[MoP Balance] T14 Set-Bonus Discussion

[Ranklune]

Item - Druid T14 Balance 2P Bonus - New: Your Starfall deals 20% additional damage.
Item - Druid T14 Balance 4P Bonus - New: Increases the duration of your Moonfire and Sunfire spells by 3 sec.

I don't know if people already opened a thread to discuss the Tier set-bonuses, if so, this thread could be locked again.

If not? Then please discuss about these set-bonuses, what do you think? Are they powerful? Are they not?

[Miraclous]

According to EJ the 2P bonus is a dmg increase of <1% and the 4P bonus increases dmg by about 2.5% on singletarget fights. More interesting about this is that both these bonussus actually have an effect on our AoE dmg, where we had only singletarget bonussus in Cata after T11.
However the fact that they first go in and reduce the Moonfire/Sunfire duration by 6 seconds and then give a set bonus that increases it again by 3 seconds is a really unfair move.

[timbaLt]

Once again Boomkins will only be good at AoE (still probably worse than Fire Mages) and subpar on single target fights.

Glad I'm planning on going Resto.

[Juvencus]

Ghostcrawler Port :There are a lot of class changes for players to get used to in a new expansion. Immediately jumping into set bonus that make rotations more interesting is sort of wasted design space because players often aren't even used to their normal rotations yet. We typically start an expansion with pretty simple set bonuses and work our way up to more elaborate ones.

Reducing DoT timers though is plain stupid...

[NightZero88]

Ghostcrawler Port :There are a lot of class changes for players to get used to in a new expansion. Immediately jumping into set bonus that make rotations more interesting is sort of wasted design space because players often aren't even used to their normal rotations yet. We typically start an expansion with pretty simple set bonuses and work our way up to more elaborate ones.

Reducing DoT timers though is plain stupid...

Once again Blizz implying that it will take players an entire tier to learn how to play the class they've likely been playing for years. Way to have faith in us Blizz. Because the boomkin rotation was oh so challenging and you even made it harder by adding in more buttons...oh wait no, you dumbed it down even more than it was before. Good call Blizz. We'll certainly need months and months to learn this new and challenging rotation. /sarcasm.

[Keiyra]

Such a debbie downer. Lay off the bitter pill.

GC has a point, classes will be changing, so will rotations (more for some classes than others) - it doesn't hurt to start off with simpler set bonuses - not everyone in the mass market they are trying to appeal to handles changes as easily as you might - and there will be new players too.

Besides that's been the way its been since at least what, tier 7? maybe earlier? First tier is a simple bonus. It gives you something to look forward to as new content and tiers come out. (Heck for some of the earlier tiers the bonuses were so bad and the gear so poorly itemized for some classes they just wore non tier gear - like holy pallies for a while back in wrath)

[NightZero88]

Such a debbie downer. Lay off the bitter pill.

GC has a point, classes will be changing, so will rotations (more for some classes than others) - it doesn't hurt to start off with simpler set bonuses - not everyone in the mass market they are trying to appeal to handles changes as easily as you might - and there will be new players too.

Besides that's been the way its been since at least what, tier 7? maybe earlier? First tier is a simple bonus. It gives you something to look forward to as new content and tiers come out. (Heck for some of the earlier tiers the bonuses were so bad and the gear so poorly itemized for some classes they just wore non tier gear - like holy pallies for a while back in wrath)

Considering the track Blizz has I think I'm perfectly justified in calling them garbage. I still play the game because it's enjoyable in some regards but Blizz has screwed the pooch at almost every turn.

Also, I don't think it's good marketing to call your customer base too stupid to be able to handle a neat set bonus and changes to their rotation.

[Skyepic]

I find it interesting that most 2pc bonuses was a flat damage increase to a classes main nuke/attack. Yet for us it was a damage increase to one of our cooldowns? Seems kind of odd. 4pc bonuses are just kinda all over the place. Our 4pc is pretty bland but at the same time i'm not one to judge a class by how awesome their set bonuses are. Some bonuses are good, some just turn out to be bad.

I do enjoy set bonuses that atleast alter our rotation a TINY bit, or make u think a little harder how to fully utilize it, and this certainly isn't it.

The only REAL issue i have with the balance 4pc is that it is identical to the T6 2pc. Now i don't know if blizzard has ever flatout re-used a set bonus before, but that just seems silly to me.

[NightZero88]

The extension of time by 3 seconds seems a bit useless too me, personally. Everytime you nuke in an eclipse it resets the timer of the dot so the only point in time this would be helpful is between eclipses. However, I've heard that getting into an eclipse from 0 energy only takes like 2-3 casts now so that makes it even worse. I suppose if you're multi-dotting it has its advantages but in that instance why not just dot all targets then cast one nuke on each to reset the timer and repeat until you leave eclipse. Then nuke back to an eclipse and reset dots. I don't see how our dots will ever fall off a target even without the additional 3 seconds.

Can someone explain where this would help us?

[Skyepic]

Considering the track Blizz has I think I'm perfectly justified in calling them garbage. I still play the game because it's enjoyable in some regards but Blizz has screwed the pooch at almost every turn.

Also, I don't think it's good marketing to call your customer base too stupid to be able to handle a neat set bonus and changes to their rotation.

you need to take into consideration the large majority of people who play this game aren't hardcore raiders...They don't know what a class forum is, they don't know their class inside and out, and quite frankly, they're not trying to. This isn't blizzard calling the community stupid, it's just how blizzard tends to operate with their tier set bonuses.

Not exactly sure what you're expecting of blizzard but I find it funny you sit here and consistently QQ without offering any type of reslution. "blizzard sucks because i say so" doesn't really have much validity to it.

[0wn3d]

Ghostcrawler Port :There are a lot of class changes for players to get used to in a new expansion. Immediately jumping into set bonus that make rotations more interesting is sort of wasted design space because players often aren't even used to their normal rotations yet. We typically start an expansion with pretty simple set bonuses and work our way up to more elaborate ones.

Reducing DoT timers though is plain stupid...

Except.... Our t11 4set bonus did change our rotation, and in my opinion was the best 4 set we've had during Cata, and easily the most fun (Auto crit shrooms were the best thing ever... cant imagine how OP they would've been on H Rag O.o).

[Meejum]

boring set bonuses datamined months before the expansion is set to come out have been placeholders before....

[Skyepic]

Except.... Our t11 4set bonus did change our rotation, and in my opinion was the best 4 set we've had during Cata, and easily the most fun (Auto crit shrooms were the best thing ever... cant imagine how OP they would've been on H Rag O.o).

How did T11 4pc change our rotation?

[Juvencus]

@Skyepic : Yes but we get 20% bonus while others get 15, 10 or even 5% bonus only. And considering we will change Eclipses faster, the bonus will be more "active"

@NightZero88 : The 3 extra seconds is a dps increase during multidotting. Celestial Alignment also allows multidotting and nukes extend dot duration while on their respective eclipse. 3extra seconds means more double-dot uptime. Though it wouldn't be necessary if they hadn't nerfed the durations in the first place .

[NightZero88]

Not exactly sure what you're expecting of blizzard but I find it funny you sit here and consistently QQ without offering any type of reslution. "blizzard sucks because i say so" doesn't really have much validity to it.

To be honest, I don't have any solutions for them at this point. For me personally, Blizz sucks because I say so is valid. Because in my opinion they do. They have made a lot of mistakes that have really made WoW boring to me. I still play and will continue to do so because I enjoy playing with friends but only log in to either sit around and do nothing or on raid nights (2-3 times a week). Just because I do that however doesn't mean I have to like Blizz.

The way they have handled everything, the changes that have been made that are the result of endless waves of QQ, the terrible thing the game has become is why I believe Blizz is bad but short of recreating the entire game there's no solution they could do or I could offer to change my view. Also, while I understand that Blizz is a company and is in it to make money, they don't even offer the illusion they care about the customer anymore. Getting a better attitude would go a long way, that is about all I can offer. But again, this is how I feel, nobody else has to agree with me.

[Pokty]

How did T11 4pc change our rotation?

you wanted to have dots up when you entered eclipse because the dd dmg portion of moonfire consumed a charge, and dot ticks were affected by the crit bonus.

[Tinsoul]

Both bonuses seem a little odd compared to other classes. Both have AoE implications - most other bonuses are single target oriented. Had the impression there were trying to move moonkin away from being multi-target specialists, and this seems to run counter to that.

[0wn3d]

How did T11 4pc change our rotation?

In addition to the DoT thing there were some other changse, like never using starfall before consuming the 3 charges, or trying to always get a starsurge (As back then it was our hardest hitting spell by a lot, damn that 20% nerf) as you're first spell when you enter an eclipse for the auto crit.

[lappee]

i'll keep it short
2piece: basic damage increase
4piece: most likely going to affect our decision making, aka interesting one.

[Yvan]

i'll keep it short
2piece: basic damage increase
4piece: most likely going to affect our decision making, aka interesting one.

first!

Kidding aside, I was kinda bummed about our 4pc. Something interesting would be more ideal, such as each Moonfire/Sunfire tick that crits adds 1% to our total chance to crit.