Reworked Slightly = Totally different pvp rotation?

[Resentful]

They have to buff the rapture dmg anyway, 3k crit dmg is useless or we really need the 9 sec stun to build up 5cp for S&D, rapture, recuperate
yeah im a bit sarcastic but....

Rupture being buffed? Doubtful haha

[Deleted]

The problem of depending so much on a bleed (25% damage!) is that it makes target swapping too weak and...it reminds me too much of Assassination PVP in Wrath with Hunger for Blood.

It's a silly mechanic.

[Mafic]

HFB fiasco 2.0

Why are they repeating mistakes they have fixed? Rogue feedback, subjective as it may be, was that target switching was difficult and tying that much damage to something like this also boring. Well, they have done both mistakes in one swing.

Ouch.

[Eazy]

The problem of depending so much on a bleed (25% damage!) is that it makes target swapping too weak and...it reminds me too much of Assassination PVP in Wrath with Hunger for Blood.

It's a silly mechanic.

We didn't need bleed effect for HfB(Best talent ever)... At least at start.

OP:
It's stupid that we need Rupture or Garrote instead of Hemorrhage. We don't need now Hemorrhage at all...

[Verain]

We didn't need bleed effect for HfB(Best talent ever)... At least at start.

We did for ICC and ToC, so that was over half of HfB's existence, right?

It's a dumb change. If they want us to rupture in pve, then just buff rupture. Doubling it would be a good start. Ok, once it is clearly more damage than an eviscerate might be, now tweak all three specs to deliver the intended amount of damage.

Personally? I think rupture should, on average, make about 50% extra damage above an eviscerate after accounting for all stats in the final tier.

Are they afraid of us, what, multidotting with rupture? That hardly seems a fair concern. Being able to do actual damage with a bleed, though still much less than rip? That seems petty.

That's assuming this change was about pve, which I think it was. If it's about pvp, well, jump in a lake. There's no way that we should have to rupture to do damage in pvp.

[Deleted]

Seconded; If they want us to use it, just make it worth using. Don't make us completely dependent on its presence.

[Deleted]

Subtlety was already in danger of becoming obsolete in PvP but this change + the HaT change could be the final nails in the coffin. At this point you can only ask, what the hell are they doing to our class, do they even know themselves?

[Deleted]

Subtlety was already in danger of becoming obsolete in PvP but this change + the HaT change could be the final nails in the coffin. At this point you can only ask, what the hell are they doing to our class, do they even know themselves?

Which HAT change? The removal of the additional Crit buff?

[Verain]

Which HAT change? The removal of the additional Crit buff?

An earlier build made it only work unstealthed- now it only works when +combat.

[Deleted]

We didn't need bleed effect for HfB(Best talent ever)... At least at start.

OP:
It's stupid that we need Rupture or Garrote instead of Hemorrhage. We don't need now Hemorrhage at all...

Yeah, the original was this :

Enrages you, increasing all damage caused by 3%. If used while a Bleed effect is afflicting you, it will attempt to remove it and refund 15 energy. This effect can be stacked up to 3 times. Lasts 30 sec.

Then it was buffed to 15% (no stack), then nerfed to 5%, but at some point it required a bleed.

[Lemons]

I think this change was made to ensure that rogues use Rupture to keep up Sanguinary Vein as opposed to simply Hemorrhaging every 24 seconds. Still...they could accomplish the same friggen goal by simply bringing back Serrated Blades. Sub doesn't need a three-finisher rotation anyways. I don't think anyone wants that.

EDIT: I was scoping out the talent calc over at wowhead and it has Crimson Tempest's bleed included in Sanguinary Vein...I'm just going to assume that they're correct...so it seems like the Hemo bleed is the only one being left out.

EDIT 2: Checked it out on beta. SV is also including CT's bleed on there as well.

[Deleted]

I don't understand how they could mess up Subt so much.

Serrated Blades was a good idea and made Subt feel different from Combat, but i guess its main problem was Master of Subtlety (as i guess this is why they removed Serrated Blades, as i don't think they want the Rupture's damage to be reliant on the MoS buff). And since Serrated Blades is gone, they needed to make sure Rupture was a necessity and not obsolete (due to bleeds being appliable simply with Hemo, for the Sanguinary Veins boost), then they change Sanguinary Veins to what it is now, which severely gimps target swapping and PvPing in general. Eh? Oo

I just don't get how they think sometimes. Instead of fixing ONE thing, they break them all...
They could've done this:
* Keep Serrated Blades, change/remove MoS somehow
* Remove Serrated Blades (if they didn't like it), and then simply buff Rupture's damage, at the very least ONLY for Subtlety (if they want Combat to ignore/get a very little DPS boost from using Rupture)

What do they do instead? They remove Serrated Blades, keep Rupture's damage low, and then gut Sanguinary Veins so it is really unflexible, which in its process also makes Hemorrhage obsolete in fights where you can use Backstab at all times as your main combo point builder...
What are they thinking? I mean REALLY?