Veteran mobs

[Fencers]

I really haven't fought a mob yet that can't be overcome by circle strafing backwards. I can take out the level 16 elite bandits in Kessex Hills 1v1 which are 6 levels above me. No amount of dodging or magnetic shield can prevent all their hits. You just kite every mob all the way up through the jungles [20-25 zones].

[Squirrelbanes]

Oh definitely. When I use Withdraw or Roll for Initiative, I'm typically also tossing out a crippling dagger to get some breathing room.

It's either that, or applying Vulnerability, or popping into stealth (which doesn't last long). Maybe it's just that dagger/dagger is meant to be squishy, and I have to make up for that when I'm capable of more attribute points and skill selections, but it's bothersome. :S

Yh, maybe it's mainly the weapon choices and skills vs mobs. Certainly sounds like you're using all at your disposal.
It does make me concerned that we'll just have builds/weapons that are must have and "go to" though. Maybe they'll be truly situational, but I hope things are balanced properly and mobs varied enough to mean that 1 fits all can't happen.

Yea, dodging is useful. But in actual practice it serves 2 uses; 1. reposition, 2. 1/s shield wall. Most of the mobs, even in the higher level zones just attack in greater number, frequency and have unavoidable attacks. Coupled with the amount of on screen effects one is inevitably taking damage no matter how quick you are to hit Q twice.

That isn't to say dodging, debuffs and so on are useless. They just are not the make or break many convinced themselves they would be.

Do you think this means the game is designed mostly around other players almost having to be present? For added cc, support and boons. It almost sounds harder when you solo from the way you describe it.

[Lucky_]

Yea, dodging is useful. But in actual practice it serves 2 uses; 1. reposition, 2. 1/s shield wall. Most of the mobs, even in the higher level zones just attack in greater number, frequency and have unavoidable attacks. Coupled with the amount of on screen effects one is inevitably taking damage no matter how quick you are to hit Q twice.

That isn't to say dodging, debuffs and so on are useless. They just are not the make or break many convinced themselves they would be.

This is why I recommend necromancer as a first character with a minion and axe+focus/staff weapon pair. Staff provides good AoE conditions and control, axe/focus is good single target&shutdown and minions provide tanking.

It's probably the closest to "tactical" experience you'll be able to get out of GW2, as you'll find that stuff dies much faster when you swipe through staff skills, swap, and go through axe/focus skills, leaving shroud and dodge as "oh shit" buttons although shroud #4 appears to be a decent AoE skill, while #2 offers a nice control option, so you can use shrowd as a "third weapon set" or sorts. Most of other classes play basically as "zerg until you drop", or "kite into eternity". And melee is just plain dysfunctional due to lack of aggro control.

Basically, it seems that ranged pet classes are all the rage in PvE.

[Fencers]

Do you think this means the game is designed mostly around other players almost having to be present? For added cc, support and boons. It almost sounds harder when you solo from the way you describe it.

Nah. It's just the nature of the combat system. In GW1 skill use was VERY deliberate. Again, that is not to say skill use is without thought in GW2- but the pace, style and way skill work is a bit looser. The game plays more like what I would consider to be an action game. Not good or bad, it's quite fun. Just a style somewhere MMOs [static, hotkeys] and full on console action. It's a weird middle ground not see too often so it's hard for me to compare.

There are fewer mechanical & macro considerations, more moment-to-moment processing.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 01:07 AM ----------

This is why I recommend necromancer as a first character with a minion and axe+focus/staff weapon pair. Staff provides good AoE conditions and control, axe/focus is good single target&shutdown and minions provide tanking.

Nah, I do pretty well as a Warrior and Engineer. The only tough stuff are the gaggles of archers you run into in say, lower Queensdale or the forest hideout in Kessex. It's not really all that tough.

[Squirrelbanes]

Nah. It's just the nature of the combat system. In GW1 skill use was VERY deliberate. Again, that is not to say skill use is without thought in GW2- but the pace, style and way skill work is a bit looser. The game plays more like what I would consider to be an action game. Not good or bad, it's quite fun. Just a style somewhere MMOs [static, hotkeys] and full on console action. It's a weird middle ground not see too often so it's hard for me to compare.

There are fewer mechanical & macro considerations, more moment-to-moment processing.

I see. Sounds very reflex orientated and intuitive. Dang, must get hands on it somehow lol.

[Fencers]

I see. Sounds very reflex orientated and intuitive. Dang, must get hands on it somehow lol.

That's the thing- it and it isn't. Some stuff will just hit you no matter what and there simply aren't enough CDs or dodge rolls to save your butt from all the attacks.

You WILL get hit to some degree. Most of the challenge is simply because every mob has a metric crapton of HP and hits for a metric crapton. There are these troll thingies in the Shiverpeaks that use a great big bash and throw rocks. Easy enough to dodge. Then 2 or 3 are on you, and they take about 5 mins a piece to drop and now your bar is full of CDs, your signets burnt, etc.

That's the nature of combat in GW2.

[DrakeWurrum]

I don't have anything against challenging combat, but I think if it doesn't ramp-up slowly, a lot of people will be turned off from the game early on. Some people have more tolerance for pain than others, and in my experience with single-player games that are intensely challenging right from the get-go, not everybody enjoyed them because it took a certain stubborn mindset to stick it out.

So I'm hoping they adjust the difficulty a bit, or at least make significant tweaks that make the "tutorial" a proper teaching tool. There isn't enough player education going on.

[Edge-]

I think if it doesn't ramp-up slowly, a lot of people will be turned off from the game early on.

Heh, in a number of other games I've heard the complain that combat is too easy for too long of a time at the start and they need to ramp up the difficulty quicker.

I guess there's a mysterious sweet spot that no game has really hit yet O.o

[Squirrelbanes]

That's the thing- it and it isn't. Some stuff will just hit you no matter what and there simply aren't enough CDs or dodge rolls to save your butt from all the attacks.

You WILL get hit to some degree. Most of the challenge is simply because every mob has a metric crapton of HP and hits for a metric crapton. There are these troll thingies in the Shiverpeaks that use a great big bash and throw rocks. Easy enough to dodge. Then 2 or 3 are on you, and they take about 5 mins a piece to drop and now your bar is full of CDs, your signets burnt, etc.

That's the nature of combat in GW2.

That's what I was getting at really by saying maybe it's designed for multiple players to be present...just seems like it from what I've read people describing. When there's more mobs, even if ur alone, it becomes ridiculously hard. Maybe they're still working on the scaling for 1 player vs multiple mobs.

[Fencers]

Actually, it's easier when you are alone! Because it way easier to see what is going on and control mobs. For example, solo as an Engineer I do a rotation of 4>5>3>2>1>swap to pistol>F2>1>1>1>3>2>5. Which knocks out like 4-5 mobs at a time. With other people around the mobs are pulled out of the precise range & radius of my stuns/AOEs and I TAKE MORE DAMAGE as a result.

As a Guardian, I can live a long ass time. A fight can last 1-2 mins with my HP being at 100%. As soon as someone else disrupts the precise use of my walls, riposte and such... spam 6. -_-

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 02:29 AM ----------

Also can someone tell me how WvW works? I been in here for like half an hour and still can't figure this out at all.

[Squirrelbanes]

Actually, it's easier when you are alone! Because it way easier to see what is going on and control mobs. For example, solo as an Engineer I do a rotation of 4>5>3>2>1>swap to pistol>F2>1>1>1>3>2>5. Which knocks out like 4-5 mobs at a time. With other people around the mobs are pulled out of the precise range & radius of my stuns/AOEs and I TAKE MORE DAMAGE as a result.

As a Guardian, I can live a long ass time. A fight can last 1-2 mins with my HP being at 100%. As soon as someone else disrupts the precise use of my walls, riposte and such... spam 6. -_-

Lolz...ok. This is just something I can only truly see from playing I guess. Maybe the better cooperative play will come when ppl are more experienced in the cross profession combos etc or generally just the game being more coop focused (if that's true when it comes to combat and not just theory).

[Fencers]

Well, as I said a few days ago; combat is sloppy. Obviously intended to be so. Anet mean for you [us] to be downed on occasion, to be blind sided or overwhelmed by events which feel like a huge sodding mess at times, etc.

Let's not have ridiculous expectations here; this is an MMO at the core. That is to say, the experience of playing the game is not predicated on the same set of circumstances of Ninja Gaiden or Dark Souls. Though GW2 is not quite as... let us say, formal as World of Warcraft or Everquest for example.

Combat and the type of combat the game promotes is best said to be; directed chaos.

[Squirrelbanes]

directed chaos.

Sounds delicious

[Fencers]

It is indeed a lot of fun. ;d

[DrakeWurrum]

It's getting better at higher levels, but first impressions are still important. I just know a lot of people will quickly decide whether or not they like the game in the first handful of levels... as much as we might not like it.

I mean, I want the game to be good all around, and I want more people to fall in love with the game and stick it out. And thus, less people turned off by the first 10 levels. :P

[Deleted]

Normal mobs - Your traditional mob that doesn't hurt too much and dies pretty fast.

Veteran mobs - Tough to kill, have a lot of health and hurt quite a bit. they will also have extra abilities. THESE ARE OPTIONAL!

Champion mobs - Get a group and fight this thing. it'll take 10 mins at least and quite a few deaths.

[Auguine]

I dont know if you mean veteran mobs or the end quest mobs. the end quest mobs with the amount of people around (Not even doing the quest apparently, just around) had such insane hp pools that it took 10+ minutes to kill them with ~8 people in the same group. I think the scaling is taking the entire zone, not just the quest and it is really borking it. Shaman guy at the frozen lake, looking at you. And the head ice monster thingy up in the far north of the highlands. Just crazy long to kill him and hits for 4500+ on decent gear, with 1800 hp. Hit once? You die. NPC hit once? They die. IF the NPC's are dead his health does not even budge, it was just inansity :P we finally got him, even after he was at 25% and reset to 50% because he wiped us all out in one move (No clue what that was, but it hit everyone, ranged, melee, not in a cone..was just weird)