"? LOL NOPE. "Ridiculous burst"? LOL NOPE. Fixed dispel system? "LOL NOPE.

[Deleted]

I think you need to read what he said. To clarify, I'll paint it somewhat differently.

Every class in the game has a level of self-sufficiency that doesn't depend on their team mate. All except one; warriors.

Why are warriors the ONLY class in the game where they're dependent on a team mate? Why are other melee classes not put in the same boat?

OK, I keep hearing this. Please run down the list of classes, all of them one by one, and list in which way you think they are superior to the warrior. I can right now tell you with 100% certainty that the majority of whine about any class is "the grass is greener on the other side". You've got one, maybe two perspectives, and you are incredibly biased, as such your opinion is worth less than the shoe my dog-that-I-never-had ate.

The whine will never under any circumstance stop. This is the fourth expansion release for which I browser forums, and this is the fourth time the exact same thing happens. Infact, it's not even isolated on expansion releases, it's just people being so incredibly entitled thinking that their class should be the one class that's above everyone else, or they are ignorant and/or bad to the point of them thinking the class is worse than it is.